Pulling my hair out!

true_infinity · #1 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 04:05 PM

Hi all.
I've grown before, but never had any problems like this.
I'm getting here-and-there afflictions, and I'm not sure whats causing it, as all the plants get the same water/nute schedule, and some look great.
--
Light: 1kw HPS
Cycle: Veg;21/3
Soil: FoxFarm Ocean Forest
Nutrients: Sugar Peak Vegetative 3-1-5; 2 tsp/gal once a week.
PH: 6.5
Genetics: Random; Picked from fav bags.
--
Here's my issues:

1. One or two plants have a slight yellowing that looks like it originates from the vein.
2. One plant's leaves are curling, almost like a dome, with the concave side facing the soil.
3. Some of the plants seem to drop quite a bit.
4. One or two plants are very bright, lime/yellow-green color.
5. I've recently been blessed with these little black flying dealys. They are only slightly larger than fruitflies, have a single pair of wings and slender bodies. I tried Safer brand tomato and veggie insect killer, which killed them if I sprayed them directly and moistened the top of the soil, but then they came back with increased numbers about a week or so later.

Hopefully these pictures will help.

I moved the light up a bit from its normal distance of about 20 inches from the tops, to get under it to take the pictures, and to try and get a tad more vertical height from my little girls. They dont look as tall as they should be coming to the end of their 3rd week in the dirt, although this is the first time I've used a 1kw light, so that might be attributed to the increased light making them bush a little more than I'm used to.

I hope there is someone out there to help, I was nervous before, but now with the bugs back...well...frantic just about covers it.

Thanks in advance.

dbonics · #2 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 08:54 PM

sounds like you have those stupid little root gnats. those can def cause some problems.

with a 1,000watt HPS 20 inches off the tops of the plants may be to close. i go 20 inches with 600's. what kinda of watering schedule are you doing ? the drooping leaves is often overwatering. plus ocean forest comes packed with quite a bit of nutes, so normally for the first 2 weeks at least. you dont really even need to add nutes, maybe besides a little micro nutes. you can burn them if you feed your nutes to high with that soil early.

as for the bugs, my personal favorite that covers spidermites/aphids/root gnats is neem oil. i use the top of the line stuff myself, 13 bucks for an 8 ounce bottle. (einstein oil)

its 100% organic and natural pest control. you can spray it on your plants, and pour it into your soil which goes down and kills those little buggers at the roots.

true_infinity · #3 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 11:50 PM

I recently heard (for the first time, ever, in my life) that there is a "too much light" scenario. I didn't think that was possible. Nevertheless, I have since raised the light to a height of about 30 inches off the tops. I think some of the extremely lime green-ness may have been the onset of bleaching, and I wanted to lessen the intensity a bit anyway to encourage a tad more vertical growth.

My watering schedule is about once a week, or when I can get my index finger in the dirt two knuckles deep and not have residual moisture on it when removed. I have used nutes the last few times I've watered, but it has been 50% of the listed dosage.

I've also -never- had to worry about ph...everything has just worked out in past crops I guess. So I'm monitoring the ph as best I can currently, after reading up on it, and recently began testing the runoff in addition to the water or water/nute solution that I'm using to water/feed. My runoff ph from one of my really sad looking girls was approx. 7-7.5, and that was when watering with my tap water adjusted to 6.5 with about distilled vinegar @0.5tsp/gal. So I'm thinking (correctly, I hope) that if I adjust the water that I'm adding to slightly more acidic, maybe 5, that it will balance a little better and the runoff will test to the 6.5 ballpark.

Those goddamn gnats, thats what I thought they were! I'm going to try and get some neem, but the friggin Brew'n'Grow isn't open on sundays. For now, I'm going to do the potato slice thing, and see if I can at least interfere with the larvae and slow the reproduction cycle, until I can get some neem and wage war proper.

I really appreciate the input, def. +rep.
Anyone else have anything to add? The more the better!

~t_i

dbonics · #4 (**permalink**) 02-10-2008, 06:36 AM

i normally water when the first inch of soil is dry. i think waiting till the first 3 inches might be a tad to much. i use fox farms happy frog soil. drains very well, not over packed with nutes like ocrean forest is. and i water every 3-4 days.

you should consider using a 3% solution of h2o2 in you watering also, instead of the distilled vinegar. also its a nice idea to have some good chemical flush lying around to use every 3-4 weeks as well. it'll help with any over ferting problems and help keep your ladies salt/nute buildup free. (i suggest florakleen from general hydroponics)

i have a similiar situation with my soil. it raises my pH by about .3 so i pH balance my water/nute mix to about 6.3-6.4 so, by the time it hits the dirt. its 6.6-6.7 with a little room for error.

ocitown · #5 (**permalink**) 02-10-2008, 08:36 AM

Get some sticky yellow tapes and remove 2" of soil as eggs and larvae can resurface in time even after treating the plant.Google homemade insecticide and that could help,heard soap in water spray can help but never needed to try it.

FallenForever · #6 (**permalink**) 02-10-2008, 01:15 PM

you should also only have one plant per pot.
it helps reduce root ball

and for the bugs. try organic pesticides first.
there are a few herbs you can get at a garden shop that will naturally keep away bugs.
sage is one of them, and so is oregano.
be careful what chemicals you use tho, you dont want to kill your plants

good luck sir, I wish you the best

CHEERS !

ocitown · #7 (**permalink**) 02-11-2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenForever

you should also only have one plant per pot.
it helps reduce root ball

and for the bugs. try organic pesticides first.
there are a few herbs you can get at a garden shop that will naturally keep away bugs.
sage is one of them, and so is oregano.
be careful what chemicals you use tho, you dont want to kill your plants

good luck sir, I wish you the best

CHEERS !

I agree,one plant per pot MAX!! Roots will compete and one will be slower to grow and the other will become choked and really not produce much if anything.Dont try to pull it or remove the root system just cut off the plant you dont want at the soil surface and the old roots wont become a problem.

SmknVTEC · #8 (**permalink**) 02-11-2008, 07:43 AM

Can yo take pictures with the hps off. Too much light can bleach plants but, yours are not light bleached. Too much light can also cause heat problems which yours show very little heat stress. My guess would be between your high in nutes soil and added nutes, they have slight fert burn. However a natural light picture would be best.

true_infinity · #9 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 06:30 PM

I've treated with neem, bugs are on their way out.
I've also made some difficult descisions as to which ones stay and which get the chop.
15 plants in 15 pots, and a shrinking gnat problem.

I'll be posting some pictures as soon as I'm home from work, possibly sooner.
Then maybe we can nail down any nute deficiencies/OD's that might be happening, and get these girls back on track!

Oh! to the poster that requested pictures in normal light instead of the HPS. I would have done that in the first place, but the only lights that are in the room are the 1kHPS and a green CFL in case I absolutely have to do something in the room during a dark cycle. The only regular incandescent light has been removed.
But, when i take more pictures, i'll make sure the white bal on my camera is set properly, so they look a little better.

Back soon!
~t_i

Sheeba · #10 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 06:40 PM

dont have that massive fan blowing right on the plants!

or should only be blowing towards the light to keep the heat away from them!!!!

SmknVTEC · #11 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 08:08 PM

Take the picture with the HPS off then and the green light on. We can't see the true color of the leaves with the HPS on and tyherefore will have trouble identifying the deficiency/toxicity.

true_infinity · #12 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 08:17 PM

Here is one picture of a plant that looks particularly bad right now.
Going down to take more shortly.

The fan that's in there is on low, and its a very old and very gentle box fan.

~t_i

true_infinity · #13 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:28 PM

Ok, the bugs are on their way out quick, so here's a plant by plant gallery of my garden.
I think some look good, but some...well...you'll see.
First one is the whole garden, then the pictures are each plant left to right top to bottom.

DSCF0026.jpg

DSCF0027.jpg

DSCF0028.jpg

DSCF0029.jpg

DSCF0030.jpg

DSCF0031.jpg

DSCF0032.jpg

DSCF0033.jpg

DSCF0034.jpg

DSCF0035.jpg

true_infinity · #14 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:35 PM

...continued...
DSCF0036.jpg

DSCF0037.jpg

DSCF0038.jpg

DSCF0039.jpg

DSCF0040.jpg

DSCF0041.jpg

DSCF0042.jpg

Thoughts???

~t_i

ocitown · #15 (**permalink**) 02-15-2008, 02:21 AM

I really dont see any major problem,seems like either lack of light or over/under watering to me.

Also every strains needs for nutes can be very different and all your plants have varied phenos at well,thats one reason ppl stick w/one strain or the same DNA.

Are you worried about the color varients or is it something else?

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#2 (permalink) 02-09-2008, 08:54 PM
dbonics Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 215	sounds like you have those stupid little root gnats. those can def cause some problems. with a 1,000watt HPS 20 inches off the tops of the plants may be to close. i go 20 inches with 600's. what kinda of watering schedule are you doing ? the drooping leaves is often overwatering. plus ocean forest comes packed with quite a bit of nutes, so normally for the first 2 weeks at least. you dont really even need to add nutes, maybe besides a little micro nutes. you can burn them if you feed your nutes to high with that soil early. as for the bugs, my personal favorite that covers spidermites/aphids/root gnats is neem oil. i use the top of the line stuff myself, 13 bucks for an 8 ounce bottle. (einstein oil) its 100% organic and natural pest control. you can spray it on your plants, and pour it into your soil which goes down and kills those little buggers at the roots. __________________ My current grow: blueberry x cinderella99(c99) come on people, don't be lazy if ya like what you see or read, give a brotha some rep

#3 (permalink) 02-09-2008, 11:50 PM
true_infinity Defenestration Consultant Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Forest City Posts: 57	I recently heard (for the first time, ever, in my life) that there is a "too much light" scenario. I didn't think that was possible. Nevertheless, I have since raised the light to a height of about 30 inches off the tops. I think some of the extremely lime green-ness may have been the onset of bleaching, and I wanted to lessen the intensity a bit anyway to encourage a tad more vertical growth. My watering schedule is about once a week, or when I can get my index finger in the dirt two knuckles deep and not have residual moisture on it when removed. I have used nutes the last few times I've watered, but it has been 50% of the listed dosage. I've also -never- had to worry about ph...everything has just worked out in past crops I guess. So I'm monitoring the ph as best I can currently, after reading up on it, and recently began testing the runoff in addition to the water or water/nute solution that I'm using to water/feed. My runoff ph from one of my really sad looking girls was approx. 7-7.5, and that was when watering with my tap water adjusted to 6.5 with about distilled vinegar @0.5tsp/gal. So I'm thinking (correctly, I hope) that if I adjust the water that I'm adding to slightly more acidic, maybe 5, that it will balance a little better and the runoff will test to the 6.5 ballpark. Those goddamn gnats, thats what I thought they were! I'm going to try and get some neem, but the friggin Brew'n'Grow isn't open on sundays. For now, I'm going to do the potato slice thing, and see if I can at least interfere with the larvae and slow the reproduction cycle, until I can get some neem and wage war proper. I really appreciate the input, def. +rep. Anyone else have anything to add? The more the better! ~t_i

#4 (permalink) 02-10-2008, 06:36 AM
dbonics Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 215	i normally water when the first inch of soil is dry. i think waiting till the first 3 inches might be a tad to much. i use fox farms happy frog soil. drains very well, not over packed with nutes like ocrean forest is. and i water every 3-4 days. you should consider using a 3% solution of h2o2 in you watering also, instead of the distilled vinegar. also its a nice idea to have some good chemical flush lying around to use every 3-4 weeks as well. it'll help with any over ferting problems and help keep your ladies salt/nute buildup free. (i suggest florakleen from general hydroponics) i have a similiar situation with my soil. it raises my pH by about .3 so i pH balance my water/nute mix to about 6.3-6.4 so, by the time it hits the dirt. its 6.6-6.7 with a little room for error. __________________ My current grow: blueberry x cinderella99(c99) come on people, don't be lazy if ya like what you see or read, give a brotha some rep

#5 (permalink) 02-10-2008, 08:36 AM
ocitown Compliant420Grower Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Cali .baby Posts: 6,642	Get some sticky yellow tapes and remove 2" of soil as eggs and larvae can resurface in time even after treating the plant.Google homemade insecticide and that could help,heard soap in water spray can help but never needed to try it.

#6 (permalink) 02-10-2008, 01:15 PM
FallenForever Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 60	you should also only have one plant per pot. it helps reduce root ball and for the bugs. try organic pesticides first. there are a few herbs you can get at a garden shop that will naturally keep away bugs. sage is one of them, and so is oregano. be careful what chemicals you use tho, you dont want to kill your plants good luck sir, I wish you the best CHEERS ! __________________ -Growing is a act of freedom. We do it because we are free, regardless of what the law is -

#8 (permalink) 02-11-2008, 07:43 AM
SmknVTEC Moderator Extraordinaire Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 8,084	Can yo take pictures with the hps off. Too much light can bleach plants but, yours are not light bleached. Too much light can also cause heat problems which yours show very little heat stress. My guess would be between your high in nutes soil and added nutes, they have slight fert burn. However a natural light picture would be best. __________________ "I build cars for young men that only old men can afford"- Enzo Ferrari (1898-1988) LED Thread PGAMG Thread MG vs. Generic Soil Current and Legit Seedbanks GC Forum Rules

#9 (permalink) 02-13-2008, 06:30 PM
true_infinity Defenestration Consultant Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Forest City Posts: 57	I've treated with neem, bugs are on their way out. I've also made some difficult descisions as to which ones stay and which get the chop. 15 plants in 15 pots, and a shrinking gnat problem. I'll be posting some pictures as soon as I'm home from work, possibly sooner. Then maybe we can nail down any nute deficiencies/OD's that might be happening, and get these girls back on track! Oh! to the poster that requested pictures in normal light instead of the HPS. I would have done that in the first place, but the only lights that are in the room are the 1kHPS and a green CFL in case I absolutely have to do something in the room during a dark cycle. The only regular incandescent light has been removed. But, when i take more pictures, i'll make sure the white bal on my camera is set properly, so they look a little better. Back soon! ~t_i

#10 (permalink) 02-13-2008, 06:40 PM
Sheeba J'aime Fumer la Pot Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 25	dont have that massive fan blowing right on the plants! or should only be blowing towards the light to keep the heat away from them!!!!

#11 (permalink) 02-13-2008, 08:08 PM
SmknVTEC Moderator Extraordinaire Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 8,084	Take the picture with the HPS off then and the green light on. We can't see the true color of the leaves with the HPS on and tyherefore will have trouble identifying the deficiency/toxicity. __________________ "I build cars for young men that only old men can afford"- Enzo Ferrari (1898-1988) LED Thread PGAMG Thread MG vs. Generic Soil Current and Legit Seedbanks GC Forum Rules

#13 (permalink) 02-14-2008, 10:28 PM
true_infinity Defenestration Consultant Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Forest City Posts: 57	Ok, the bugs are on their way out quick, so here's a plant by plant gallery of my garden. I think some look good, but some...well...you'll see. First one is the whole garden, then the pictures are each plant left to right top to bottom. DSCF0026.jpg DSCF0027.jpg DSCF0028.jpg DSCF0029.jpg DSCF0030.jpg DSCF0031.jpg DSCF0032.jpg DSCF0033.jpg DSCF0034.jpg DSCF0035.jpg

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

#14 (permalink) 02-14-2008, 10:35 PM
true_infinity Defenestration Consultant Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Forest City Posts: 57	...continued... DSCF0036.jpg DSCF0037.jpg DSCF0038.jpg DSCF0039.jpg DSCF0040.jpg DSCF0041.jpg DSCF0042.jpg Thoughts??? ~t_i

#15 (permalink) 02-15-2008, 02:21 AM
ocitown Compliant420Grower Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Cali .baby Posts: 6,642	I really dont see any major problem,seems like either lack of light or over/under watering to me. Also every strains needs for nutes can be very different and all your plants have varied phenos at well,thats one reason ppl stick w/one strain or the same DNA. Are you worried about the color varients or is it something else?