2012 = Universe's Way of Telling Us We're Being Bad

[blknazn]

its all shitwater if you ask me. 2012 is just a brain ttrigger for thoughts of ending. obviously the trigger only work on stupids. 2012 is just a bunch of numbers that equal 6. more than one way.

[mushroomsatsuji]

Originally Posted by MelT

That would be because that's how the original story came about. Historically we can show exactly where the whole idea of 2012 began with the - wrong - idea that their calender predicted the end of the world, which it didn't. Other people took up that idea and developed it into other things, but the whole crux has always been the mayan calendar. As that angle has been debunked the rest is later fabrications.

MelT

You know, I have a shirt I like to wear. People always comment on how true it is.

"Everyday I think people cant get any stupider.
Everyday I am proven horribly wrong"

My belief in 2012 has nothing to do with the mayans or nostradamus. Many end of the world predictions have been made and none came true. Not to mention people are only assuming that these people predicted the end of the world when they have no idea what they meant.

2012 does have some scientific basis because we will be aligned with the center of the galaxy which they believe will cause our poles to shift. Obviously this will bring major climatic change, but this could take thousands or millions of years.

The reason I really believe something is going to happen is because of what I see in global politics today. I do not see it getting better without getting worse.

Though one thing I do find interesting is that a man graphed out the I-Ching and it matched up with every major event in human history. On dec 12 2012, it hits bottom. But I still see that along with all the other predictions.

[MelT]

Originally Posted by mushroomsatsuji

2012 does have some scientific basis because we will be aligned with the center of the galaxy which they believe will cause our poles to shift. Obviously this will bring major climatic change, but this could take thousands or millions of years.

This is a part of what I'm disputing, we don't align with the galactic centre as such, because the galactic centre is indefinable (I posted a link to a conversation with one of the people who started this rumour, showing how wrong it is to imply what they do). Another is that we're somehow lining up with the black hole at the centre of our galaxy, but there is a swarm of many black holes moving at the centre of our galaxy (along with one massive one), so even that can't define a centre. There is no scientific evidence at all that it will cause a pole shift. There's no doubt that we've had many over the course of our history, and we're due for one 'soon', but there is no evidence that one will be triggered by our position in the galaxy.

Originally Posted by mushroomsatsuji

The reason I really believe something is going to happen is because of what I see in global politics today. I do not see it getting better without getting worse.

As it's always been. 2012 may be bad, but whatever happens in the politics in that year isn't due to the position of the earth.

Originally Posted by mushroomsatsuji

Though one thing I do find interesting is that a man graphed out the I-Ching and it matched up with every major event in human history. On dec 12 2012, it hits bottom. But I still see that along with all the other predictions.

TBH I don't think that a superstitious method of divination is proof of the end of the world, or an any more reasonable than the 2012 'shift'. Could you provide a link?

You'll probably have already read the link Sikander posted in S+P showing that the calendar was miscalculated and the end isn't due for another two hundred years. It's not looking good for it as a theory, I have to say.

http://forum.grasscity.com/spiritual...2-aw-shit.html

MelT

[Buddy Dink]

Originally Posted by mushroomsatsuji

You know, I have a shirt I like to wear. People always comment on how true it is.

"Everyday I think people cant get any stupider.
Everyday I am proven horribly wrong"

My belief in 2012 has nothing to do with the mayans or nostradamus. Many end of the world predictions have been made and none came true. Not to mention people are only assuming that these people predicted the end of the world when they have no idea what they meant.

2012 does have some scientific basis because we will be aligned with the center of the galaxy which they believe will cause our poles to shift. Obviously this will bring major climatic change, but this could take thousands or millions of years.

The reason I really believe something is going to happen is because of what I see in global politics today. I do not see it getting better without getting worse.

Though one thing I do find interesting is that a man graphed out the I-Ching and it matched up with every major event in human history. On dec 12 2012, it hits bottom. But I still see that along with all the other predictions.

What you are talking about is Terrance McKenna and his Timewave Zero. I love Terrance McKenna, buy I have to say that I don't buy into his work here.

While I'm sure there is some sort of outside influence to our poles changing, which would not take thousands of years by the way, the main contributor would be internal, where our magnetism comes from. The alignment of our planets towards the center of our galaxy doesn't have much to do with that.

From what little I do know about poles shifting it happens quickly on a geological scale, hundreds of years. The way they can tell our poles have shifted is by measuring the way the rock forms on the fault in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, and I'm sure at other sites around the world. Apparently it happens every 200,000 years, so something tells me them switching would not take millions of years. Also, the number 200,000 is an average. The poles switching, to our understanding, is a random event. It generally happens every 200,000 years.

We are past the 200,000 year mark, but that doesn't mean that one must happen soon, because again it is a random event.

In all honesty the only thing I can see happening in 2012 would be caused by all of the 2012 hysteria. Imagine everyone thinking the world is going to end. I can't imagine how much looting would be going on. You are right about our political scene, though. It won't get better until it gets worse, and it would be pretty funny to see it all go down in 2012.

[Spikoli]

Originally Posted by Buddy Dink

In all honesty the only thing I can see happening in 2012 would be caused by all of the 2012 hysteria. Imagine everyone thinking the world is going to end. I can't imagine how much looting would be going on. You are right about our political scene, though. It won't get better until it gets worse, and it would be pretty funny to see it all go down in 2012.

perception is reality, and if enough people buy into the crap "something" will happen. but it will be driven by the same thing as all such "events" human greed, fear, jealousy, and ignorance.

[mushroomsatsuji]

Originally Posted by MelT

This is a part of what I'm disputing, we don't align with the galactic centre as such, because the galactic centre is indefinable (I posted a link to a conversation with one of the people who started this rumour, showing how wrong it is to imply what they do). Another is that we're somehow lining up with the black hole at the centre of our galaxy, but there is a swarm of many black holes moving at the centre of our galaxy (along with one massive one), so even that can't define a centre. There is no scientific evidence at all that it will cause a pole shift. There's no doubt that we've had many over the course of our history, and we're due for one 'soon', but there is no evidence that one will be triggered by our position in the galaxy.

MelT

Scientists know very little about our own solar system, so we cant really expect them to know where the center of the galaxy is.

As it's always been. 2012 may be bad, but whatever happens in the politics in that year isn't due to the position of the earth.

Its a separate issue

TBH I don't think that a superstitious method of divination is proof of the end of the world, or an any more reasonable than the 2012 'shift'. Could you provide a link?

It was featured in a History Channel special of 2012

You'll probably have already read the link Sikander posted in S+P showing that the calendar was miscalculated and the end isn't due for another two hundred years. It's not looking good for it as a theory, I have to say.

http://forum.grasscity.com/spiritual...2-aw-shit.html

Not surprising. No one even knows what the Mayans were doing with the calendar anyway

Originally Posted by Buddy Dink

In all honesty the only thing I can see happening in 2012 would be caused by all of the 2012 hysteria. Imagine everyone thinking the world is going to end. I can't imagine how much looting would be going on. You are right about our political scene, though. It won't get better until it gets worse, and it would be pretty funny to see it all go down in 2012.

Im just waiting to see how people are going to react around 2012...

[Spikoli]

hey mushroomsatsuji you take you SN from that alistair renoylds book??? I was trying to remember where i heard the name satsuji before...

[mushroomsatsuji]

Originally Posted by Spikoli

hey mushroomsatsuji you take you SN from that alistair renoylds book??? I was trying to remember where i heard the name satsuji before...

No. This was my gaming name. And its supposed to be satsujin, japanese for murder

[Spikoli]

that makes sense the character was kinda....terminal....

[MelT]

Originally Posted by mushroomsatsuji

Scientists know very little about our own solar system, so we cant really expect them to know where the center of the galaxy is.

I'm sorry, that's a rather strange statement to make. We know vast amounts about our solar system and have sent endless probes to investigate all the planets, most of the moons in it. We have two probes sent out over 30 years ago which have long since actually left our solar system, that have sent back vast amounts of data abou it. Via these and other probes we know the weight, size, much of the composition, orbit, etc of all planets and msot moons. We know increasing amounts about Saturn, Mars and the Moon with every passing month. Really, we know lots...

So, what you're saying is that the 'Mayans' were capable of deciding where the galactic centre was even though there isn't one, as there's nothing to denote a centre, either in terms of light, or object density - but we can't? Are you aware of the amazing observational animations (not mock-ups) we have now of the central region of our galaxy, which shows all of the black holes, all the incredible detail in X-ray, microwave and infra-red? We probably know more about the Milky Way than we do about Pluto. I think a quick tour round the APOD site might be of interest to you

MELT: As it's always been. 2012 may be bad, but whatever happens in the politics in that year isn't due to the position of the earth.

Originally Posted by mushroomsatsuji

Its a separate issue

Actually, it's not. Not ignoring the usual cut and thrust of world disasters and politics that take place every single year is highly relevant. If we don't take it into account then we could easily pick on any year and say that it was somehow worse than others, when in fact, each year is pretty much the same apart from when we're involved in a world war. Anyone who didn't take it into account would be misleading themselves.

MELT Quote:
TBH I don't think that a superstitious method of divination is proof of the end of the world, or an any more reasonable than the 2012 'shift'. Could you provide a link?

Originally Posted by mushroomsatsuji

It was featured in a History Channel special of 2012

Riiiiight....You do know that not all of their shows are accurate and do tend towards showing prog's that are a little off the wall to get viewers. One bloke who says he's done an I-Ching chart isn't really proof of him or his methods or even the validity of the I-Ching itself.

MELT Quote:
You'll probably have already read the link Sikander posted in S+P showing that the calendar was miscalculated and the end isn't due for another two hundred years. It's not looking good for it as a theory, I have to say.

http://forum.grasscity.com/spiritual...2-aw-shit.html

Originally Posted by mushroomsatsuji

Not surprising. No one even knows what the Mayans were doing with the calendar anyway.

We have many scholars who know the Mayan calendar - and the Mayans themselves - inside out. I have to wonder though, so far you've said we know nothing of the solar system or the galaxy, know nothing of the mayans or their calandar, pole shifts, astronomy and other things that we do actually know a lot about. I find it very hard to believe that you aren't aware of the advances and knowledge we have concerning these things, and TBH it sounds like a purposeful rubbishing of our knowledge so you can play the 'science doesn't know everything' card to support what you believe. If you really don't know these things there's a whole wonderful world out there that's far more interesting than Sitchin, Tsarion, Hancock, Icke and all the other doomsday nutcases put together, you would love it.

Originally Posted by mushroomsatsuji

Im just waiting to see how people are going to react around 2012...

I can't wait. I wonder what all the woo-woos will do to back themselves out of nothing happening? But your statement, as others you've made, tries to imply that you have foreknowledge, and yet you can't say what's meant to take place?

MelT

[Herbin Legend]

I guess one way to look at it if I'm right your going to look like a fucking idiot. If your right...well nobody will give a fuck because I guess we'll all be dead. What a shame, its basically a lose lose situation for anyone that actually believes that end of world bullshit.

[tripleoptic]

Originally Posted by MelT

I'm sorry, that's a rather strange statement to make. We know vast amounts about our solar system and have sent endless probes to investigate all the planets, most of the moons in it. We have two probes sent out over 30 years ago which have long since actually left our solar system, that have sent back vast amounts of data abou it. Via these and other probes we know the weight, size, much of the composition, orbit, etc of all planets and msot moons. We know increasing amounts about Saturn, Mars and the Moon with every passing month. Really, we know lots...

So, what you're saying is that the 'Mayans' were capable of deciding where the galactic centre was even though there isn't one, as there's nothing to denote a centre, either in terms of light, or object density - but we can't? Are you aware of the amazing observational animations (not mock-ups) we have now of the central region of our galaxy, which shows all of the black holes, all the incredible detail in X-ray, microwave and infra-red? We probably know more about the Milky Way than we do about Pluto. I think a quick tour round the APOD site might be of interest to you

MELT: As it's always been. 2012 may be bad, but whatever happens in the politics in that year isn't due to the position of the earth.



Actually, it's not. Not ignoring the usual cut and thrust of world disasters and politics that take place every single year is highly relevant. If we don't take it into account then we could easily pick on any year and say that it was somehow worse than others, when in fact, each year is pretty much the same apart from when we're involved in a world war. Anyone who didn't take it into account would be misleading themselves.

MELT Quote:
TBH I don't think that a superstitious method of divination is proof of the end of the world, or an any more reasonable than the 2012 'shift'. Could you provide a link?



Riiiiight....You do know that not all of their shows are accurate and do tend towards showing prog's that are a little off the wall to get viewers. One bloke who says he's done an I-Ching chart isn't really proof of him or his methods or even the validity of the I-Ching itself.

MELT Quote:
You'll probably have already read the link Sikander posted in S+P showing that the calendar was miscalculated and the end isn't due for another two hundred years. It's not looking good for it as a theory, I have to say.

http://forum.grasscity.com/spiritual...2-aw-shit.html



We have many scholars who know the Mayan calendar - and the Mayans themselves - inside out. I have to wonder though, so far you've said we know nothing of the solar system or the galaxy, know nothing of the mayans or their calandar, pole shifts, astronomy and other things that we do actually know a lot about. I find it very hard to believe that you aren't aware of the advances and knowledge we have concerning these things, and TBH it sounds like a purposeful rubbishing of our knowledge so you can play the 'science doesn't know everything' card to support what you believe. If you really don't know these things there's a whole wonderful world out there that's far more interesting than Sitchin, Tsarion, Hancock, Icke and all the other doomsday nutcases put together, you would love it.



I can't wait. I wonder what all the woo-woos will do to back themselves out of nothing happening? But your statement, as others you've made, tries to imply that you have foreknowledge, and yet you can't say what's meant to take place?

MelT

+ rep for knowing what the hell is going on.

I gave up when suddenly 2012 had nothing to do with the Maya anymore. I spent my whole undergrad career studying the Maya, Inca and North American Cultures and it's amazing the amount of logical fallacies and misinformation that are being thrown around in this thread right now.

We know a TON about the Maya, their calendar and how it works a trip to the library or even some internet research should make that clear. And like you said, the REAL archaeological record is way more interesting than this tinfoil hat B.S. that's being spouted.

[blackjack]

I think anything is possible honestly.
You can't disprove anything when religion is involved.
There are too many possibilities and too much we don't know.
I stand neutral on 2012.
I do not believe that something will happen, but I also do not believe something won't.
If we had the evidence then more people would prepare for it.

Honestly, I think doomsday prophecies help our evolution as humans because it makes you step back and think.

I think as a race we need to re-evaluate our existence on this planet and stop killing ourselves. I want to believe that an event will happen in 2012 that will cause us to have to come together and fight for our survival and realize we are all equal.

[MelT]

Originally Posted by tripleoptic

+ rep for knowing what the hell is going on.

I gave up when suddenly 2012 had nothing to do with the Maya anymore. I spent my whole undergrad career studying the Maya, Inca and North American Cultures and it's amazing the amount of logical fallacies and misinformation that are being thrown around in this thread right now.

We know a TON about the Maya, their calendar and how it works a trip to the library or even some internet research should make that clear. And like you said, the REAL archaeological record is way more interesting than this tinfoil hat B.S. that's being spouted.

This is the thing I wish more people knew. There's just so many interesting and intriguing things provably out there in the real world to explore, but it all gets ignored for what a few writers want the public to believe.

MelT

[MelT]

Originally Posted by blackjack

I think anything is possible honestly.
You can't disprove anything when religion is involved.

I would seriously dispure that, but...Anything isn't possible.

Think of it this way - not one word of he science that's supposed to support this is true. That means one of two things: either somebody was sloppy and just got things wrong, or someone made them up on purpose. In this case we can trace the 2012 story down to a couple of writers a few years ago. There's nothing to be connected to religion, it isn't anything to have some kind of hidden authority, because it's fiction.

Originally Posted by blackjack

I think as a race we need to re-evaluate our existence on this planet and stop killing ourselves. I want to believe that an event will happen in 2012 that will cause us to have to come together and fight for our survival and realize we are all equal.

I understand your sentiment, it's how most people feel I think, but your words say it all, you want to believe it's going to happen, just in the hope that the awful things we see happening around ourselves will stop. It's an understandable response, what people can do to each other just staggers me some days; but don't let hope make you truly hold any belief in this, don't let it be any more than a wish, because it is honestly a fictional tale made up as a way of selling books.

MelT