Basic water? 8 ph kills?

[no-more-buyin!]

Help! water/ph question
<HR style="COLOR: #ecfcb2" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->My seedlings (only 4 at a time) keep dying before their 5th node...
They always developed yellow leaves, brown spots, or a bunch of tiny white spots.
At first I thought I was overwatering them, then I thought that I had underwatered them. Then I thought maybe it was too hot, and got the temp between 77-88 F and humidity 50-70%. Stil wasn't helping. These were in soil, actually they died when small roots were JUST starting to show outside of the "starter" peat pod pouch

I tested my water today with a chem test kit.. I found out the water from my apartment was consistently 8.5+ pH level!!

Is this the reason I couldn't get a single plant to EVEN ROOT into the soil?
I'm using my friends MH bulb, 400 watt. And I just couldn't figure out why no little to no growth was going on.
So I guess using the high ph water was killing them, is this most likely true?

I know have some distilled water thats 6.5-7 ph =) so hopefully they will recover nicely.... I hope its the water and not just me being horrible stupid at reading guides... this is my 2nd try. hope they get better

Also, they were allowed to flower for a tiny bit before I got them, still very little. Will they still switch over to vegging alright?

Thanks! and hello everyone
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[ChilliWilly]

hi nmb,a bit hard to tell what killed them (photos would be good), but I think the symptoms sound like ph related so hopefully that is solved. If you did overwater the soil, that would likely stop the roots from growing out of the cube.

[ricslat]

Originally Posted by no-more-buyin!

I tested my water today with a chem test kit.. I found out the water from my apartment was consistently 8.5+ pH level!!

Is this the reason I couldn't get a single plant to EVEN ROOT into the soil?
Also, they were allowed to flower for a tiny bit before I got them, still very little. Will they still switch over to vegging alright. Thanks! and hello everyone

same thing happened to me...8+ ph...luckily the veg nutes that i use bring down ph to optimal level...flowering, however, required adjusting big time...they will reveg fine, i used miracle grow all purpose plant food for veg, but, you will probabally need ph up to adjust your flowering juice...your distilled water needs ph testing too...i would get ph down for in-between feeding watering, and ph up for flower watering...that's what i had to do...gl and cheers.

[BKKG]

The brief flowering period you mentioned shouldn't hurt growth, although they contribute to stress and potentialyl hermaphroditism. But you're right, the pH is far too high above 8, as you're probably aware it should be in the range of 6-7 or so.

My plants bounced back from a pH issue by using distilled water (pH 7) for an emergency flush, and I believe that plants will grow just fine in pH 7 water anyhow (although slightly more acidic water would give you better/faster growth).

[no-more-buyin!]

Keep in mind, these are just babies. I'm trying to get roots to come out of the peat pellet bag and start working into the soil.
Also, what sort of nut should I give for veg stage? miracle grow every other water?
I did test the distilled PH, just below 7. once I found out about the PH problem I did flush them, however I only used approx 30-60 ml per plant since they are still babies and haven't rooted outsde of their "sack". Is this enough to flush little babies?

Thanks for all your help...
please, post any answers or help you can give on the following post,

http://forum.grasscity.com/absolute-...ml#post2016243

it is regarding the same problem, only I have added pictures (you can see how HORRIBLE the stretching and loss of lower leaves is....) just hopin they rebound.

I have nut. for flowering, mid-flowering, and last week (resin development nutrients).
However for veg.. I was relying on the organics in fox farm potting soil (bat crap, worm castings, stuff from crustatians, etc), If you think that soial mixture still needs something to help during veg, please let me know.

but first I need to get the roots outside of the starter cake!!!


again, the post is
http://forum.grasscity.com/absolute-...ml#post2016243

I apologize for double posting, I just didn't know which forum would be better to post in, and I've had 4 babies die before roots grew out, so I freaked out when these were having similar problems and I found out how high the PH was. I didn't want my babies to die AGAIN. plus, the above post has some pics that may help.

Thanks guys

[ricslat]

Originally Posted by no-more-buyin!

Also, what sort of nut should I give for veg stage? miracle grow every other water? Thanks guys

yes...if your water is like mine you won't need ph up durring your feedings...MG balances nice, do some different tests to see how much nute gets your water to optimal ph, ~6.5-6.8...also you are better off here untill your kids are outa the woods...post some pics, you'r in the hospital here and we like to look too...cheers.

Thanks for all your help...please, post any answers or help you can give on the following post,
http://forum.grasscity.com/absolute-...ml#post2016243
ps...we don't make housecalls any more...gl.

[BKKG]

Are you using Fox Farm potting soil now? Because that can be a huge contributor to plant issues at this stage too. I've heard mixed things, but from my own experience I can tell you that potting soil is generally not what you want for seedlings, as they nute burn very very easily. Seedlings just need light, water, and air. What kinds of nute ratios are in the soil you're using?

And as far as the flush, it takes a week or so before you'll know for sure if it worked. But in the case of pH issues the leaves may perk up a bit before then, which is a good sign.

And for the proper veg stage, you can usually add anything that has higher N than P or K in it, but if your soil already has nutes in it you need to be careful not to add too much, as that can cause nute burn as well.

[weedies]

whats the TDSs of your water from the tap?

[no-more-buyin!]

Tds??

[SnowViper]

Total Dissolved Solids but Im not 100% sure on that but guy at hydro store just told me today that it was around 300

[no-more-buyin!]

OK, added photos:
1) plant #1, brown spots, yellow spots, tiny white spots

2) close up of plant #1

3) plant #2, this one has the smallest, possibly fewest, leaves, and has been watered with my extra-hard water longer than the others.

4)Plant #3 This girl is the biggest, however is slowest at showing new growth. you can see some brown/yellow spots on one leaf.

5)Plant #4 This girl doesn't have a pot, but is showing good nice green at the new growth.

6)Plant #5 This girl seems to have recovered the best, showing some nice green and seems to be recovering?

There is a 400 watt hps up above, the pots are 3" for size comparison. You can see how badly streched they are. The roots have yet to really sprout out of the peat pellets... The 4 in pots aren't really IN the soil, simply sitting on top. What should I do to get these little babies to root? I know they are in bad shape, but the new growth is looking good... I think they will just need extra veg time. As for the severe stretching, I plan on doing some LST later... so maybe it will be ok????


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[no-more-buyin!]

uh oh, the one in the last picture has suddenly completely wilted on me and I think its drying up. I gave it some water ecause I know it isn't from over-watering.

Please help, can you tell anything from the pics? Are the plants just in shock from being stretched so far and preflowering??? Also, where should I put the babies to get roots to sprout??? in a small pool of water, what do you experts suggest? I can't get good roots to come out of their baby pouches.

[BKKG]

Odd... every time I click on one of the pictures to see it enlarged, it just links me to a thread...

But anyhow, I doubt that there's much I could tell you just from the pictures. As you state, the plants are stressed from being too far from their light (the stretching resulted) as well as from time with the basic water. Not all plants can survive so much stress, and it would seem that your wilted one didn't make it (although it's still too soon to give up on it!).

I just reread the thread, and I didn't see any mention of a flush. Did you flush your plants after you switched to the distilled water? The reason I ask is because if you were using the high pH water for so long it would've caused the soil to become basic, which kills plants. If you didn't flush the soil with your distilled water, then even though you're not using the bad water anymore the soil is still full of the problem. If you haven't flushed, I recommend it; and if you have flushed I suppose you could try again (provided that at least a week has passed since your last flush at an absolute minimum).

For your root development question, I believe that roots develop best when the soil is allowed to stay relatively dry for longer periods of time (even adding an extra day between waterings can help). Additionally, using larger pots promotes root development and helps to prevent the plants becoming root bound (which could also be contributing to/causing the issues you're seeing now). If you did a flush and an immediate transplant into soil that's nute free in a larger pot I think you might see some improvement.

One last thought for now, if you want to LST you should probably start soon after the plants are moved into the pots they will be in for flowering-- waiting too long with such a long stem could cause some issues in the future. Good luck!

[no-more-buyin!]

I have the same problem with pictures... turn off pop-ups, its a java thing I think. Anyways, flushed them all real good. put some fresh fox farms organic soil to cover them up. Wish me luck!!During Early Veg development, approx how long is it between waterings? I know to weigh with and without water, and to go in knuckle deep, but I just want an average to I know "how dry" or "how light" to kinda go for.Also, the 400w MH bulb was lowered to approx 2' away, may this be too close? I know these have been stressed but their also still litle seedlings that haven't poke any significant roots out (plenty of small ones were starting)... they were stretched before I got them b/c they were simply placed by a basement window by my friend for almost a week after they were gerninated, hence all the spots you can see as it stretched where leaves fell off. When I got them they were preflowering (central midwest... its late fall)., but have slowly turned back to vegging (if they don't die =( )Thanks for any help!

[no-more-buyin!]

Also, I plan to start lst as soon as the plants are healthy enough to bend and it still causing low stress. I figure I have about 2.5-3 ft height above buckets, so maybe I can just have my LST circle be a tad higher. Like a stretched upwards LST due to this start.

Oh, with the MH bulb that close, temps get up to 90. Thats what I was worried about. When I pull it up to approx 1 meter, temps stay between 77-88 (F)

The babies are in 3" organic pots that I am just going to cut the bottom of the pot off when I transfer to 3 gallon. They definately aren't root bound... most roots haven't pushed through the peat pellets!

I really hope they pull through. The dried out preflowers were yummy =-)