severe nute burn?

[dankenstein]

At first some of the bottom leaves were yellowing and dying off which I felt was normal since she was so bushy, but then leaves started to get brown spots and dry and burn at the tips and sides. this traveled up the plant and now every leave is either burnt or has a yellowing tip on it. i have noticed a small setback in growth recently accompanied with the dying of many leaves. Up until recently my ppm was 1700 at the beginning of a fresh batch and down to 1000 by the next cleaning 7 days later. Almost the entire time the pH has been around 5.3-5.5. Temp is always mid 70s in the day and mid 60s at night. Humidity is high 30% in the day and 40% at night. For some of the nutes I am using advanced nutrients big bud. Last week I put her in pH balanced tap water for a day then gave a less harsh nutrient solution at 1200 ppm starting, which is now down to 900 ppm. I have some pictures to help identify the problem. Can I still salvage her? What else can I do to help her recover from being burnt and produce good buds still? She is in day 31 of flowering and is hydro. Also I thought there might be a nitrogen deficiency so I got some metanaturals organic nitrogen and used a little bit on the last nutrient refill. Any advice is welcome.

[wiggum]

What is your pH? From my limited experience, it looks like nute burn. But nutrient burn can closely resemble many things. First off, an imbalanced pH can lead to similar die off.
I faced this very same problem a few weeks ago. With the tips of the leaves burning, that exibits magnesium/pH lockup/early nute burn.
However, that spotting you see...those circular spots away from the fading/burning at the tips...I believe to be a pH problem.
The mass fading, however, looks like either a mag/nitro deficiency. But both these "symptoms" can also be due to pH. What's your fert schedule/type?
Have you inspected your grow medium? Next time you water...immediately after the water has soaked into the medium...look for mites/larvae. You need to look long and close because it is very easy to miss. After you water, scrape the a bit of the topsoil away and look for little white/brown dots walking/crawling around.
If you see none...then I believe it to be pH and not magnesium/nitrogen deficiency because of the lack of upcurl on the leaftips.
Check out my post and respective links

http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plan...h-problem.html


Hope this helps

[chimera]

First your going to be ok. Take a deep breath...there now don't you feel better. How long has it been since you last checked your pH and tds? If is been 2-4 hrs then check both again and come back with the reading. Keep your pH reading between 5.5 and 6.2, I'll include a chart to help you out. It also, has a handy feed chart that you should use as a guide.

Now for any further changes follow the following rulee.

Start with a base reading, once you have it wait a few hours and check it again. If the tds level rises you need to immediately lower it. Of course if the oppisite is true then it is lacking in the proper level of nutrients

If the pH level is dropping then you are probably lacking potasium during flowering or you have to much nitrogen or phosporous(as most flowering formulas are low in nitro its more likely the later). On the other hand if your pH is consistently going up you are likely having just the opposite problems.

One last thing tha I do that seems to help aleiviate some problems is add a pinch of epsom salts each time I change the nutrients, as magnesium is nesessary in the uptake of other nutrients, and most ferts just do not have enough for MJ.

[dankenstein]

I am doing hydro and havnt noticed any bugs in the grow rocks or anything like that. As far as pH and tds goes I check those multiple times daily. For most of the grow the pH has been balanced to 5.3 or 5.4, but every day it manages to go up to near 6 before I can bring it down again. The pH has been in this range for the entire grow and the necrotic patches and brown spots have just recently started. With tds, I measure once or twice a day and generally it is lower than the day before, but sometimes I think that is just because I add water since she drinks a quart or so daily. Sometimes even after adding water though Ill notice the tds reading go up a hundred or so ppm from the previous day, which worries me. I generally change the nutrient solution every 7 days, and also at the same time I clean the entire water tank, pump, water heater, etc. Also the water temp is around 76F and has been nearly the entire grow. a couple weeks ago the tds level was 1780 ppm at the very beginning which makes me think thats what could've burnt her. One of the main nutrients I add is epsom salt, so I think she is getting enough mag, and I recently gave her some organic liquid nitrogen and also the bloom nutrient I am using is 0-10-40 so I may have burnt her with potassium. Thanks again for all the help. Any ideas still?

[chimera]

Yes take all readings before you make changes, Make any nesessary change and retake reading. That way you know what your plant is doing.

Stop adding stuff for a couple of days, just monitor and adjust pH. Your problem sounds like it could have to do with your pH, swings of .5 - .7 daily is not good. Again try and get your nutrients stable. Also, reduce your resevior water to 70 degrees, 76 is a bit warm.

[dankenstein]

So I come home today from work and the water solution STINKS of sulfur and the ppm went UP by 200-300 ppm. Because of this I assume I burnt her with too much sulfur, which probably stems from the fact that she gets epsom salt at every cleaning and nutrient refill, on top of the sulfur in the big bud nutrient, on top of the sulfur in another nutrient. Immediately I drained out the bad sulfur ridden water solution and mixed a fresh batch with just tap water pH balanced to 5.4. This new batch has a ppm reading of 84, so I know she cant get burnt from it. Did the ppm go up and stunk of sulfur because she was somehow kicking the sulfur back into the solution due to being burnt by it? How long should I keep her in the nutrient-less solution? She is about to begin week 5 of flowering and I planned on stopping nutrients around week 6 or 7, so will it decrease my yield if I just keep her in pH balanced plain water for the rest of the grow? What should I do now besides keep a close eye and hope for the best? I feel like I am slowly killing her and it would suck if I wasted 13 weeks to have her die on me right before the end because of my own ignorance. Mostly I am wondering when, if ever, I should give her nutrients again. How long will it take before I notice if it is getting worse or getting better? Obviously the leaves that are already burnt wont survive, and she wont be making any more new leaves, so she has to get the nutrients to produce the buds from somewhere. Anyways thanks for all the advice and I really hope she makes it through this.

[chimera]

I've never had that prob, but I'd be checking my roots it sounds like you might have a root problem. Get some superthrive or trive alive and give them a dose of it if the roots are the problem and hope.

[DierWolf]

Its simple nutrient burn from when you had 1700 ppm, that is way to high you should stay under 1200ppm for hydro.

Inspect your roots for burn as well, putting it at 900 ppm was the good move, dont go above 1200 as you raise it again.

[GrowBot]

Originally Posted by dankenstein

Up until recently my ppm was 1700 at the beginning of a fresh batch and down to 1000 by the next cleaning 7 days later. Almost the entire time the pH has been around 5.3-5.5. Temp is always mid 70s in the day and mid 60s at night. Humidity is high 30% in the day and 40% at night. For some of the nutes I am using advanced nutrients big bud. Last week I put her in pH balanced tap water for a day then gave a less harsh nutrient solution at 1200 ppm starting, which is now down to 900 ppm. I have some pictures to help identify the problem. Can I still salvage her? What else can I do to help her recover from being burnt and produce good buds still? She is in day 31 of flowering and is hydro. Also I thought there might be a nitrogen deficiency so I got some metanaturals organic nitrogen and used a little bit on the last nutrient refill. Any advice is welcome.

1700 is high for me. i keep it 800-1000 ppm. your ph is too low. get it up in the 5.8 area. sounds like you haven't been keeping it simple. you're really complicating things with all the nutes and supps. keep the rez temps. below 70. it seems like you are really going through some peaks and valleys with your ppm and ph. what are you growing in? a bubbler or a bucket or something? how big is it? if it's small you'll have probs. controlling things. are you letting the chlorine evaporate? "when in doubt, flush them out!"

[DierWolf]

yes ph is low, most nutrients are blocked at those levels, keep it between 5.5 and 6, with 5.8 being optimal.

[dankenstein]

Originally Posted by DierWolf

Inspect your roots for burn as well, putting it at 900 ppm was the good move, dont go above 1200 as you raise it again.

Right now the solution is at less than 100 ppm, and the roots look a little bit darker than they normally do. They are usually a beige-white color and now are a little more brown. I have also allowed the pH to go up some from the normal 5.4. When can I tell when I should start giving nutes again? Do you think she will recuperate within a week or so? I wasn't sure how long I should leave her in the nutrientless solution, but I definitely do not want to burn even more. Is there anything else I can do in the meantime to insure she has a good recovery?

[DierWolf]

Pics of the roots, sounds like they are burnt.

[dankenstein]

Originally Posted by GrowBot

what are you growing in? a bubbler or a bucket or something? how big is it? if it's small you'll have probs. controlling things. are you letting the chlorine evaporate? "when in doubt, flush them out!"

I am using a 5gal bucket with a pump and a drip line. I haven't been letting anything evaporate out the entire grow, which is probably stupid on my part. I also am not sure if I flush properly, but ultimately I mix some clearex with water and pour it through the netpot into a bucket already partially filled with tap water and the pump and then I run the system for a day or so with the clearex tap water solution. I am going out of town soon and I am not sure if I should leave her in the no nutrient solution or mix a small new batch. Here are closeups of the most affected leaves that were taken today.

[dankenstein]

Originally Posted by DierWolf

Pics of the roots, sounds like they are burnt.

It is the dark period right now so I will take some as soon as I can tomorrow and get them up. I was also thinking they might be a little brown because the small amount of metanaturals organic nitrogen I put in there a few days back was a brown liquid. How do I correct and fix burnt roots?

[DierWolf]

with NO-Damp but that stops growth for quite a while until the roots heal itself and your too far along to be waiting on that.

Yes if it was a mucky one part brown nutrient thats the cause of the root color, absolutely hate those kinds of nutes leaves residue on your roots.

let it sit in the 100ppm for a few days then slowly bump it back up to normal levels (900-1100) over the next week or 2, 100ppm wount keep that plant in full bloom growing properly and you will start to run into other deficiencies with such a low ppm.