first true leaves deformed?

[jinn420]

Greetings everyone, new to the site but am definetly not new to growing. Just set up a drip/fogponics system and a few of my seedlings don't look right. Their first true leaves look like their missing at first after the embryonic leaves open up. Then they eventually appear but aren't all that pretty. I've had this happen before and the next pairs of leaves to form look normal its usually just the first set that look messed up. I've always tossed em out fearing they were hermes but is that correct? Are they definetly hermaphrodites if the first leaves are screwed up? These are my last few seeds and I wanna keep every seedling if possible and make some new ones. I have some male and female clones but I'm not sure how good the seeds from a 3rd generation clone would be as far as yield would go. Any thoughts on that? One last thing, this strain is a indca dominant hybrid and I got the seeds from some killer dope I got from my friend. The leaves especially in the veg stage exhibit a pattern of small white dots on them. Is this a general trait or does this point towards a specific strain? Sorry for rambling on but I'm a little bit blazed right now

[janemba]

its probably a ph issue

[jinn420]

I'd hope it was just that but this also happened back when I used to grow in soil years ago too. I use a growcheck combo meter and keep my ph around 5.8 and am using ro water and lucas formula. I use the seed towel method and don't transplant them until they shed the seed shell. Then they go straight into hydrodton. But like I said this also happened with my soil grows to and seems to happen to 30% of my germinated seeds.

[jinn420]

Nobody has any ideas? I'm afraid its not a ph issue since the other two seedlings are doing ok as well as some clones that are all in the same drip tote. The two good seedlings are already starting on their second node look picture perfect but the other three haven't even popped up their first true leaves. I'm starting to assume what I feared was the case and that their hermes. This is a pretty bad ass strain whatever it is and I don't want to lose it. I can always pollinate my third generation cuttings I have both male and females but I'm afraid about whether or not thier yield will be significantly decreased. Would my hermaphrodites produce ok seeds? Or would they have a enormously high rate of being hermes? I've never ordered seeds before and although I hear good things about places like nirvanaseeds I'm too nervous to order seeds. I live in one of the reddest states in the country and the pigs pretty much own the place(.........bumfuk texas). I don't have anyone who can recieve the seed order for me and I don't think it'd be wise to order them directly to my house(where I'm growing!).

P.S...........I was originally gonna go with using my 3rd gen cuttings to make seeds but by some stroke of ungodly luck I found these seeds under my bed! They must have been there for at least 2 maybe even 3 years and weren't properly stored or anything. So if theirs anyone who doubts the hardiness of cannabis seeds I can assure you they last a long time.

[janemba]

its bad genetics, it can happen, just because there a good strain doesnt mean hidden or recessive genes cant come out. these things happen, give it time and see how it grows, dont turn it into a mother but u can flower it

[jinn420]

Yeah I was gonna go ahead and let them grow and see what happens hopefully one of the two good ones will be a girl. So would your opinion be that any seeds that come from my malformed seedlings would be messed up too? I guess if turned out to be the case I'll pollinate my clones and hope they can still yield close to what the clone mother produced. Thanks for the input man peace

[janemba]

if its bag seed most likely u will have females since every one grows sinsemilla (seed less). when most people get a couple seeds in the sack its from the plant getting stressed and going hermaphrodite and growing male pollen sacks, since theres no male genes present, the seeds will atomaticly become female. yes this is how they make femalized seeds

[jinn420]

Oh yeah man i understand all of that but i've gotten males too from these seeds so their not feminized. I've grown dozens of sinsemilla crops in the last 5 years but thanks for the idea anyway. These were bagseed originally but I've been growing this strain for 5 years now and have produced seeds several times now.

[jinn420]

I guess I'll be praying to mary jane as hard as I can that one of the two good ones will be a girl. This is my fault I should have pollinated the first generation clones. Hopefully third generation clones don't have dramatically lower yields in case I have use them to make seeds. I think if I'm remembering correctly when I grew one of these messed up seedlings a while back it branched off as though it had been topped right from the beginning. I'll see what happens and let you guys know

[janemba]

good luck man

[jinn420]

Originally Posted by janemba

good luck man

appreciate it bro, I don't think my clones would yield that much less to make a big difference after all. Some other people i've been talking too say a clone taken from a clone shouldn't have a appreciable drop in yield and would make excellent seeds. I have around 50 healthy rooted female clones and 15 males so I know i can make some seeds. I don't know anyone here in texas that smokes( I might be the only one LOL) so I can't get any seeds locally. I'd have to drive out to San Diego where I grew up and get some more from my aunt. My suped up 500hp 95 mustang gt only gets 18gph so that be a expensive trip. Later man

[fridgegrower]

I have this problem right now and what I have come of it is that the seeds are either to old or its a ph problem. I had a batch of different genetics 5 years old that did this to me and died. When I had the seeds fresh the germination rate was astonishing with no deformities but, not with the same seeds five years later. The Ice is making it through and starting its second mangle of leaves. I grew out one like this a while back and usually it just reverts back in to normal growth. What I make of it is that the seed is so old the the cotyledon dries up excessively and deforms the growth. I have had seedlings with just water leaves and no true sets. Also there are plants out there that do have this trait geneticly like DJ Shorts grape krush.