leaves curling down and necrotic spots

[sibannac]

I'm not having much luck, I have just repotted and got new lights to solve one problem, and now I seem to have another. The plants are growing again, and chlorosis seems to be going. I clipped off the older leaves which had necrotic lesions. But the leaves have started to curl down, starting with lowest leaves. Some leaves have got brown spots along the veins which are growing in size (again, beginning with the lowest leaves). It looks like there are various deficiencies, and I know that can be a symptom of acidic soil. I really suspect it is acidic soil, I'm going to get a ph tester to double check. If it is acidic soil problems can I make it more alkaline without repotting again?

Or am I just being impatient, and over analysing? It's only been three days since repotting and a day since the new lights came, but it just seems strange how over about 36 hours necrotic lesions and curling leaves have reappeared. No top leaves are affected yet. Oh and there is some crinkling at the edges of a few leaves.

[Ganja Guerrilla]

As I recall the plants are very young, too young to experience any real defiency problems, you have done an awful, awful lot to those young plants in the past 2 weeks
you have made the changes that were necessary, and you need to give them a chance to recover from the shock of transplanting and the initial problems

we do need to know the PH of the water you are using and the soil PH, before you can safely take the sit back and wait attitude.
A PH that is off on a touchy strain can be an issue that may never stop

[sibannac]

As for the water I can give you a complete chemical breakdown and mineral analysis if you like. It's untreated bottled mountain spring water with:
ph of 6.5
Calcium 10mg/litre
Magnesium 2.2mg/litre
Sodium 10mg/litre
Potassium 2.3mg/litre
Bicarbonate 13mg/litre
Chloride 25mg/litre
Sulphate 11mg/litre
Nitrate 20mg/litre

Am I doing the wrong thing using bottled water? I thought it would be safer than treated tap water with chlorine and flouride in.

[Ganja Guerrilla]

that seems fine,
you should be ok, just leave them alone for a week to see if the transplant and new lites will pull them out of it .
the damaged leaves wont get better so watch the newest growth closely for trouble spots and if they are infact growing again

[sibannac]

Got my test kit today, results are as follows:

Soil (I tested several pots):
PH 7.6 - 8.0
KH 3-6°d
GH >10°d
NO2 0mg/litre
NO3 50-300mg/litre (3:1 pot)

Bottled water (which I have been using):
PH 7.8 (the water company claim it's 6.5!!! lying bastards)
KH 3°d
GH <3°d
NO2 0mg/litre
NO3 100mg/litre (again, water company claim it's only 20mg/litre!)

So would I be better off using this tap water:
PH 7.6
KH 3°d
GH >6°d
NO2 0.5mg/litre
NO3 100mg/litre


So how do I counteract these problems? I have some distilled white vinegar, but I don't know how much to use per litre. Should I just test it and see? What should I aim for the water ph to add to the soil? I know I need to go down to PH6.5, so should I mix a more acid solution than 6.5 to reduce soild PH?

[SmknVTEC]

Yes your ph is way too high. Try lowering it with the vinegar little by little. Try to get it around 6.5. If the vinegar does not work you might have to break down and buy some PH down from a hydro store.

[Ganja Guerrilla]

There ya go! .... follow SmknVTEC; advice

as to wether to use the bottled water or tap water ....thats an easy answer, thier PH was incorrect, and they charge way too much & cause too much plastic polution

use the tap water....let it sit 24 hrs before adjusting the PH so that the chlorine has had time to dissapate.

vinegar works just fine (I use it for swamp water balancing), or you can buy phosphoric acid at hydro shops works the same but the plants can actually use the phosphorus.

when you ( I hesitate ) start adding ferts again I not only recommend 1/2 strength, but work up to the half strength, see what your strain can handel before hurting them.
AND do a PH test AFTER adding the ferts you will see, they will need an adjustment

[sibannac]

Right, I'll start experimenting to get the right solution and when I've got the ratio right I can water them with corrected water. Once the ph is back to normal and the plants are doing better, when should I add any ferts?

[sibannac]

Just spoke to a prof medical grower who has the same local water quality as I do, and he suggested that I actually add ferts to the water as they are often quite acidic, he actually adds ph up because of it. He advised no vinegar as it can be dangerous for the plants. Any thoughts?

I'm going to try both methods, to see what works best for me.

[Ganja Guerrilla]

Im a little lost, but didnt this whole problem arise from nute burn of a new fertilizer, and if my recollection is correct, ferts right now is prolly the last thing you need, the plants really need to recover from all this

SERIOUSLY ferts are not a pre-requisite to successfull grow, your are better off learning how to grow the plants without throwing them into cardiac arrest.

once you have a real handel on this herb and your strain (they are different) then try to increase your yield with ferts, the majority of problems with sick plants is people pouring in chemicals

take the PRO growers advice if you choose, add more ferts again. I just hope you gave him every detail you gave us, including your fert overdose

[sibannac]

It wasn't exactly a fert overdose. My main problem was severely compacted roots, soil type and water retention. I was using the wrong ferts to early, but no ferts for quite a while now, especially since repotting. The alkalinity appears it may have caused nute lockout. Anyway I'm taking both peices advice. Treating half with vinegar alone, and half with one treatment of fert and then vinegar altered water (no way I am giving any more fert than one dose, until the iguana juice for early flower [again, i'm going to experiment]). If things don't work out that well, then se la vie, and I'll have learnt something which I can apply in the future.

Water treated with fert: PH 6.6
Water treated with vinegar: PH 6.75 (going to get this down to 6.5 with a little more experimentation)

Drain off from fert treated water: PH 7.2
Drain off from vinegar treated water: 7.1

So it's certainly gone down, thankfully. Will it take a few waterings for the drain off PH to come down to a more desired level?

[SmknVTEC]

Do you have any pictures of these plants? I would like to see what curling down and brown spots we are talking about here. Vinegar is fine for soil plants, it is dangerous for plants grown in hydro. It may take a few times with the vinegar to get the run off in the proper range. Yes, adding chemical ferts can lower the ph to more acidic but I would like to be sure they are not over fertilized by seeing some pictures if you can.

[sibannac]

OK, here are some pics of some very unhealthy looking plants. The new growth started after I corrected the PH levels and was looking promising, but overnight some of the very new growth went brown at the tips. I've raised the lights slightly incase that's the problem and turned the fans up a bit, or does this look like nute burn even though my tests reveal very little excess nites? Or could it be a genetic thing, or just a stress thing from all the changes that have been made over the last couple of weeks? Should I just get some decent seeds and try again, this time with all the right specs?

[chimera]

i guess maybe ya got to much ferts. When your ph is off the ferts are locked out. However as you bring it back in line with the right ph those nutes are now available, so adding more ferts is compounding your problems. The way your abusing them you'll be lucky if all the fems don't hermie. Get your ph down to 6.5 to do that you need to water with 6.0 water.

[sibannac]

The PH from runoff is 6.6, the water prior to watering is 6.2, as far as I'm aware that's pretty much spot on.

Half the plants have had no fert whatsoever since repotting (an experiment, since this is 1st grow and they are bag seeds) but both halves are having the exact same problem. But two of the ferted plants are doing way better than any of the others.

The levels of nitrates etc in the runoff is fairly low too (3mg/100mls), and as far as I know that's not enough to cause burn.