"An Inconvenient Truth"

[AK Infinity]

Let's not use the word "fear" then, let's use the words "shared responsibility" instead because we should all accept some for how we each impact the world. As interesting as a concept as "green" profiteering might be it's the big polluters that are laughing all the way to the bank, they're betting on the general cynicism and skepticism of the population to continue to fill their coffers and the air with their materialism.

"The fact of the matter is, no one knows for sure if global warming is for real."

~pemberton~

Thanks for doing your part bro but I would seriously reconsider the data if I were you because the exact opposite of what you're saying is true. Researchers are actually pretty unanimous about whether or not there is global warming, what's really at issue is whether people will be stirred enough to believe it for themselves. Also, could you pm me or post this thread with some of the evidence that has you confused about this phenomenon? I'm very interested to see what put you on the fence.

Lastly:

"War, poverty, disease, racism, etc should not take a back seat to anything."

~pemberton~

I submit to you that these things are happening in the world because man is losing his connection to mother earth, and are in fact not separate issues but part of the greater problem of our relationship with this world.

Stay green!

[Digit]

Originally Posted by Ebinezer02:4

ok people, if you say so. but why is Gore doing this? i havent really checked, but i dont think hes an expert on this. somewhere, someone really knows whats going on based on the research they have done. gore has nothing to do with it and just wants to gain a little popularity.

um... he's been an environmentalist since the 80s... probably before... i suspect he mighta been a hippie. he does know his stuff. he advised clinton on the environment and shaped his policies and has been a familiar face on numerous fancy bigwig meetings on the environment. the guy does and has done and is doing his research. i think you're just trying to cast doubt to gain a little.... i dunno... why are you doing that? to convince yourself that the climate crisis isn't happening maybe?

living really north (58deg) i can tell you we are witnessing it happening... and its accelerating. so too must our actions to prevent and reverse the disasters. do you think these spats of violent weather are just part of the earths natural biorythms?

although, all you peeps south need not rush... it's nice getting a few hot summers up here before the oceanic currents switch off from the temp increases and we loose the gulf stream that warms our winters... then it will be so erratic that where i live will be uninhabitable in less than a few decades.

remember after "9-11" and they stopped the planes... temp jumped globally, yes thats, GLOBALLY, because we're in a head&sholders syndrome. anyone use head and sholders? and what happens when you stop? the problem comes back. this is becase it strips you of your natural defences and makes you reliant on the chemical barrier.

KAdernal
plus he did invent the internet so hes got connections

yeah, thats got to be one of the most popular misquotes of the century. are you sure you're not a politician? with underhanded slights like that you sure know how to stab at someones reputation. but seriously... IF he's right, would you really want to diswade people from listening>?

KAdernal
but it doesnt take away from teh fact that someone did research and all Gore did was spew out information he got from other places

and that doesn't take away from the research OR the message. he even admits scientists did the research.



Pemberton
no, no, no and no!

ok, you set up your credentials very well. but to claim that climate change isnt effected by human actions is very partial and misleading. indeed there are many natural considerations that add to the situation (such as just last year, the planet started its 100,000 year cycle where it gets closer to the sun in it's orbit, and the sun's natural pulsations and sunspots), however that does not cover the effect we are seeing and the HUGE jump in the precursors, most obviously and undeniably, the CO2, or the depletion of the Ozone Layer.


"There are plenty of REAL problems plaguing humanity today. War, poverty, disease, racism, etc should not take a back seat to anything."

these issues will seem pretty fucking stupid when we're living under a blanket of ash rain fro a couple decades and all life on earth dies because we were as foolish in our opulence as the people of atlantis. look it up, the legend of Atlantis is a warning to us, a very real warning. we can't have war, poverty, disease and racism if there's no one left. GEDDIT!?


If i were to sumate ALL of the world's problems, i could do so with one word...


TOXINS.

toxins of the mind, the body, the planet, the materialism, our behaviour, our thoughts, our foods, our cosmetics, our fuels, marketting, .... it all adds up, and has cumulative effects.

indeed, when we realise we are not seperate from earth and indeed, part of it, we cannot escape the truth that what we do to harm things outside our human bodies (and within) only harms ourselves... and so... lets get cleaning up these toxins!


PS, "green" products cost so much generally because they lack the large backing all our "grey" products have. they lack the initial kickstart funding to make it ecconomically viable and competitive with those who only consider the short term gains. for an example, the reason we don't have hemp paper(besides gov red tape & inclusion of "marijuana" in drug laws) is because to make it viable, and competitively priced means to make a large enough factory.. currently the biggest (if my info is still current) is not even a tenth the size it needs to be before we see that 5 times efficiency of hemp to trees kick in. and please... try to tell me that bleached and acid pulped trees are more ecco or enviro than hemp pulp that needs no acid or bleeching.... no. it's real, fucking accept it and tackle it. Fear aint got shit to do with it. acting out of fear makes us do stupid things, gore knows this, he doesn't want you to freeze like a rabbit in the headlights, he acknowledges this is about RESPONSABILITY! Accepting Responsability is a very liberating and empowering experience. don't give your power to those who are profiteering from shaping your ignore-ance. the peoples of the galaxy and further are watching us, children of earth... get with it! gurr... now look, you made me mad.

[naku06]

Originally Posted by Digit

don't give your power to those who are profiteering from shaping your ignore-ance. the peoples of the galaxy and further are watching us, children of earth... get with it!

i must back this up, to a full extent. people have, by my eyes, forgotten they actually have a brain to work with, and dismiss all ideas of using it. has it really come to an idealogic of this super tred of media ideas being the standard for the everyday train of thought? all i can say, is snap out of it.

[AK Infinity]

“It is called the Mystic Law because it explains the mutually inclusive relationship of life and all phenomena.... Life at each moment encompasses both body and spirit and both self and environment of all sentient beings in every condition of life, as well as insentient beings -- plants, sky and earth, on down to the most minute particles of dust. Life at each moment permeates the universe and is revealed in all phenomena.”

<O</O<CITE>~Nichiren Daishonin, "On Attaining Buddhahood", The Major Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, Vol. 1, NSIC, Tokyo, 1979, p. 3.~</CITE>
<CITE></CITE>
<CITE>"<O</O</CITE>We can no longer rely on 19th-century models of analysis for 21st-century problems.... Humans are an integral part of the ecology of the planet. The only lasting environmental solutions are those that take into account the dynamics of human society as well as those of natural systems."<O</O
<O</O
<CITE></CITE>
<CITE>~Dan Botkin Source: Wallace Kaufman, "How Nature Really Works", American Forests, March/April 1993, p. 60.~</CITE><O</O

Open your eyes everyone, please...just open your eyes...

Stay green!

[Digit]

ok,

enter the tangent...


Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

nammyohorengekyo-nammyohorengekyo-nammyohorengekyo-nammyohorengekyo-nammyohorengekyo-nammyohorengekyo-

etc.

my own aprx understandings of the translation which i try to keep in mind at least for the first time i say this mantra, a core piece of the nichiren buddhism:
nam = i summon in me
myoho = universal law (i highly reccomend you look this up, as it is most core, most... universal)
renge = aprx something like the infinate reseeding reflowering of the heart, of the lotus (its difficult to translate)
kyo = sutras, teachings, scriptures

this is in sanskrit (i think) which is supposed to be the language most intune with the universe, so much so that if one was so clear in mind and pronounciation, one could "summon" anything by simply saying the word/words. stick that up your english!

it is said, (in the book i got my nichiren knowledge from) that this "mantra", along with reciting passages of ancient scriptures is the only way to remove all suffering. where most religions concern themselves primarily with danger, buddhism concerns itself more with suffering. kinda.

...since you mentioned Nichiren Daishonin school of buddhism.


and so, every day, Nam myoho renge kyo. its more potent the more you focus on it and its meaning, for intent is worth SO much.

[AK Infinity]

Cool. The hardest thing about knowing the truth is the weight it places upon our complacency. It’s that fine internal moment when you realize that if you remain inactive it’s because you choose to, and choices bring with them a multitude of moral implications and questions, whereas ignorance does not.

Peace to all God's children.

[naku06]

Originally Posted by AK Infinity

Cool. The hardest thing about knowing the truth is the weight it places upon our complacency. It’s that fine internal moment when you realize that if you remain inactive it’s because you choose to, and choices bring with them a multitude of moral implications and questions, whereas ignorance does not.

Peace to all God's children.

not all process like that. morals are on a broad sense, maybe not for you, but to people that follow different teachings and beliefs dont always use morals as the determining factor for their actions.

to incorcorate every possible person in this "equation", you have to find the common x. so what the base to humanity: persistence to survive. we all share that at the least. thats going to be your most reliable connection. this movie will help the few that dont have this specific worry in their behaviors yet, but i dont believe it will do much, unfortunately.

[Ebinezer02:4]

here we go again.........

ok, so bush fites wars like crazy....does that make him an expert? did bush drop the bomb that killed the zarqauwi (spelling?) guy? i dont think so..... gore is saying what he is told to say....if you would have payed attention to my first post, you would see that i care, and i do think its a problem. i think yall just needed something to cling to.

and one final question, how have all the other cycles in earth climate began? you cant blaim the dinosaurs for the ice ages....... maybe were going through a another climate change that is just being masked. just a thought.

[AK Infinity]

"not all process like that. morals are on a broad sense, maybe not for you, but to people that follow different teachings and beliefs dont always use morals as the determining factor for their actions.

to incorcorate every possible person in this "equation", you have to find the common x. so what the base to humanity: persistence to survive. we all share that at the least. thats going to be your most reliable connection. this movie will help the few that dont have this specific worry in their behaviors yet, but i dont believe it will do much, unfortunately."

~Naku06~

Even writers forget how tricky language can be especially on the interpretation end of things. My point is that this is an issue that's not going to be solved by quibbling over semantics, "moral" or "will to survive," either way you slice it all humanity has a crisis facing it whether we speak different languages or have different religions. Buddhists, Christians, or whomever they may be all die the same regardless of their beliefs.

Thanks for your thoughts.

"here we go again.........

ok, so bush fites wars like crazy....does that make him an expert? did bush drop the bomb that killed the zarqauwi (spelling?) guy? i dont think so..... gore is saying what he is told to say....if you would have payed attention to my first post, you would see that i care, and i do think its a problem. i think yall just needed something to cling to.

and one final question, how have all the other cycles in earth climate began? you cant blaim the dinosaurs for the ice ages....... maybe were going through a another climate change that is just being masked. just a thought."

~Ebinezer02:4~

Let me get this point out of the way first I apologize if you felt I was saying that you don't care, that wasn't my intent. I speak in general terms because I acknowledge that this is a public forum and that at any given time I could be addressing more than just one individual.

Also, I don't believe the things that I do because I need something to cling to, I've got weed and women for that.

Lastly, scientists have been and are pouring over 600,000 years of paleoclimate data and have pretty much established what the "normal" range is in the variation of earth's temperatures. Guess what, they've come to the conclusion that human beings are dramatically impacting the environment as they haven't seen a jump in temperature this extreme before, but hey, not everyone responds to truth the same way.

Peace.

[collector]

Building off of what ak just said: Basically, there has been an elevation on overall climate teperature before previous ice ages, but in AIT, we see that the climate temerature isn't nearly as high as it is today. In the movie we see a graph of the world's climate spaning from before the two ice ages, and the current climate temperature is leaps and bounds higher than the climate temperature before the two ice ages.

[DiAmOnD RaStA]

I want to see this movie... and i think everyone should.


You guys have had some good convo in this thread - ill keep my eye on it.

[Digit]

ebinezer"and one final question, how have all the other cycles in earth climate began? you cant blaim the dinosaurs for the ice ages....... maybe were going through a another climate change that is just being masked. just a thought."

how did all the others start? i think it was the fluctuations of CO2 as a precursor, or a tell tale sign... or at the very least there is a correleation whether causal or not. the spike in CO2 here and now is WAY WAY WAY more than has ever been reccorded in isotopes in ice core sampes, or tree rings, or sedimentary rocks... or however it is that they measure this. WAY.

cant we blaim the dinosaurs? i'm not saying we should, but it's not something i'm going to rule out. for example... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...ardian&spell=1 if sheep can do it... couldn't dinosaurs? i mean... they're pretty big. that must be alot of flatulence.



... "going through another climate change that is just being masked"??? "maybe"???

to turn this into a competitive debate would be counter productive and impractical, so i'll agree with you. it's being masked by a media campaign to protect the shareholders.


the correlation between temp changes and CO2 is but one of the alignments in the graphs that can be drawn. the gap (not so obvious from the "move on" version of the 2004 speach available in a low quality online) is a few decades. we're experiencing the knock on climactic and heat changes from the changes in the chemical composition of the atmosphere (and other eco spheres) from (my guesstimate) victorian times to the mid 20th Century.

.... think about that... how much did we increase our CO2 (+ others) since then? how much are we likely to feel the oncoming brunt of the wave of climactic hecktic mental unrest and turmoil?

ebenezer... you say you care, but still, you work hard to convince yourself that it's not happening to the point of being completely resistant to even dealing with "what if".

i dunno, thats just how it seems. and it also occurs to me that we cannot waste more time discussing/arguing it. its time to DO stuff about it (including, yet besides, convincing the reluctant).


a few words on complacency
i can think of no better analogy than my TENS of THOUSANDS of hours playing the games Soul Calibur, and Soul Calibur 2. thats alot of hours of gameplay (alot of months/years of my life), and those of you who know me will know i've done alot of deap thought on this, and the lessons one can learn from what at first glance seems unrelated to life lessons. Anyone seen Krazi Hare recently? he can confirm my capacity for corelative observations and thoughts.
Soul Calibur;
In meeting a worthy opponent, the game will be close, most of the time... however sometimes a great lead in energy bars starts early on... this can evoke the most comon source of defeat in the well accomplished and competent, complacency. the psychology of this is so undeniable it can even be employed as a tactic to success by evoking it in your opponent. the risk in this tactic though is when you use their complacency against them you must of course deal them vast amounts of damage in a shorter time period nearer the end, thus risking them to snap out of complacency into survival instict, though, the best state to be in for success is "the zone" where moves flow naturally and effectively, states nearer a "survuval instict" are often riddled with more panic than the inner peace of "the zone" or "flow" which is precicely when mistakes will be made and thus the swing back, the passing of the "tipping point" so swift that reccovery to a "flow" state cannot be achieved and a desperate panic insues in the formerly complacent unto defeat through too many errors made out of fear. this aludes to the perfect state for success, a calm mind, "the middle way" where neither complacency nor panic strikes. neither expectancy nor desperation. The "flow", so close to the state refered to by workers, artists, athletes as "the zone" where, when tasks are complete it feels as if no effort were required at all, and is as (for those avid Futurama fans) when bender after his taste of godhood is sent home and the galactic consciousness says "when you do it right, people will think you did nothing at all". or something to that effect.



i suspect there is still a great deal of complacency around here and in others on Earth. Al Gore is on our side, this is why he is consciously making us aware, as gently as he can to AVOID sending us into a panic, so that we can make the right moves to not only ensure our survival but also live well, with quality of life... something that until you loose it, you take for granted the GREAT value it has (take it from me, i was a cripple with many other ailments of great discomfort).


*nods*

[AK Infinity]

Word.

[KAdernal]

Originally Posted by collector

Building off of what ak just said: Basically, there has been an elevation on overall climate teperature before previous ice ages, but in AIT, we see that the climate temerature isn't nearly as high as it is today. In the movie we see a graph of the world's climate spaning from before the two ice ages, and the current climate temperature is leaps and bounds higher than the climate temperature before the two ice ages.

maybe we are about to experience the worst ice age in the history of the earth, along with the end of mankind.