Mangenese def.?

[Wahlly]

Ok so at first I thought this was a cal/mag problem. I tried foliar feeding w/ dolomitic lime- 1 tsp/qt h20. Then I thought maybe K deficiency, so I made this guano tea:

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
5 tbs. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
@ 2 cups/5 gallons of water EVERY watering.

I also added 2.5 tbsp dolomitic lime into the mix just in case it was a cal or mag problem.

I watered last night and the shit is still getting worse. The real bad pics are of a plant that's had this problem longer and the ones that aren't as bad are of another plant that's jsut starting to develop the same problem.

So now I'm thinking manganese deficiency? If so, should that guano tea have helped it? I'm really starting to get worried b/c these are my two best phenotypes and they're bothing going down.

It started at the top but now some of the very bottom leaves are starting to die off.

pH is right at 6.5. Organic mixture- peat/worm castings/kelp meal/blood meal/bone meal/greensand/HYDRATED lime (didn't have dolomitic at the time) then wet with Liquid Karma and composted for two weeks.

I'm on my fourth week of flowering. Bah, please help!

[mordenkainen]

Allright im no expert but I took this out of ed rosendthals marijuana garden saver..

Maganese deficency


manganese deficency is rare and almost always associated with fe-zinc deficencies

Symptoms

Manganese deficency is generally found in the your leaves. The leaf tissues turn yellow and small areas of tan/brown dead tissue (necrotic areas) appears in the middle of the leaf. The leaf veins usually stay green. THe leaf becomes outlined in a ring of dark green along its margins. Too much manganese in the soil causes an iron deficency. In addition the plant shows a lack of vigor

Manganese is not mobile

Mn helps enzymes break down for chlorophy etc...

Problem solving

For fast relief foliar feed with a water soluble fertilizer high in MN such as fe-zn-mn fertilizer. Hydro micros, or mn chelate. Then add the fertilizers to the water/nutrient mix. Compost and greensand also contain mn but they are absorbed more slowly than the water solubles.



Hope that helped.

Oh and by-the-by your pics match pretty well with the ones in the book. So it looks like your on the right track.

[MagniKhan]

I copied this from the sick plant post for Mg deficiency.

"The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil".

Though it looks a little more like a calcium deficiency to me.

"To fix a calcium deficiency you can treat by foliar feeding with one teaspoon of dolomite lime or Garden lime per quart of water, Or Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Calcium in them will fix a Calcium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Or you can take crushed up dolomite lime or garden lime in a gallon of water and water it in the soil. 1 to 2 teaspoons per gallon of water, which will be slow acting. Garden Gypsum, which is medium absorption. Limestone, which is medium absorption, Rock Phosphate and Animal wastes which are both medium/slow absorption. Note: Caution when using gypsum to an already acid soil (pH that is less than 5.5) can have a very bad effect on different types of plants by effecting the absorption of soil aluminum, which is poison to plant roots".

[Ganja Guerrilla]

severe phosphorus def....I also think I see a calcium def aswell

whats causing this?, surely doesnt sound like under feeding, some guanos can be strong .
each time I have had this ...it was ph related, but I have seen lockout from ferts (high P) cause this aswell........ P poisoning


firstly Id like to know how are you reading your PH....water/soil runoff?, soil test?, digital meter or chem kit

a soil test kit would also be in order here to test for excess ferts

4 weeks into flower is getting late , you must get this under controll NOW your yield is already being affected

personally, I would, and have done several times, is to flush all the soil from the root ball with a garden hose and transplant to new soil and water only, the plant will recover from this shock waay faster than you playing chemist

[Wahlly]

I'm measuring my pH w/ electronic meter that also has a fert tester. Both pH readings (soil and run-off) are at 6.5-7. The fert test has always said "too little" until I started watering with teh guano teas. I really never paid the fert tester too much attention since I was growing organically. I also got some Earth Juice micronute and Safergro chelated Mn and put each on different plants to see what happens.

I really find it hard to believe that it's OVER feeding as I didn't feed anything until the third week of flowering. I relied on the soil mix to provide up until I saw these signs. Even the buds on my un-affected plants have seem to come to a halt. And if it is P def then this guano tea should be helping.

I'm starting to think I may have been watering too much w/o realizing it. The plants are in approx. 4.5 gallons of soil and I have been watering with 1 gallon of dH20 every 4 days. Is that too much? Could I have flushed my nutes out w/o even realizing it? There seemed to be quite a bit of run-off but I thought that was supposed to happen.

Also, are there any inert soil mixes and nute calenders that woul be more simple than waht I am trying to do now?

BTW, sorry if it seems like I'm taking your advice, I really am but really am trying to rule everything out first as well.

[Ganja Guerrilla]

that is a heavy watering schedule

here is what I suggest, I have gone thru several meters, and found most to give me trouble at some point, and I truly rely on the chem PH test kit from the pet shop as my confirmed backup test

I would also take one plant as a test & feed it with a general purpose fert ....@ 50% strength
you should see the plant go one way or the other within a couple days

[Wahlly]

Do you have a reccomendation on a gen purp fert? Would the guano tea suffice?

Also, any chance on you getting some pics of manganese def. on that lovely site of yours?

[Ganja Guerrilla]

[Wahlly]

Miracle-Gro... Seriously??

[Ganja Guerrilla]

its what I grow with EXCLUSIVELY for vegging...and I have tried everything over the years... the best hydro juices, to the cheapest organic methods... this is the best growth promoting fert,
but Im very specific about the MG type ALL Purpose and the NPK values 24-8-16 ...mg makes various ferts be certain its this one and do not exceed the 2 level teaspoons per gallon that I have recommended....this IS THE MAXIMUM PUSH ALREADY

those that are having issues growing should try this and your problems should all but go away
seriously I would recommend this for medicine for most these sick plants we see in here but everyone is caught up in their designer ferts with the fancy labels and they paid sooo much it MUST be better

read my posts, if I dont sound like I know what Im talking about with my diagnosis dont use it! carry on

[Wahlly]

No dude I'm listening 100%, I just never would have expected to see Miracle-Gro come up on this subject. It just seems so... Paradoxical, I guess. I will definitely try it.

So you even reccomend trying it now although I am flowering? I will definitely try it for vegging. Would you reccomend just using some inert soilless mixture or should I add some other nutes as well?

Also, what about when getting into flowering?

[Ganja Guerrilla]

I would try one plant to see if they are just not getting enough from your organic methods

I too had this issue then switched to ferts when the sick plants responded so well

I have used the MG with a mix of 70% perilite and 30% vermiculite (really soil less) and had great success and treated the grow as it were soil

your soil is already full of micro nutes unused from the MG during the veg cycle
when I get to flowering I found a fert with the perfect NPK values....& it is not as unconventional as it may seem ....Fertilome also has a blooming fert with very similar NPK values but for growing the herb I found this to be much better

[Wahlly]

Dude, I'm loving it already. Much more simple.

What about water? Would it be safe to go back to tap water since I don't have to worry about keeping the microbes alive?

Thanks for all the help by the way.

[Ganja Guerrilla]

absolutely & a side note

my water is in the safe 6.9 zone & I found I dont need to PH adjust my MG ferts

mix & water