can't get past seedling stage

[franS]

<HR style="COLOR: #ecfcb2" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->i've been having trouble getting plants past the seedling stage. they're not dying, just growing so slow that i get frustrated and start over. the strain is lowryder 2, so i thought it would be growing faster. i've gotten to day 19 and the biggest one is only 2" tall. 1st leaves are only 2" across, and 2nd set only 1.5" across and very skinny, with maybe 1/4" vertical space between each set and almost no branching out on any of the leaves. the stem is still a dark red and flesh-like hardness. also the cotylens turned yellow a week ago, then shrivled up a few days ago, but the leaves have still grown maybe an 1/8" since then, so i don't think its dying. i gave it a cup of water every day the first week, then 2 cups about every 2-3 days since. i don't think its over watered because i barely watered the others and the same growth rate occured. the light schedule is 24/0. i also noticed a little light brownish-yellowish on the tip of one of the 1st sets leaves. no nutes have been given except whats in the organic soil. like .2% N,P,K.

i'm growing in sierra organics soil in a 10" pot with good drainage i think, in a 26" x 26" x 14" cab under 70w hps and 46w blue cfl, only 1 plant at a time. i have 4-80mm intake fans clustered in a square in the center of the back wall blowing between the top of the seedling and the hps, w/ 1 cfl on each side. intake holes are 2.5" each fan. there are 3- 1 inch holes down each side that were for more cfl's but now used for exhaust. the temp has been between 80f-90f at times but usually about 83f-86f. for the last week when i go to bed the temp is 83-86, but when i wake up its up to 88-90. i think i corrected the high temps overnight because today when i woke the temp was 86.

this pic is shackelfords but similar to mine in size, minus the cd. mine is not drooping like that either, but actually the opposite, starting to point upwards. and does not have its 3rd set yet and leaves are not as wide. also the edges of each leaf has been curling up since the 1st week. could heat stress be my whole problem?


http://forum.grasscity.com/grow-jour...xperiment.html

his 2nd pic in the thread is the one i'm referring to.

i know a real pic would be best but i dont have a camera so this pic is the closest i could find.

i'm sorry for the huge post but wanted to make everything clear so hopefully someone can help.

thanks gc
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[mister2]

i cant see/read anything wrong with your setup.

Are you using nutes yet?

Hopw far away from your plants are the lights?

do you have a fresh suply of CO2 to the plants (sugar yeast and warm water in a bottle with a small hole in the cap?)

what lighting schedule do you have them on?

let me know

[MaT420InSaNiTy]

Originally Posted by franS

the temps. are usually 80-90F

that could be the problem... 90F is toooooo hot!

plants don't like it too hot, or too cold they like it just right... witch is usually 75F,

....but it could be something else... i don't know... my mother made it past the veg. stage no problem....


good luck man "*Keep trying even if it dosen't make it*"

[franS]

thanks for helping mister2,

no nutes have been given except whats in the organic soil. like .2% N,P,K.

hps is 9"-10" from top of seedling and there is a cfl on each side about 12-18" away. i have an 1/8" thick sheet of glass across the length and width of the cab right under the hps. so the cfls have to be leveled with the hps to be above the glass , but because there on the sides and the plant is centered they are further away than hps. i only added them to have some blue spectrum figuring the hps is enough light by itself for 1 plant. also i forgot to mention that i never lined or painted my cab with anything reflective, but the cab is small and its very bright so i'm not sure that would be the difference.


i have no co2 supply, but the window is open alot in the room and with the intake fans i thought that would be enough fresh air.

its been on 24/0 since sprouting. this is the third seedling i've tried and all seem to grow at a good rate the first 4-5 days but then really slow down. they continue to develop new leaves, but the old leaves are still tiny.

another thing is that i keep the digital thermometer in the pot up againt the side to get the most acurate reading, and it has fallen on all three seedlings by accident. they continue to grow afterwards, but maybe it stunts them. do you think it would be faster to start a new seedling and move the thermometer out of the pot to make sure it doesn't happen again?

let me know what you think

thanks

[SmknVTEC]

Did you use this soil last time?
What is it's consistency?
It is possible to burn them with soil that is too hot in nutes.
I wonder if clumped soil stifles root development as well.
Your side CFL’s are way too far away. Put them 3-4 inches to the sides.
*EDIT Red stems bothers me too.

[mister2]

can i ask you why you have the cfl's further away from your plants than the hps or is that jus a typo?

If not, i'd say to put your cfl's about 1 - 2 inches above the plants or they will do no good (take a look at my journal in sig, my 125w is currently less than an inch away from plant tops because the fan is blowing the heat away )
I've never used hps but have read to have it around 12 inches away, would sort your temp problem.
Either line your cab or paint it inside with flat/matt white paint. You may not notice the difference, but the plants will
Also, what kevin/spectrum are your lights? Are they Blue/6400K? or Red/2700K?

[mister2]

Originally Posted by franS

i only added them to have some blue spectrum

You NEED blue(6400K) spectrum to veg a plant, and red (2700K) to flower

[franS]

Originally Posted by mister2

can i ask you why you have the cfl's further away from your plants than the hps or is that jus a typo?

If not, i'd say to put your cfl's about 1 - 2 inches above the plants or they will do no good (take a look at my journal in sig, my 125w is currently less than an inch away from plant tops because the fan is blowing the heat away )

Either line your cab or paint it inside with flat/matt white paint. You may not notice the difference, but the plants will
Also, what kevin/spectrum are your lights? Are they Blue/6400K? or Red/2700K?

if i put the cfls 1-2 inches away it would get over 100 degrees. i think you can only do that in an open room, not a small cab.

do you think not painting my cab is why its growing so slow? i meant that i don't think that would be the difference in why they were so small.

the cfls are blue/6000k

[mister2]

cfl's give off VERY little heat (especially compared to hps) put them closer.

painting your cab will help though i highly doubt that it is the reason. Paint it anyway

the cfl's are the correct spectrum, what is the HPS?

[franS]

Originally Posted by mister2

You NEED blue(6400K) spectrum to veg a plant, and red (2700K) to flower

their lowryder and can be grown start to finish under solely hps, in fact its recommended. its an autoflower that starts to flower 3 weeks from sprout. by adding the blue cfls it can help during that time but not necessary.

[franS]

Originally Posted by mister2

cfl's give off VERY little heat (especially compared to hps) put them closer.

painting your cab will help though i highly doubt that it is the reason. Paint it anyway

the cfl's are the correct spectrum, what is the HPS?

i tried 1- 42w red/2700k, 2 inches away on the first seedling before and the temp was over 100 within an hour.

not sure about the hps spectrum, but i think most hps are around 2500k.

are you growing in a cab? what temp do u get keeping it that close?

[mister2]

Ah didn't realise you were growing lowryder (doh)

if one 42W cfl is making your cab that hot then i would sugest a ventilation problem. you mention you have 4 intake fans but nothin aout extraction?
You want to bring cold air in from the bottom of the cab and let the hot air out of the top of your cab

[franS]

Originally Posted by mister2

Ah didn't realise you were growing lowryder (doh)

if one 42W cfl is making your cab that hot then i would sugest a ventilation problem. you mention you have 4 intake fans but nothin aout extraction?
You want to bring cold air in from the bottom of the cab and let the hot air out of the top of your cab

do you think if i took the doors off the cab i would lose too much light? i know the temp stays in the mid 70's with the doors open.

as for the cfls, are they really doing nothing that far away? its still better than just the hps by itself right?


would you suggest starting to germinate another seed? then, if my current seedling hasn't sped up any by the time that one sprouts then scrap it?

i have 6 seeds left and would like to germ them all, but if the same problem happens again, then i'm screwed, so i'm doing them 1 at a time. i'm hoping to identify the problem w/ this one so the next one will be good. hopefully its just the heat and that can be corrected.

do you think it could be a matter of the roots needing to grow and then it will take off growing? or, if they haven't gotten bigger by week 3 then they'll prob not going to.

[mister2]

cfl's give off very little lumens, this is why you need to keep them closer.

dont take the doors off your cab, line them with something reflective (here in the UK you can get a wrapping paper that is just like a thin version of mylar -basically chrome- for around £1 per 2 metres) anything reflective will improve light afficiency , basically you cannot have enough light.

either paint the cab flat/matt white or put somethin reflective up, move your cfl's a LOT closer, and keep an eye on them

[mister2]

Originally Posted by franS

do you think if i took the doors off the cab i would lose too much light? i know the temp stays in the mid 70's with the doors open.

as for the cfls, are they really doing nothing that far away? its still better than just the hps by itself right?

put some cold intake holes as close to (EVEN IN) the bottom of your cab for cold air intake (cold air is heavier than hot air). and some holes close to (EVEN IN) the top of your cab (Hot air is lighter than cold air)