seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help

hashbandit · #1 (**permalink**) 03-27-2009, 12:10 AM

ok so ive lost a few plants but each time i learn from the last mistake. but my biggest seedling is having problems. it started to yellow on a set of leaves and like my last failure, the leaves started turning up vertical with the main stem. my new seedling hasnt gotten quite as vertical as my last one that died but im afraid its gonna do the same thing as the last one. it could be from me over watering it, but im not sure. does anyone know what is causing this? how can i solve this?

Bolthero · #2 (**permalink**) 03-27-2009, 12:13 AM

what kind of soil are you using and did you add any nutrients to it. What is the pH of your runoff water, you may be getting nitrogen lockout due to fluctuating pH

hashbandit · #3 (**permalink**) 03-27-2009, 12:18 AM

my soil is good top soil out of my yard mixed with a little mulch and coffee grounds(a good source of nitrogen for plants ive heard). im not sure what my ph is, but this specific seedling started in miracle grow( which im pretty sure is what fried my last plants.) for about 5 days before i transplanted it. i have been watering every day and sometimes multiple times a day, which is stupid on my part, but ive stopped that. im gonne go pick up a ph test in the morning

bdole420 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-27-2009, 12:31 AM

What light are you using?

What are the temps at the height of the leaves...

I could swear from this angle it looks like it's stretching and possibly too hot? Are you using incandescent lights? If it's too hot, it'd definitely be drying out your soil...

Survey says???

hashbandit · #5 (**permalink**) 03-27-2009, 06:21 AM

the heating vent blows warm air thru the closet consistently all day and temps are about 75 in the closet. and my lighting is all fluros

bdole420 · #6 (**permalink**) 03-27-2009, 07:25 PM

When you say fluros, CFLs or just a regular floro tube? What wattage? What spectrum?

The temp in the closet probably should be fine, but it will still be higher under the light... Even on a tight budget, you need to have temp and humidity at plant level to be able to monitor what causes problems along the way.

The plants still look to be stretching and when you say in your first post that your last seedling to die kept going more verticle, do you mean stretching?

Maybe if you took a pic of your grow space showing the height of everything in relation...

Basically, you haven't given enough information

hashbandit · #7 (**permalink**) 03-27-2009, 10:35 PM

i am using two 40w plant growing fluro tubes, and two 25w cool white bulbs(both sets are 48" long) and one 65w plant grow/warming bulb. pics to follow soon man

hashbandit · #8 (**permalink**) 03-27-2009, 10:46 PM

when i said they turned vertical meant that the leafs all started turning parallel to the main stem. heres a pic of my setup. i use the top of my hand to test the level of the 65w warming bulb otherwise it will burn them

bdole420 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-28-2009, 04:41 PM

I'm surprised no one else has chimed in here. I'm still new and am giving the best answer from what I have read on other threads here, but I think the problem is your lighting...

I think what's happening is that the plants are wanting more light. Reaching up and 'hugging' are classic symptoms. You need to get some CFL bulbs... They're like 6 bucks and give out WAY more light than what you're using. (I got a 400w HPS/MH light setup and spent WAY more than I should have, but oh well the HPS will definitely be worth it in the flowering, CFLs and MH aren't very different in terms of veg... learn from my $$ mistake here.) The perfect setup for growing plants is to have as much light as possible with as little heat as possible. The grow/warming bulb is your main culprit here... not enough light and way too much heat for what you're trying to do.

I know you're saying that the hand test is working cause it's not burning your hand, but your plant is reaching up to the light trying to get some more, but I'll bet your temp around the leaves is above 90F by looking at the yellowing which is not a coincidence by being closest to your warming bulb...

If I were you, in order for this to be a successful grow on all of your other plants in your picture, you're going to need a hell of a lot more light than what you're using. And, again, the best way is to get some CFLs. They're VERY cheap, you can get the right growing spectrum (for both veg and flower), they put out a ton of light and very low heat and are way more efficient with your electricity bill than what you're running now.

Give the CFLs a try because your light is the weak point in your setup right now. Everything else looks good! If the CFLs don't get your grow going, then we'll start looking at pH and soil, etc... If it is the soil and water and pH and nutrients, then we'll get to that, but even if you get it growing, you're going to run into a light problem down the road.

I could be wrong, but it looks like a lot of the light problems I've read about on these forums... Start with the simplest fix first!

hashbandit · #10 (**permalink**) 03-28-2009, 09:50 PM

i think your right, i think it is a temperature and lockout issue. i flushed it last night and im on my way to the hardware store right now to get a few cfls. ill update when i finish updating my setup thanks for the help man, i want this seedling and my two new ones to survive, so its about time i go get some more lighting.

hashbandit · #11 (**permalink**) 03-28-2009, 10:51 PM

so i just got back from the harware store an i switched out the warming bulb for 3 26w 1750 lumen cfls. anyway, heres a pic, hope this perks her back up. any more feedback would be helpful as well

hashbandit · #12 (**permalink**) 03-30-2009, 08:07 PM

bump i need some help here. the two sets of leaves that were beggining to yellow are about 3/4 yellow now and the tips haved developed dark tips and have started curling up around the edges. is this a problem with heat?

bdole420 · #13 (**permalink**) 03-31-2009, 04:31 PM

Do you know the temperature around the plant yet? Good move on the lights, they will be much better in the long run!

Any word on the pH?

The MG probably started to burn it and depending on the pH, it won't get a chance to pull up any N (lockout).

What color are the 'dark' tips? green/yellow/brown/black/white

When was the last time you watered and what kind of water (distilled/nutes/tap)?

Pics? Curling up could be heat or pH (if you look at my grow, I think I'm fighting a pH problem now too, need a better tester I think...)

hashbandit · #14 (**permalink**) 03-31-2009, 06:03 PM

the dark tips were brown but just the very tip of two leaves so i decided to trimoff some edges on the two affected leaves. i think the miracle grow that it started in was the problem. my new two seedlings are overtaking it in growth everyday. im going to get a ph tester today and i only water with a gallon jug of water purified by reverse osmosis. the temps at the level of the plants are between 70-80 when the lights are on and about 65 when theyre off. ill take some pics of the new two seedlings...well the three i guess since the new one popped up. they are looking much better considering they were started in good top soil.

btw

will lady bugs eat my grow?

bdole420 · #15 (**permalink**) 03-31-2009, 06:17 PM

Good question about the lady bugs. Since I am terrified that I might have spider mites or some other bug, I read that lady bugs are actually natural predators of the pests, and people recommend getting lady bugs for pest control, so I assume that they're not interesting in eating the plant... (btw, apparently you can buy lady bugs at Lowe's, lol.)

As for the temps, you're doing really good there!! 70-80F with a low of 65 sounds perfect. If it's brown on the tips, I would guess it's nute burn or pH, although I think the pH problems usually cover all of the leaf, not just the tips.

I wouldn't have trimmed part of the leaf, it's like cutting off part of the skin on your arm cause you got a sunburn... I don't think it'll hurt it in the long run, but it probably wasn't necessary.

Check the pH and stick with the plain water you're using.

They're gonna be fine. BTW congrats on the new one that popped up!

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#2 (permalink) 03-27-2009, 12:13 AM
Bolthero Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Up in the Universe with G dogg Posts: 706	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help what kind of soil are you using and did you add any nutrients to it. What is the pH of your runoff water, you may be getting nitrogen lockout due to fluctuating pH

#3 (permalink) 03-27-2009, 12:18 AM
hashbandit Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: F***in nowhere USA Posts: 84	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help my soil is good top soil out of my yard mixed with a little mulch and coffee grounds(a good source of nitrogen for plants ive heard). im not sure what my ph is, but this specific seedling started in miracle grow( which im pretty sure is what fried my last plants.) for about 5 days before i transplanted it. i have been watering every day and sometimes multiple times a day, which is stupid on my part, but ive stopped that. im gonne go pick up a ph test in the morning

#4 (permalink) 03-27-2009, 12:31 AM
bdole420 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 113	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help What light are you using? What are the temps at the height of the leaves... I could swear from this angle it looks like it's stretching and possibly too hot? Are you using incandescent lights? If it's too hot, it'd definitely be drying out your soil... Survey says???

#5 (permalink) 03-27-2009, 06:21 AM
hashbandit Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: F***in nowhere USA Posts: 84	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help the heating vent blows warm air thru the closet consistently all day and temps are about 75 in the closet. and my lighting is all fluros

#6 (permalink) 03-27-2009, 07:25 PM
bdole420 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 113	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help When you say fluros, CFLs or just a regular floro tube? What wattage? What spectrum? The temp in the closet probably should be fine, but it will still be higher under the light... Even on a tight budget, you need to have temp and humidity at plant level to be able to monitor what causes problems along the way. The plants still look to be stretching and when you say in your first post that your last seedling to die kept going more verticle, do you mean stretching? Maybe if you took a pic of your grow space showing the height of everything in relation... Basically, you haven't given enough information

#7 (permalink) 03-27-2009, 10:35 PM
hashbandit Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: F***in nowhere USA Posts: 84	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help i am using two 40w plant growing fluro tubes, and two 25w cool white bulbs(both sets are 48" long) and one 65w plant grow/warming bulb. pics to follow soon man

#9 (permalink) 03-28-2009, 04:41 PM
bdole420 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 113	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help I'm surprised no one else has chimed in here. I'm still new and am giving the best answer from what I have read on other threads here, but I think the problem is your lighting... I think what's happening is that the plants are wanting more light. Reaching up and 'hugging' are classic symptoms. You need to get some CFL bulbs... They're like 6 bucks and give out WAY more light than what you're using. (I got a 400w HPS/MH light setup and spent WAY more than I should have, but oh well the HPS will definitely be worth it in the flowering, CFLs and MH aren't very different in terms of veg... learn from my $$ mistake here.) The perfect setup for growing plants is to have as much light as possible with as little heat as possible. The grow/warming bulb is your main culprit here... not enough light and way too much heat for what you're trying to do. I know you're saying that the hand test is working cause it's not burning your hand, but your plant is reaching up to the light trying to get some more, but I'll bet your temp around the leaves is above 90F by looking at the yellowing which is not a coincidence by being closest to your warming bulb... If I were you, in order for this to be a successful grow on all of your other plants in your picture, you're going to need a hell of a lot more light than what you're using. And, again, the best way is to get some CFLs. They're VERY cheap, you can get the right growing spectrum (for both veg and flower), they put out a ton of light and very low heat and are way more efficient with your electricity bill than what you're running now. Give the CFLs a try because your light is the weak point in your setup right now. Everything else looks good! If the CFLs don't get your grow going, then we'll start looking at pH and soil, etc... If it is the soil and water and pH and nutrients, then we'll get to that, but even if you get it growing, you're going to run into a light problem down the road. I could be wrong, but it looks like a lot of the light problems I've read about on these forums... Start with the simplest fix first!

#10 (permalink) 03-28-2009, 09:50 PM
hashbandit Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: F***in nowhere USA Posts: 84	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help i think your right, i think it is a temperature and lockout issue. i flushed it last night and im on my way to the hardware store right now to get a few cfls. ill update when i finish updating my setup thanks for the help man, i want this seedling and my two new ones to survive, so its about time i go get some more lighting.

#12 (permalink) 03-30-2009, 08:07 PM
hashbandit Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: F***in nowhere USA Posts: 84	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help bump i need some help here. the two sets of leaves that were beggining to yellow are about 3/4 yellow now and the tips haved developed dark tips and have started curling up around the edges. is this a problem with heat?

#13 (permalink) 03-31-2009, 04:31 PM
bdole420 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 113	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help Do you know the temperature around the plant yet? Good move on the lights, they will be much better in the long run! Any word on the pH? The MG probably started to burn it and depending on the pH, it won't get a chance to pull up any N (lockout). What color are the 'dark' tips? green/yellow/brown/black/white When was the last time you watered and what kind of water (distilled/nutes/tap)? Pics? Curling up could be heat or pH (if you look at my grow, I think I'm fighting a pH problem now too, need a better tester I think...)

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#14 (permalink) 03-31-2009, 06:03 PM
hashbandit Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: F***in nowhere USA Posts: 84	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help the dark tips were brown but just the very tip of two leaves so i decided to trimoff some edges on the two affected leaves. i think the miracle grow that it started in was the problem. my new two seedlings are overtaking it in growth everyday. im going to get a ph tester today and i only water with a gallon jug of water purified by reverse osmosis. the temps at the level of the plants are between 70-80 when the lights are on and about 65 when theyre off. ill take some pics of the new two seedlings...well the three i guess since the new one popped up. they are looking much better considering they were started in good top soil. btw will lady bugs eat my grow?

#15 (permalink) 03-31-2009, 06:17 PM
bdole420 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 113	Re: seedling yeowing turning eaves vertical. please help Good question about the lady bugs. Since I am terrified that I might have spider mites or some other bug, I read that lady bugs are actually natural predators of the pests, and people recommend getting lady bugs for pest control, so I assume that they're not interesting in eating the plant... (btw, apparently you can buy lady bugs at Lowe's, lol.) As for the temps, you're doing really good there!! 70-80F with a low of 65 sounds perfect. If it's brown on the tips, I would guess it's nute burn or pH, although I think the pH problems usually cover all of the leaf, not just the tips. I wouldn't have trimmed part of the leaf, it's like cutting off part of the skin on your arm cause you got a sunburn... I don't think it'll hurt it in the long run, but it probably wasn't necessary. Check the pH and stick with the plain water you're using. They're gonna be fine. BTW congrats on the new one that popped up!