PESTICIDES that WORK

so.....since spring is here and summer is a' coming (bug season).....i figured i would start a thread here outlining different pesticides that work well. these pesticides will kill aphids, spider mites, mealybugs, whiteflies, thrips, fungus gnats, etc.......


i will not post any hazardous pesticide. the bottom of this post will be dedicated to pesticides to avoid.



pesticides should be applied on all surfaces of the foliar plant this means the top of leaves, bottoms, the stems, everything.


i dont recommend spraying any pesticide after day 14 of flower.




Recommended:


Spinosad - brand names: Captain Jack's Deadbug Brew......Monterey Garden Insect Spray
Spinosad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
spinosad needs to be applied 3 times over (at most) 10 day period. personally, when spraying spinosad, i spray one day.....wait two days......spray again......wait two days......spray again. the problem should be eradicated from your plants - NOT YOUR GROW ROOM. insects are tiny and can hide everywhere - the walls, carpets, the dust filter for your carbon filter.....everywhere! to keep them out for good, you need to use a preventative, which brings me to my next pesticide.....



neem/karanja oil/cake (neem oil, neem cake, karanja oil, karanja cake) - brand names: NeemResource.com - a MEGA site for all neem products....Dyna-Gro Neem Oil........Einstein Oil....there are many more........
neem/karanja is a GREAT pesticide, and an even better preventative. This is a great thread that outlines all the benefits of using neem products. Click here if you are interested! Neem oil should be applied right before the lights turn off, otherwise it is useless. Not only is it useless for killing bugs, but it is also harmful to your plants to spray during the "day." I apply a neem spray about every 3-4 weeks (and add neem cake to my soil), and i am proud to say i have been pest free for almost a year.




Pyrethrum - Fox Farm's Dont Bug Me.....Doktor Doom
pyrethrum is derived from chrysanthemums and is considered organic. it has a slight chemical smell, it isnt my top choice, but it works. apply 3 times over a 10 day period thoroughly.


Bacillus thuringiensis - Mosquito Dunks..............Gnatrol
BT is a bacteria that is naturally found in soil all over the world. The bacteria produces insecticidal toxins that kill predatory bugs. BT has little effect on beneficial insects. It has been genetically modified into many plants around the world.....which i am against....but whatever. buying a product ^like posted above is 100% organic - all you are doing is adding bacteria to your soil. it works great against fungus gnats, shoreflies, mosquitos, and black flies.....to my knowledge it is not known to kill whiteflies.
http://en.wikipedia....s_thuringiensis


Beauveria bassiana - BotaniGuard ES
Botaniguard contains a fungus - beauveria bassiana - that infects soft bodied insects and kills them. it can even kill grasshoppers it is so strong......it can kill beneficial insects, so it isnt my first method of action, but it works. the disease it gives insects is known as the "white muscardine disease." it is a fungi that is naturally found in soil all over the world.
Beauveria bassiana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Metarhizium ansiopliae - Met52 - only pdf.
metarhizum works the same way as beauveria bassiana dies. it caues insects to get the "green muscardine disease."
Metarhizium anisopliae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Mighty Wash - ive never had any experience with it, i have no idea what is in it, but wharfrat74 uses it and i would take his word any day. Mighty Wash

Lavender oil - mix 1 cup of dried lavender per gallon of water. Let sit uncovered in a 5 gallon bucket for 3 days. Stir frequently with a stick. After the third day, you can apply it to your plants at a 1:16 solution/water ratio. apply 3 times within 10 days for maximum effectiveness. the mixture will be good for about a week after the 3 day brewing period. remember to continue to frequently stir until you are finished with the tea.


Avoid:

Avid.
It's half life is two months, so it will end up in your final product if used. It has been approved for ornamental use only, which means it should not be used on plants for consumption.
Avermectin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -- the chemical used in avid.

anything that says "systemic." systemic pesticides can cause cancer.





****i will add more to the list with insightful feedback pertaining to other products. feel free to chime in!****




happy killin'




-OSUB

Edited by OSUB, 17 May 2012 - 05:07 PM.

Using undiluted Spinosad (diluted of course) with one of the Linalool sources as a base for the mixing agent is what I use.

Buying ready-to-use Spinosad is a non-starter as it will not give you the results you're wanting to see. The oral forms for dogs and cats to kill fleas & mites (Comfortis) contain a very stabilized form of this soil-borne bacteria strain.

CQ

Linalool - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Got a thrip outbreak.

Thought it was a fert problem but after noticing leaves on other plants outside (non-cannabis) turning black, twisting leaves that bend up like claws and dozens of dead leaves a day no matter what I did, did some research and started to see a lot of pics on google that looked similar before ending up on gc. Saw a few posts by osub educating the masses, before finding this thread.

Problem is I'm 30 days into flower, with so few leaves the plant looks thin, like a cancer patient. Buds are fat under my 600 watt. Did a foliar spray on leaves and buds with cold pressed neem I mixed myself. Wouldnt ever spray this late but desperate times......

At my wits end. Ordered monteray brand spinosad but will take a week to receive so going to see if I can pick up some captain jack's brew from a local hydro store today. Plants look so bad I've considered chopping and staring over but im close to two months in and dont give up fightin real easy.

Also have a few peanut plants I grew from seed that are being attacked in the tent. Actually noticed the thrips on those plants. Released 4 ladybugs into my tent last night but I doubt they made a dent.

Even added diatomaceous earth to the top layer of soil as a desperate last resort.

Bugs are tiny. First noticed black dots on leaves (feces) followed by leaves becoming thin and almost see through. Already have a fungus gnat problem too....the thrips are whitish/yellow and straight, resembling lice. Ive never seen one with wings and am not sure if I could see wings with the naked eye. When I touch a leaf, the thrip moves lightening fast.

Im 100 percent sure theyre not predator mites, mites, or aphids. Also sure its not a tent worm. Have experienced these pests before but never thrips.

This is my first grow experimenting with cheap lights (not eye hortilux, but 1000bulbs.com), a strain I created by mixing two other plants, and flowering after only 3 weeks rather than 3 months, which is my norm and growing during summer. I assumed since I changed so many variables, the struggling plants were from human error rather than pests. My failing health is the reason I didnt catch these pests sooner.

Anyways, there it is, I'm really frustrated right now.

Edited by pokesmot247, 16 May 2012 - 09:33 PM.

pokesman

Both Monterey and Captain Jack's do not grow and process this bacteria culture themselves. That is controlled by Pfizer (sp?) in North America, i.e. it's exactly the same product

CQ

My point wasnt that theyre different, just that one will take a week to get here and when I ordered, I underestimated the problem. I need something now to fix this issue and since I cant afford comfortis or wait for Monterey, I was going to buy captain jacks as well.

Are you saying these wont work?

Edited by pokesmot247, 16 May 2012 - 09:47 PM.

yes, thrips are extremely common in growing environments....


if you are really desperate and just want to kill the bugs, a pyrethrum bomb or two will definitely help. i have to warn you that you will get a strange pyrethrum-ey smell by the time you chop down, but it will put a dent in their population.


if you get the captain jacks, cancel your order for monterey....like CQ said, they're the same thing (i thought spinosad was created by Eli Lilly and not Pfizer?)....both brands are produced in one laboratory, but are sold under different names.


personally i wouldnt spray too often during flower, but if your problem is really out of control and pesticides are needed than use pesticides sparingly.....i'de wait 5 days between applications.....you can "burn" the buds on your plant from spraying pesticides too often - just the same as brachs get burnt from spraying pesticides to often on poinsettias nearly ready for the sales floor.


dont get down on yourself though man. genetics for a new cultivar of MJ need to be tested, so if anything blame genetics and not yourself . i dont think the light bulbs would make too much of a difference.....besides if you have fat buds by doing only 3 weeks of veg, than thats awesome and more power to ya. ide say you found some good bulbs, for that matter. dont forget to blame the thrips either......the little bastids......


you should see the damage they can do to colorful flowers when left untreated, like gerber daisies.



i appreciate the kind words, too





-OSUB

I was going to apply the spinosad to the lower branches and try to avoid the top buds as much as I can. Should I spray with neem in the same treatment before lights off or alternate between the two pesticides?

Going to be adding some neem trees to my property this year to eradicate outside bugs.

Thanks for both of your help. I appreciate your replies

nice! fresh fruits to use as a pesticide, plus branches to brush your teeth with!


i have 0 experience with growing neem trees, but i would do some research to make sure they can survive your climate (i have no idea what part of cali your from).....it would suck to spend a couple grand on trees to see them die.


do you have access to neem cake? or neem seed meal? if not you can buy it here. just sprinkle a little bit onto the top of your soil.....it wont work instantly but it will kick into effect around the time of the 3rd application of spinosad.


im a "smell freak" and its a pet peeve of mine when you can smell what pesticides people were using on their bud - but thats just me and my pickyness.


if you do want to spray neem, spray it in the middle of your spinosad treatment........like if you spray spinosad for 15 days spray a TINY bit of neem on day 7. i would normally say at the end of the spinosad treatment but since they are budding & on day 30, its a different story.


i wouldnt spray spinosad and neem in conjuction. i never have and i dont know how each would react with eachother (it wouldnt harm your plants......you may just not have as much insect killing power with both combined).





hope this helps





-OSUB

I'm gonna grab some Mighty Wash tonight, the borg has rolled in and I've never dealt with it before. Heard good things, I'm about 4 1/2 weeks into flowering. I'll update with my success/failure.

Neem trees only cost between 10-30 dollars on average. Here is the site Im going to use to order four neem seedlings and 20lbs of neem cake for 90 bucks.

Neem Tree Farms - Quality Neem Products - All-Natural Neem for People, Pets andPlants

I figured mixing them as a foliar spray would be detrimental. Thanks again for your help, ill let you know how it goes. The reason i didnt cancel my order of monterey is because i got 32 ounce for 20 something shipped(gift card i had laying around). Called the hydro store and they want 20 bucks for the 16oz concentrate and 9 for the other stuff. Guess its not concentrated but I havent looked at it. Whats the shelf life of spinosad? I figured a year.

thats a really good question!

The degradation of spinosad in the environment occurs through a combination of routes, primarily photodegradation and microbial degradation to its natural components of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen. The half-life of spinosad degraded by soil photolysis is 9-10 days. It is less than 1 day for aqueous photolysis and leaf surface photolysis results in a half-life of 1.6 to 16 days. The half-life of spinosad degraded by aerobic soil metabolism in the absence of light is 9-17 days. Hydrolysis does not contribute significantly to degradation as spinosad is relatively stable in water at a pH of 5-7 and has a half-life of at least 200 days at a pH of 9. The leaching potential of spinosad is very low due to a moderate Kd (5-323), low to moderate water solubility and short residual in the environment. Thus, it does not pose a threat to groundwater when used properly and no buffer zones are required by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (Saunders and Bret, 1997).

Radcliffe's IPM World Textbook | CFANS | University of Minnesota.


monterey claims their product can last 3 years in the bottle - but i would go with what you said, one year.



HA! and like i said, i have no experience with growing neem trees. looks like i was wayyyy off there, i figured a rare-ish (at least in the US) tree like that would be expensive.


shit, a Dwarf Alberta Spruce from your local garden center averages around $25 bucks in my area!



-OSUB

Edited by OSUB, 16 May 2012 - 10:49 PM.

thats a really good question!



Radcliffe's IPM World Textbook | CFANS | University of Minnesota.


monterey claims their product can last 3 years in the bottle - but i would go with what you said, one year.



HA! and like i said, i have no experience with growing neem trees. looks like i was wayyyy off there, i figured a rare-ish (at least in the US) tree like that would be expensive.


shit, a Dwarf Alberta Spruce from your local garden center averages around $25 bucks in my area!



-OSUB

I'm currently saving antibiotics in air proof containers and freezing them (doomsday prepper) and learned that some bacteria can stay viable at low temperatures for years (7-8). I wonder if the same is true about the non concentrated, tablets comfrey mentioned?

My point wasnt that theyre different, just that one will take a week to get here and when I ordered, I underestimated the problem. I need something now to fix this issue and since I cant afford comfortis or wait for Monterey, I was going to buy captain jacks as well.

Are you saying these wont work?

No - exactly the opposite.

Here's what I thought you were saying:

You want to use Spinosad and the product from Monterey Garden won't arrive until next week. You said that you could get the Captain Jack's product immediately.

What I was trying to say is that both products are produced by a single, specific manufacturer and then shipped to companies (like Monterey and Captain Jack's) who bottle it and slap their label on the bottle, i.e. re-badging

HTH

CQ

Used the Mighty Wash lastnight, seemed to wipe em out pretty good I'll check on em tonight. I gotta say tho I'm a bit paranoid using the stuff halfway through flower. Definitely leaves an oily residue on the plant, smells a bit like a diluted cooking oil. Idk, hopefully it doesn't fuck up the flowers. Also a question for anyone that has used it, did you use the power wash afterward to rinse the plant, use plain water, or just leave as is? The hydro store I frequent didn't have the power wash, and really wasn't too stoked anyway to buy that product. Just not a fan of spraying shit this late into flowering.

^^you should be fine . give em a straight H2O rinse in a week if you're really worried.^^

least that's what I've been told.

yeah it leaves slight film, reminds me of safers soap.

supposedly it's "harvest day safe", and the power wash is supposed to just be insurance for harvest day.

but it is still a relatively new product line .. so we'll see how it fares.

I'm using it also.. seems to take about 3 washes, one every 3 days. Then you're all good. keep up with the Spinosad and neem afterwards ( like all growers should be doing..).

though next time .. I'm only using it for small plants and mothers .. its a wash on the cost vs. loss if I have to treat full rooms I've found ( 1.5 gallons per treatment, per 5X5 area = lots of money...)

I like Neem spray, mixed with silicone...and I don't get invasive species of anything eating my bud. Maybe they 'slip off' after the silicone settles in ...plant grease.

I make drenches with lactobacillus acidophulous, and drenches with earth worm castings for the bacterial level, keeps powder mildew completely away. I would think that this would inferfeer with pests use of the plant too...

Is that pestacidy enough to fit in here tho?

i would assume that any grower believes powdery mildew is a nuisance in the grow room & it should be eradicated at all costs.





-OSUB

Here's a reprint from Gil A. Carandang:

Lactic acid bacteria is also known to produce enzymes and natural antibiotics aiding effective digestion and has antibacterial properties, including control of salmonella and e. coli. To farmers, what are observed are the general health of the plants and animals, better nutrient assimilation, feed conversion and certain toxins eliminations.

Here’s a simple method of collecting this type of microorganism. Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air. Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) on a container like plastic pot with lid. Allow air gap at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space.

Cover the (not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container) container with lid loosely. Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice was to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when temperature is 20-25 degrees C. Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour. Strain and simply get the liquid. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different type of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left.

You may use skim or powdered milk, although fresh milk is best. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria.

You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. Do not use refined sugar as they are chemically bleached and may affect the lactic acid bacteria. The sugar or molasses will keep the lactic acid bacteria alive at room temperature. One to one ratio is suggested although sugar, regardless of quantity is meant simply, serving as food for the bacteria to keep them alive.

Now, these lactic acid bacteria serum with sugar or molasses will be your pure culture. To use, you can dilute this pure culture with 20 parts water. Make sure water is not chemically treated with, like chlorine. Remember, we are dealing with live microorganisms and chlorine can kill them. This diluted form 1:20 ratio will be your basic lactic acid bacteria concoction. Two to four tablespoons added to water of one gallon can be used as your basic spray and can be added to water and feeds of animals. For bigger animals, the 2-4 tablespoons of this diluted lactic acid bacteria serum should be used without diluting it further with water. Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications.

This is a good article:
http://tribes.tribe....58-51fdf4f013ad

Neem discussion might be good, that stuff has some unbelievable properties.