Animals and Concius Thought

[burnttwaffle]

well i was thinking, sober as a bird, do animals have consius thought? like, do they know what they are thinking and what they are doing, or are they just instinct

do sum animals have it and others do not, how do we find out, if they do, whats next?

[trawepale]

i am sure animals have conscious thought especially the great apes such as bonobos, chimps, and us. i really don't see why not since there are so many animals which live in social groups and they must be aware of themselves and their place otherwise they wouldn't be able to function and survive.

[Maitereya]

definitely. maybe even more so than humanity. i always thought whales and elephants were higher on the thought scale than humans. they just dont have little fingers to write and do complex tasks.

im sure some have less of a though process like some bugs or reptiles/amphibians.

people try to communicate with the other animals, coco the ape learned sign language. i know they were doing experiments with dolphins to learn their language, its more complex than scientists can understand.

as for whats next, i would say stop killing them and destroying their habitat so every creature can evolve and learn from one another.

[remdog]

Originally Posted by burnttwaffle

well i was thinking, sober as a bird, do animals have consius thought? like, do they know what they are thinking and what they are doing, or are they just instinct

do sum animals have it and others do not, how do we find out, if they do, whats next?

not only do they have concious thought, but they make rational decisons just as we do. they know exactly what they are doin man. a cheatah makes gemetric calculations in its mind when its gettin ready to hunt down prey. it decides when the oppertune moment to strike is, and then it calculates the best attack angle. you bet they have concious thought man

[Liquidtruth]

Certainly they do, I have seen nothing to suggest otherwise. You do not have to hang around with pet owners for long before you start to see how the animal can understand them. If an animal was as stupid as some say, "go outside" would have no meaning, yet it apparently does. Take note of a cat, for instance, often times cats do things their owners do not approve of. To think the cat simply does not understand does not explain their behavior. My cousin's cat will sneak up on another cat (also belonging to my cousin), take note that their (my cousin) owner is watching them and realize their owner does not like when they pick on the poor girl who does not want to get laid. The cat will turn around and pretend that they were not planning anything at all, constantly checking back to see if the owner is watching. When the owner turns their head, the cat goes on to do what it knows the owner will dislike. Soon as the cat realizes the owner's attention is back on them, they seem to understand they just did something wrong, because they bolt.

This shows an ability to reason, a knowledge of self and personal wants, knowledge of others and their wants, and in summary, certainly shows conscious thought.

[Zylark]

Doing a bit of assuming...

I think all higher animals got a sense of self. And they all know living is better than dying. That in itself says all animals appreciate life, and have a sense of enjoyment of it.

Which mean they got a sense of self. Not on a human level, which is to say, on an abstract level. We might be the only species aware of our own mortality...

But we are all struck by pets that from time to time seem very lucid. I take that as a sign of their intelligence. Moronic dogs or overlord cats, there is more happening in their little brains than we immidiatly can appreciate. And I'd say all mammals are self aware to a degree or other.

But as far as we know, we can add, and that is enough to screw the rest of them royally over

(just halfway a joke...)

[effektz]

At what age do you remember becoming self-aware?

[Zylark]

That is to assume my (or your) recollection of being aware, is the same as the age I (or you) became aware.

I know my memory is faulty, and as such, I cannot claim a certain point I figured out I am me. But I do assume most animals do, especially mammals. My infant feeling of self, might be similar to a cats feeling of self. Or maybe cats are smarter. Whatever. Do not matter.

Animals are aware as we are to a degree or other, as we share the same brain structure we do. And of the more basic functions of that brain, is self-awareness. The more basic it is, the earlier it developed. The earlier it developed, the more shared it is. Actually to all the decendants of the first emergence population.

Though a cat cannot say "I chase mouse, therefore I am!", it can say "Human feed me or I'm a ghost!". So cats have free will. Most animals do, except the domesticated ones.

[Liquidtruth]

Originally Posted by Zylark

Which mean they got a sense of self. Not on a human level, which is to say, on an abstract level. We might be the only species aware of our own mortality...

I dunno man. There is that story of the "death cat". It would seem that, not only is it possible they are aware of their own mortality, but aware of ours as well.

As a side note. I do not believe animals, even whales, dolphins, monkeys, apes, and gorillas are as smart as us. Not because I am vain and refuse to believe such a thing, but because they do not have our abilities to manipulate the world around them. I can only imagine an intelligence such as ours existing in a species that is able to manipulate the world around it, otherwise, it would be like a living hell. Imagine if you had the mind you do, but the body of a cat. That would be criminal.

Originally Posted by effektz

At what age do you remember becoming self-aware?

My earliest memories occur when I was about 1 year old (approx.)

[morphyx]

My dog knows when he's done wrong even before he gets caught. My cat is plotting against us all. I know it. I've seen some bird nests that look like they hired an architect. The squirrel in my back yard is a thief and very dishonest. We used to have a ferret that collected "shiny things" and hid them in his secret spot so he could admire them later.

Yeah, there's thinking going on, but I think we attribute human-like reasoning to animals sometimes where it's more likely just a natural instinct.

[ThePhantom]

That death cat thing is interesting. I believe certain animals have somewhat conscious thought, but it is nothing like ours. I can imagine how animals think; very simply and instinctively. At lower levels, like bugs and such, they have absolutely no conscious and act purely on instinct. That is why I get pissed off when people go, "Don't kill that bug! How would you like it if someone killed you like that?" and they don't take into account that the bug isn't even aware of its existence! Crazy.

[remdog]

Originally Posted by ThePhantom

That death cat thing is interesting. I believe certain animals have somewhat conscious thought, but it is nothing like ours. I can imagine how animals think; very simply and instinctively. At lower levels, like bugs and such, they have absolutely no conscious and act purely on instinct. That is why I get pissed off when people go, "Don't kill that bug! How would you like it if someone killed you like that?" and they don't take into account that the bug isn't even aware of its existence! Crazy.

i disagree. lots of stick insects clearly show consious thought. females of many stick bug species relase a perfume to attract a male mate however if a male takes to long to show up, she will fertilize her self, but as a penelty for doing such 95% of her children will be female, and therefore their overall fitness goes down as males play key roles, just as females. aware of this penelty females stick out as long as possible for a male mate and actuly choose weather they should self fertilize themselvs.

since jellyfish have no brain i may be able to understand that they have no concious thought

[klizzle]

Most if not all animals do not think consciously like humans do. Dogs and cats learn right from wrong through something called reinforcement. They know they've done something wrong before you punish them because you've punished them before for the same thing or something similar, and their brain makes an association. This is not conscious thought (memory =/= conscious thought), however, and no sign of intelligence. A dog is only as "intelligent" as his owner.

Ask most psychologists and they will tell you the same thing, and I'm sure they know a hell of a lot more about brains and consciousness than most people.

EDIT: I like to think of animals as well programmed computers. And we "program" our dogs and cats to act a certain way by reinforcement.

[remdog]

i still disagree, and i do not care about what a pschologist says because how the hell do we know what is goin on in a dogs brain. ...... dogs for example dream, i promise you they do. this is proof against what your saying as a dream is a form of concious thought. i have had 2 puppies, and both have their own unique personalities just and seem to think differently, both were the same breed and same species and both raised around the same people, same family, 1 is clearly smarter than the other, this is part of why i belive you to be wrong.

it is easy to think we "program" our pets, but how can that be true? to what degree? we "program" other humans in the same way do we not?

[joe Biggs]

sometimes i simply look at my cat and wonder, does she know she is alive, can she understand her perception of her surroundings, does she understand her 5 scenes, what is she thinking, does she understand she is a different species than me.