on T break, is melatonin really safe?

[SkunkApe]

I have never heard of a brand of melatonin called "MidNite". If you bought it at a store, it should tell you on the bottle all the really important stuff to know like how strong it is and whether or not it's derived from animal compounds or not. Like I said, stay away from the stuff derived from animal compounds! You don't want to get 'mad cow disease' or some shit! Good luck and enjoy!

[SkunkApe]

Originally Posted by Cork

instead of writing a bunch of facts, ill speak from experience. it works! it gives you some strange dreams usually, but nothing bad. its much easier to wake up after taking melatonin vs. tylenol pm. i took melatonin for 3 months when i was on a break, and it worked perfectly with no ill effects.

Sorry to bore you with 'facts' Cork, but it's always best to learn the facts before taking something. I know plenty of good people who are currently 6 feet under because they didn't think it was important to know the facts before using themselves as a drug testing guinea pig. Remember when Ecstasy first came out and people were ODing and shit because they took it without knowing anything about it?
I try to help because I don't want that to happen to anyone else, that's all.

[deezy]

melatonin doesnt do a damn thing for me. at all. shit even temazepam (benzo sleep aid) doesnt do shit and thats a lot stronger than melatonin. i just have fucked up insomnia. i need something really strong to put me out like lorazepam. seroquel does the trick too but that shit is fucked up, i dont like anti-psychotics.

[SkunkApe]

Originally Posted by deezy

melatonin doesnt do a damn thing for me. at all. shit even temazepam (benzo sleep aid) doesnt do shit and thats a lot stronger than melatonin. i just have fucked up insomnia. i need something really strong to put me out like lorazepam. seroquel does the trick too but that shit is fucked up, i dont like anti-psychotics.

Insomnia can be caused by a lot of different factors. The first thing you should do is figure out what is causing your insomnia. Once you know that you'll be much better able to treat it.

Here's an example of what I mean...My father-in-law was always complaining about having insomnia. I got so tired of listening to him bitch about it, one day I asked him a simple question, "Why aren't you able to fall asleep"? After spending half an hour trying to get him to tell me the truth, turns out he had a groin hernia that was so painful he couldn't sleep. He didn't need melatonin or any other sleep aid. He needed a fucking operation! He's just one of those really tough old fuckers who don't like to go to the doctor, so he was putting it off. Me and the rest of the family got on his ass about it, and eventually he had the surgery. Once the post surgery pain was gone, he started sleeping like a fucking baby. Snores so loud my mother-in-law had to start sleeping in the guest room! LOL!

Here are some common reasons people have insomnia:

1.) Maybe you're not tired. I've seen people get up late in the morning or afternoon, do nothing all day (a shout out to my brother-in-law Ray on this, we call him 'the turtle"!), and then wonder why they can't sleep that night. It's simple; you need to be awake long enough, and do enough physical activity for your body to require sleep. If it's been less than 12 hours since the last time you were asleep, your body probably doesn't require sleep right now, so you just lay there thinking, "Shit, I have insomnia." when the truth is your body just isn't tired. This is especially true of anyone who didn't have much physical activity that day. Nothing makes the body want to shut down and rest like physical activity. Hard work and/or daily exercise are the best sleep aids I've ever found.

2.) Ingesting stimulants such as caffeine, sugar, etc. too close to bed time. A lot of people just don't realize how much caffeine and sugar and shit is in soda, ice cream, chocolate, etc. After I get stoned in the evening, nothing tastes better than a big ass bowl of ice cream! But if I eat it within 3 hours of the time I plan to go to sleep, it keeps me awake even though I don't feel stimulated.

3.) High tolerance to sedatives in general. Years ago I use to eat downers like tic tacs. I went to the dentist once for a root canal, and after 4 shots of Novocaine, I still felt the whole procedure! My dentist was cool, so I told him about the downers. He said taking any kind of sedative, pain killers, etc. regularly makes you build up a wicked tolerance after a while. Melatonin probably won't work for anyone who regularly uses any kind of sedative or pain killers.

If none of the above applies to you, maybe you do have a legit case of insomnia. But if that's so, Melatonin should work since it's the primary chemical in your brain that makes you fall asleep in the first place.

Just trying to help,

- SkunkApe

[SourDieselChick]

if you dont want to take melatonin you could try Valerian if you can find the supplement. i used to take that and it worked so well.

[skatealex2]

Originally Posted by SourDieselChick

if you dont want to take melatonin you could try Valerian if you can find the supplement. i used to take that and it worked so well.

Does Valerian cause vivid dreams like melatonin? Also how does it effect sleep quality? I was thinking of getting some for whenever I t-break

[SkunkApe]

Originally Posted by skatealex2

Does Valerian cause vivid dreams like melatonin? Also how does it effect sleep quality? I was thinking of getting some for whenever I t-break

There are many safe & effective herbal sleep aids. Here's a few of my favorites in the order I prefer them, starting with my favorite...

Rosemary - This herb is most commonly used in America as a spice for cooking poultry. You can make a tea with it that has a pine like taste (tastes much better than it sounds)! Also known for hundreds of years (Shakespeare used it and was often quoted as saying, "Rosemary, that's for remembrance!") to help improve memory, which most stoner's could use anyway. Best way to make the tea as a sleep aid is 1 ounce of dried herb per 8 ounces of water. Boil the water first, when you first take the water off the heat source, add the herb, cover and steep until it's room temperature. Strain with a wire colander to get all the herb particles out of it, pour over a glass of ice & enjoy. I used it for years back when I was a corporate sell-out and had trouble sleeping (because I was a corporate sell-out!). It's perfectly safe to make tea with the Rosemary sold at grocery store's as a spice, although this will get expensive. The good news is this is a very hardy, easy to grow herb. So if you try it and like it, buy some Rosemary seeds from any online herb store and grow your own. Fresh herbs always have the greatest medicinal value anyway.

I made this tea for a very heavy drug using biker once who came to me for help when he was having trouble sleeping because he went cold turkey on all drugs at once. It took me days to convince him to try it (strange how so many drug users who will try anything to get high, but are reluctant to try something that's actually good for them!). He told me the next day that was the best sleep he's had in years. He actually apologized (this guy wouldn't apologize for fucking your mother) for making fun of me in the past for being into herbs as an alternative to modern medicine!

Kava Kava (root) - A Hawaiian shrub used for hundreds of years ceremonially by native Hawaiians for it's narcotic properties. Be advised heavy and/or extended Kava Kava use can cause liver damage, which is why the wise Hawaiians only use it occasionally. As I always say "do your homework and make sure you are using something new properly before trying it out for the first time"! For sleep, add 1 ounce of bulk Kava Kava root (looks like white wood chips) to 16 ounces of water, heat to boiling, then remove from heat. Once it cools, drink and enjoy! Really traditional Kava users will use coconut milk instead of water (tastes awesome!) Kava tea will numb your throat like coke, which gives you an idea of how strong it is! Wanna make a fun alcoholic beverage at a party? Prepare according to the directions above using coconut milk. Once it cools, fill a glass with ice, add an ounce or two of coconut flavored rum, and fill the rest of the way with the Kava Kava tea. Warning, you may have a big sleep over on your hands because this drink will mello folks out so much they won't want to drive home! A great alcoholic beverage to accompany your favorite weed!

Valerian - Also great for sleep, although I've never seen it knock someone out the way Rosemary or Kava Kava does. Valerian root is the part of the plant most commonly used medicinally. You won't find this at the grocery store as a spice, and it's not a plant that grows itself (gotta have a green thumb and the right climate). But it is easy to purchase from online web stores in bulk form or in pills.

Lavendar - Used a lot in aromatherapy for it's calming effect, it also makes a good tea for insomnia, especially when mixed with Valerian root. Even when mixed with Valerian root, IMHO not as strong as Kava Kava tea or even Rosemary tea. Most people prefer Lavendar & Valerian root tea for sleep because of it's pleasant taste (medicinal herbal teas can taste nasty to someone who isn't used to them).

* A great online store for buying herbs and getting information on how to use them properly is Iherb.com Do yourself a favor and check it out.*

Hope this helps,

- SkunkApe

[deezy]

Originally Posted by SkunkApe

Insomnia can be caused by a lot of different factors. The first thing you should do is figure out what is causing your insomnia. Once you know that you'll be much better able to treat it.

- SkunkApe

i have a ton of stress in my life life thats why i cant sleep and i get panic attacks every night. but im stuck in a situation that i cant get out of and i just have to wait out. ive also tried valerian and it didnt do shit either. weed actually helps a great deal but i have no hookups at the moment and no real way of finding any (i dont know anybody in this town, the laws are strict around here so people wont usually sell to you if they dont know you, etc). and i cant just randomly go up to someone and be like "hey be my friend". its different when youre in school and you have classes with people (we cant afford school anymore and besides i already missed registration). so basically im stuck right now but hopefully it will work itself out sooner or later.

[SourDieselChick]

Originally Posted by skatealex2

Does Valerian cause vivid dreams like melatonin? Also how does it effect sleep quality? I was thinking of getting some for whenever I t-break

i never had any problem with dreams when i took valerian.

[ibowl]

Skunkape,

Thanks for all this great advise, i sometimes have trouble sleeping, even when i smoke, sometimes even smoking will keep me up ive noticed. I usually try to get a ton of exercise during the day to make me pass out. Sometimes it helps other times not. I never take caffeine after 12 noon anyway and dont eat sweet things before bed. Sometimes though it just seems like there is absolutely no reason that i shouldnt be asleep. Maybe some of the things youve brought up here will help me, such as rosemary tea. I do wonder though whether smoking everday for the past 2 years has made it harder for me to get to sleep? Maybe something to do with my sleep receptors? A doctor once said that MJ can mess up your sleep receptors and make it hard to go to sleep permanently, i was just wondering if you had any experience with this? Thanks Man

Ibowl

[NcExpress]

melatonin has always been good to me . i just took some last night when i was rollin and wanted to sleep ..im alive!

only bad thing is if you stay awake wen it kiks in ur in for one bad ass headache

[COOOL]

Skunkape much love for the info...

I been taking melatonin for like 4 months now maybe cuz i love the fuckin dreams...there so vivid and its almost every morning i wake up and remember them!! lol...but anyways i been takin usually only 6mg but sometimes ill take 9mg..

I have kava kava too but i never really noticed any effects from it. It says the pill has 30% kavalactones, and its a 250mg pill. The bottle says take 1 to 3 times daily as needed, for relaxation...not to exceed 4 weeks taking it. Ive taken like 3 at once and didnt notice much. Maybe ill find some different pills, sounds like a cool herb.

I also jus finished off a bottle of valerian that i have had for a while..didnt notice much with that either...

[skatealex2]

Anyone find that melatonin gives them a short sleep like 4-5 hours? or maybe that happens when i mix it with weed.

[nugsNbeer]

melatonin just resets your natural clock, it is not a sleep aid. Although it can help reduce jet lag. If you want to try and understand why we dream and what melatonin's function is read on.

this paper is more about the pineal gland and its function. But it will provide you with a theory on why we dream.

You also have to remember your psyche has a great impact on how you live. If you are trying to feel the affects of kava kava then maybe you took it for the wrong reason.
Kava kava root will provide help the user remember their dreams as well as make them more vivid, generally speaking the same goes for when taking Kava Kava root with a psychedelic compound such as mushrooms.

As skunkape already stated, regular use not only will raise your tolerance, but it also can be harmful to your health. Your body has natural functions, like naturally occurring melatonin. If you start messing with that balance by ingesting melatonin or other substances then your body becomes dependent on the intake of such substances and will decrease its own natural production. So in the long run you might be making yourself dependent on ingesting substances that your body took care of on its own before.

Think, research and ask questions before you start popping pills.

(+ rep to skunkape for all of the valuable information)

DMT a Spirit Within

Deep within the center of our brains lies a gland unlike the rest. The pineal gland is formed out of tissue from the top of the mouth 49 days after conception the same time that gender becomes apparent. As the fetus grows the gland moves towards the center of the brain. In animals the gland is said to be a ‘third eye’ that senses light letting the animal know when it is breeding season. What is this gland’s function in humans? Previous western beliefs state that the pineal gland was an evolutionary afterthought, a remnant of our evolutionary history. However new light has been shed on the mystery of the pineal gland with the discovery of its melatonin producing properties. Is that it? Is melatonin the reason of the pineal gland, or does it hold a deeper purpose?

In the search for a deeper understanding of what the pineal gland does Dr. Rick Strassman conducted several experiments using melatonin. He wanted to see if melatonin was the spirit molecule, which drives us humans. However the theory of melatonin possessing psychedelic properties was thrown out when the nurse accidentally administered almost 10 times the amount of melatonin to the test subject. All that was induced from this high dose was a supper sleepy state during which the subject could barely keep his eyes open and focus on the aptitude test. Strassman realized that melatonin was not the spirit molecule he was looking for. There must be something else.

Dr. Stassman understood the building blocks required to produce a psychedelic compound, and he found that they exists within the pineal gland. DMT or dimethyltryptamine is a powerful psychedelic, which induces open eye visuals, extreme shifts in perspectives, and spiritual life altering experiences. This molecule holds vast teaching power and released in small amounts in our brain can help explain why we see our “life flash before our eyes” during near death experiences, or why we dream things that feel so real.

Strassman theorized that the formation of DMT in the pineal gland is possible if there are four key elements present. First of all he states that the pineal gland must have a cellular security system around itself, which it does. For example, “stress-related surges of adrenal-gland adrenaline and noradrenaline secreted into the blood never get to the pineal” (Strassman, 2001). Furthermore the pineal gland is not made of brain tissue, and therefore does not share the same circulatory systems. Secondly there must be presence of an anti-DMT compound in the pineal gland. Strassman found high levels of “a particular kind of small protein, a sort of ‘anti-DMT’” (Strassman, 2001) in the pineal gland. It seems only natural to have this anti-DMT protein in the same area where DMT is formed to act as a safety net and protect the mammal from excessive DMT formation.
Thirdly there would need to be a low activity of methyltransferase enzymes that produce DMT. Finally there would also have to be the presence of monoamine oxidase enzymes or the MAO system, which breaks down DMT. It has been proven that people suffering from schizophrenia have more active methyltransferase enzymes which raises the formation of DMT. Also schizophrenics have a less efficient MAO system, which means they “do not clear DMT quickly enough from their systems” (Strassman, 2001). Research further supports this theory, in the 1960’s “individuals with schizophrenia received pineal gland extracts… their symptoms improved markedly” (Strassman, 2001). The study explained that the pineal gland extracts given to the individuals supplied them with the “anti-DMT” their glands lacked, therefore their symptoms improved.

So how would this substance influence and affect us? Well in the case of near death experiences (NDE) Strassman discovered similarities in peoples DMT experiences to those who have had a NDE. Sara stated that during one of her high dose DMT experiments that she felt “her consciousness separate from her body, she moved rapidly through a tunnel, or tunnels, toward a warm, loving, all-knowing white light” (Strassman, 2001). Sara later told Dr. Strassman that reading books about near death experiences was “like reviewing her own DMT sessions” (Strassman, 2001). The presence of a psychedelic chemical being the “spirit molecule” amongst life forms seems like a plausible explanation for mystical experiences when all of the facts are on the table. However due to the lack of studies in this area we still are unsure. Further studies need to be conducted to measure the levels of anti-DMT, methyltransferase enzymes, as well as monoamine oxidase enzymes during NDE’s. or mystical states.

Our understanding of mind and consciousness is still very limited, we need to dive deeper into these questions if we want answers. Unfortunately the anti-drug stigma that plagues the U.S. makes raising support to try and understand the chemical happenings of our brains extremely difficult. People need to face the facts and realize that all drugs are not bad, and that some correctly administered drugs can help us obtain some valuable insight into our spiritual realm. The fact that we might have naturally occurring DMT production in our brains, one of the most potent psychedelic chemicals know to man, might frighten some who feel that all drugs are evil. We need to approach the concept of spiritual consciousness openly and inquisitively. At this point we should not rule anything out without reasonable proof, not enough research has been done to come to an agreeable conclusion. This world is filled with uncertainties, no one knows everything, and nothing is impossible.

After all it is human nature to discover new ideas and concepts that modify our perception of reality. I believe that all life forms contain a spirit, but what constitutes this soul is currently unknown. Hallucinogenic tryptamines and DMT have been found in many mammals including humans, it has also “been identified in over 19 higher plant families and higher fungi” (McKenna, 2001). This would suggest that plants too have spirits. D.M. Turner reported that when he tried DMT in a desert he had terrifying experiences in which he “felt a deep fear which is hard to speak of… [he] sensed the presence of death, despair, and loneliness” (Turner, 2007). Many people who have tried DMT in a waterless environment have reported these same sensations of fear, death and loneliness. Turner also interviewed friends and colleagues who tried DMT near water and over 75% of them reported the most enchanting experiences of their lives, furthermore “a few people reported experiences too intense to enjoy when using DMT in the presence of fire”(Turner, 2007). Why is this?

Life on Earth originated from the oceans, and all life as we know it depends on water, could there be a connection? More than 60% of our body’s mass is made up of water, our continued life depends on it, from this perspective it’s easy to see the connection. I believe that DMT is the spirit of life in mammals, and plants. The terrifying experiences related to DMT usage in waterless environments as well as the enlightening mystical journeys when used near water supports this idea. Our spirit craves water, if water is absent so is life.

Work Cited

McKenna, D., Ph.D. (2001, September 5). DMT - Nature's Ubiquitous Hallucinogen. In Lycaeum. Retrieved April 30, 2008, from http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16837

Stassman, R., M.D. (2001). DMT The Spirit Molecule. Rochester Vermont: Park Street Press.

Turner, D. M. (2007, April 24). A MAGICAL LINK. In DMT ~ WATER SPIRIT.
Retrieved April 30, 2008, from Erowid Vaults Web site:
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_...r-spirit.shtml

[twistpro420]

try amitriptyline. great for sleeping. great when combined with lsd, but also very unsafe, or so i've read