Burned leaves, brown spots, more than 1 problem? (PICS)

fred_light · #1 (**permalink**) 10-04-2006, 09:45 PM

I asked about/showed a problem a while back.

http://forum.grasscity.com/general-i...ed-advise.html

The problem was thought to be mag. def. and was treated with some epson salt. While the plants never really got totally healthy, the epson seemd to help some.

Now the same plants have at least 1 or 2 problems. And my friend is wondering what the heck it can be.

Here is the history so far: Plants are starting 5th week of 12/12. After 1 week in 12/12 the buds was so "big", and looked healthy, that the gun was jumped a bit and plants where given full flower dosage of the Floraseries. Week 2 Hammer Head was added at half dosage, it was given 2 times. The problems started in week 3 and has gradually been getting worse. When the problems started it looked somewhat like calsium deficiency. The soil is also suspected, and a flush has been held back in fear of flooding the plants. But now it looks like there is not much to loose.

Not all plants are like this, some are yellow/burned and 1 or 2 have brown spots on the leaves (I note that later on in the pics). And some are looking good (more than half). It is not the plants straight underneath the lights that are the worst off from what we can tell.

One of the buds is also producing what can be described as small "bananas" that are 1/4 inch long and the banana is starting to spead into 5 thin "points". Possible hermie? Did not get a good shot of it. Will try to take one later.

Growroom stats:

Temp.: 87 Fahrenheit (31 Celsius) with light on, 68 Fahr (20 Cels) with light off.
Humi.: 41% lights on, 68% lights off.

Any ideas?

Some of these leaves are pretty burned.

Here you see spots and burns.

Spots and burn.

fred_light · #2 (**permalink**) 10-04-2006, 09:50 PM

More pics of burn and yellow edges.

Here there seems to be something different going on. Just a bunch of brown spots, with some burn.

As you can see, some plants are fine.

fred_light · #3 (**permalink**) 10-04-2006, 09:58 PM

More pics of "healthy" plant(s)

And last. A hermie?

Ganja Guerrilla · #4 (**permalink**) 10-05-2006, 04:24 AM

I see what I belive is nute burn and it seems to have caused nute lockout.......
potassium and maybe magnesium aswell
whats the runoff water PH?

lets see what some of the others think they see

Dr. Pot · #5 (**permalink**) 10-05-2006, 10:30 AM

Hermie!!! your about to have a 4 year supply of seeds if you don't get them little bananas out ASAP! Sound about right to me GG. Flush with water and try moving the lights a little too so not to burn the leaves with heat from the lights. couldn't hurt...

Other then the hermie and the burn looks great.

Good Luck!

fred_light · #6 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 09:16 PM

Hi, thanks for the feedback. The hermie is gone.

Okay, so today we tried flushing a plant. Here are the measured results of that:

4 gallons of soil mix (perlite and "clean" soil) in a pot was flushed with about a 1/2 gallon water with pH 6.5 EC 0 PPM 0. About 0.15 gallons water came through and was collected and measured. That water had ph 6.1 and EC 1.1 thats 770 PPM@0.7. With the knowledge that soil is watered with pH 6.5 water and EC 0.8, 560 PPM@0.7 it is safe to guess that these girls are over-nuted.

So tomorrow all the damaged plants are going through a large flush. 3 questions pop to mind.

1. Should all plants be flushed, even the ones with no apparent damage?
2. How long to wait before one can start with nutes again after the flush, and at what strenght?
3. Do you guys think the plants will make it, and continue to grow "normally"?

Thanks for the help here.

Ganja Guerrilla · #7 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006, 10:07 PM

check your private messages

Dr. Pot · #8 (**permalink**) 10-07-2006, 09:06 AM

1. If the other plants are handling the dosage of ferts GREAT! Just be careful not to over feed them. (you already saw what it did to your other gals)
2. You said you jumped the gun with a full dose but the fert could also be much stronger. So try to use a lower dose when you think the plants have gotten better. The first sign of new burn stop and Change fert.
3. The damage looks really bad. The damage might be permanent but still a chance to get the buds to full maturity without losing much.

I hope the best for you man.

fred_light · #9 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 11:34 PM

Thanks Dr. Pot.

I have PM'ed some with GG, on his advice of how to locate the def, and dealing with it by sampling.

Later on more samples where taken of semi-flush and we (my friend and me) found that actually many plants had a pH of 5.5 and lower on the run-off water. The 6.1 was more of an exception actually, and pH all the way down to 5.1 was found so no wonder lockouts was happening. So a full flush is beeing done, and some low-dosage Nitrogen is beeing added after the flush. Apart from that only water is gonna be used and some testing with epson salts and high potassium solutions is gonna added later on. Then ferts are gonna be reintroduced slowly. I feel that treating this with to many chemicals is just gonna make it "confusing", so backing off to some basics here is good for the time beeing. Time will tell...
The healthy plants are also gonna get a flush because of low pH as well. They are btw still packing buds pretty decent. I will post some pics later on.

Cheers, and thanks for following and giving good advice.

Dr. Pot · #10 (**permalink**) 10-09-2006, 12:34 PM

I can't wait to see and I am glad to hear about the turn around!

When I'm using nutes I like to use half strength for the first 2 weeks.

(N)itrogen of 50PPM (P)hosphorous of 150PPM (K)Potassium of 75PPM
Thats full strength if my Lady's can handle it. Keeping the pH at acceptable levels is very very important. Now you know to keep a closer eye on it. I like to keep it at 5.8 do you have any pH up or pH down? 5.1 one is low but still ok for growth. Your plants are a little temperamental. I check the pH every day.

fred_light · #11 (**permalink**) 10-09-2006, 06:33 PM

We will see how it turns out.

I wrote Natrium (added after flush) in my last post when I meant Nitrogen. So that is corrected.

Dr. Pot, you say you have a pH of 5.8. Is that hydro or soil? I know that pH in hydro is normally supposed to be a bit lower than soil.

Yes, keeping an eye on the pH not only in the water, but also the soil is important. The plants where feed water at pH 6.5 the whole time. Since the water is "modified" with Hyrdogen Peroxide because of bad quality, pH is always measured and adjusted (yes, have pH up and down) before added. Because of some shipment problem the soil-meter was getting delayed and delayed and is the reason the soil pH was not measured before. But now a:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll..._promot_widget

has been ordered and has arrived to sort that out. Hope it's good enuff.

Ganja Guerrilla · #12 (**permalink**) 10-09-2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Pot

I like to keep it at 5.8 do you have any pH up or pH down? 5.1 one is low but still ok for growth. Your plants are a little temperamental. I check the pH every day.

Nah!........5.1 is acidic! for soil correct PH range for soil is 6.2 - 6.8

Dr. Pot · #13 (**permalink**) 10-10-2006, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganja Guerrilla

Nah!........5.1 is acidic! for soil correct PH range for soil is 6.2 - 6.8

Sorry I was talking about Hydro not Soil I wasn't clear about it.

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#1 (permalink) 10-04-2006, 09:45 PM
fred_light Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 126	Burned leaves, brown spots, more than 1 problem? (PICS) I asked about/showed a problem a while back. http://forum.grasscity.com/general-i...ed-advise.html The problem was thought to be mag. def. and was treated with some epson salt. While the plants never really got totally healthy, the epson seemd to help some. Now the same plants have at least 1 or 2 problems. And my friend is wondering what the heck it can be. Here is the history so far: Plants are starting 5th week of 12/12. After 1 week in 12/12 the buds was so "big", and looked healthy, that the gun was jumped a bit and plants where given full flower dosage of the Floraseries. Week 2 Hammer Head was added at half dosage, it was given 2 times. The problems started in week 3 and has gradually been getting worse. When the problems started it looked somewhat like calsium deficiency. The soil is also suspected, and a flush has been held back in fear of flooding the plants. But now it looks like there is not much to loose. Not all plants are like this, some are yellow/burned and 1 or 2 have brown spots on the leaves (I note that later on in the pics). And some are looking good (more than half). It is not the plants straight underneath the lights that are the worst off from what we can tell. One of the buds is also producing what can be described as small "bananas" that are 1/4 inch long and the banana is starting to spead into 5 thin "points". Possible hermie? Did not get a good shot of it. Will try to take one later. Growroom stats: Temp.: 87 Fahrenheit (31 Celsius) with light on, 68 Fahr (20 Cels) with light off. Humi.: 41% lights on, 68% lights off. Any ideas? Some of these leaves are pretty burned. Here you see spots and burns. Spots and burn.

#2 (permalink) 10-04-2006, 09:50 PM
fred_light Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 126	More pics of burn and yellow edges. Here there seems to be something different going on. Just a bunch of brown spots, with some burn. As you can see, some plants are fine.

#3 (permalink) 10-04-2006, 09:58 PM
fred_light Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 126	More pics of "healthy" plant(s) And last. A hermie?

#4 (permalink) 10-05-2006, 04:24 AM
Ganja Guerrilla www.ganjaguerrilla.net Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,822	I see what I belive is nute burn and it seems to have caused nute lockout....... potassium and maybe magnesium aswell whats the runoff water PH? lets see what some of the others think they see

#5 (permalink) 10-05-2006, 10:30 AM
Dr. Pot Power Grower Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mid-west Posts: 63	Hermie!!! your about to have a 4 year supply of seeds if you don't get them little bananas out ASAP! Sound about right to me GG. Flush with water and try moving the lights a little too so not to burn the leaves with heat from the lights. couldn't hurt... Other then the hermie and the burn looks great. Good Luck! __________________ I didn't grow it, it grew it's self and I just let it happen. Growing since: 1999 Outdoor Grower, Indoor Grower Hydro style: Ebb & Flow, Wick system Soil: Organic Fertilizers: Organic Lighting: 10 spiral Fluorescent, 2 60w shop lights Fluorescent, 2 1,000w HPS Skilled in: Pest Control/Sicknesses, TOPPING, ScroG, Cloning, and Grow room Design.

#6 (permalink) 10-06-2006, 09:16 PM
fred_light Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 126	Hi, thanks for the feedback. The hermie is gone. Okay, so today we tried flushing a plant. Here are the measured results of that: 4 gallons of soil mix (perlite and "clean" soil) in a pot was flushed with about a 1/2 gallon water with pH 6.5 EC 0 PPM 0. About 0.15 gallons water came through and was collected and measured. That water had ph 6.1 and EC 1.1 thats 770 PPM@0.7. With the knowledge that soil is watered with pH 6.5 water and EC 0.8, 560 PPM@0.7 it is safe to guess that these girls are over-nuted. So tomorrow all the damaged plants are going through a large flush. 3 questions pop to mind. 1. Should all plants be flushed, even the ones with no apparent damage? 2. How long to wait before one can start with nutes again after the flush, and at what strenght? 3. Do you guys think the plants will make it, and continue to grow "normally"? Thanks for the help here.

#7 (permalink) 10-06-2006, 10:07 PM
Ganja Guerrilla www.ganjaguerrilla.net Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,822	check your private messages

#8 (permalink) 10-07-2006, 09:06 AM
Dr. Pot Power Grower Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mid-west Posts: 63	1. If the other plants are handling the dosage of ferts GREAT! Just be careful not to over feed them. (you already saw what it did to your other gals) 2. You said you jumped the gun with a full dose but the fert could also be much stronger. So try to use a lower dose when you think the plants have gotten better. The first sign of new burn stop and Change fert. 3. The damage looks really bad. The damage might be permanent but still a chance to get the buds to full maturity without losing much. I hope the best for you man. __________________ I didn't grow it, it grew it's self and I just let it happen. Growing since: 1999 Outdoor Grower, Indoor Grower Hydro style: Ebb & Flow, Wick system Soil: Organic Fertilizers: Organic Lighting: 10 spiral Fluorescent, 2 60w shop lights Fluorescent, 2 1,000w HPS Skilled in: Pest Control/Sicknesses, TOPPING, ScroG, Cloning, and Grow room Design.

#9 (permalink) 10-08-2006, 11:34 PM
fred_light Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 126	Thanks Dr. Pot. I have PM'ed some with GG, on his advice of how to locate the def, and dealing with it by sampling. Later on more samples where taken of semi-flush and we (my friend and me) found that actually many plants had a pH of 5.5 and lower on the run-off water. The 6.1 was more of an exception actually, and pH all the way down to 5.1 was found so no wonder lockouts was happening. So a full flush is beeing done, and some low-dosage Nitrogen is beeing added after the flush. Apart from that only water is gonna be used and some testing with epson salts and high potassium solutions is gonna added later on. Then ferts are gonna be reintroduced slowly. I feel that treating this with to many chemicals is just gonna make it "confusing", so backing off to some basics here is good for the time beeing. Time will tell... The healthy plants are also gonna get a flush because of low pH as well. They are btw still packing buds pretty decent. I will post some pics later on. Cheers, and thanks for following and giving good advice. Last edited by fred_light; 10-09-2006 at 06:24 PM.

#10 (permalink) 10-09-2006, 12:34 PM
Dr. Pot Power Grower Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mid-west Posts: 63	I can't wait to see and I am glad to hear about the turn around! When I'm using nutes I like to use half strength for the first 2 weeks. (N)itrogen of 50PPM (P)hosphorous of 150PPM (K)Potassium of 75PPM Thats full strength if my Lady's can handle it. Keeping the pH at acceptable levels is very very important. Now you know to keep a closer eye on it. I like to keep it at 5.8 do you have any pH up or pH down? 5.1 one is low but still ok for growth. Your plants are a little temperamental. I check the pH every day. __________________ I didn't grow it, it grew it's self and I just let it happen. Growing since: 1999 Outdoor Grower, Indoor Grower Hydro style: Ebb & Flow, Wick system Soil: Organic Fertilizers: Organic Lighting: 10 spiral Fluorescent, 2 60w shop lights Fluorescent, 2 1,000w HPS Skilled in: Pest Control/Sicknesses, TOPPING, ScroG, Cloning, and Grow room Design. Last edited by Dr. Pot; 10-09-2006 at 12:35 PM. Reason: add a little tid bit

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#11 (permalink) 10-09-2006, 06:33 PM
fred_light Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 126	We will see how it turns out. I wrote Natrium (added after flush) in my last post when I meant Nitrogen. So that is corrected. Dr. Pot, you say you have a pH of 5.8. Is that hydro or soil? I know that pH in hydro is normally supposed to be a bit lower than soil. Yes, keeping an eye on the pH not only in the water, but also the soil is important. The plants where feed water at pH 6.5 the whole time. Since the water is "modified" with Hyrdogen Peroxide because of bad quality, pH is always measured and adjusted (yes, have pH up and down) before added. Because of some shipment problem the soil-meter was getting delayed and delayed and is the reason the soil pH was not measured before. But now a: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll..._promot_widget has been ordered and has arrived to sort that out. Hope it's good enuff.