humans have defeated evolution

[spacecowboypm]

I think you will agree that the human race in the past 200-300 years has defeated Charles' Survival of the fitest. We have overcome all natural predators, and made advancements allowing billions of people to live with life threatening and life altering disorders and diseases. I know this can get to be a moral issue, but the truth is that we are allowing genetic defects, and disorders to be passed on and remain in our society. So now there are no human traits or conditions that nature favors and everyone can spread their seed. Our race has no evolutional direction because nothing is weeding us out.

thoughts?

[enevitable]

What about the kid who doesn't have social skills and has no chances of spreading his genetic seed on?

What about dysgenics?

What about the fact that each generations mitochondrial dna is changing new phenos are constantly being selected?

your argument is seriously flawed

[greenteam]

yea dude thats hella true. theres no natural selection for human characteristics and traits.

[Doitintheroad]

A pandemic would change that, maybe some form of avian flu, just to throw something out there.

Also, i have one flaw i just thought of...height. We have continually been getting taller. Think about the 1500's for example, people were short. I have no graph to present, but im sure it would show a constant increase. I'm 6'0'' which i guess some would consider tall but im sure that would have been more extreme say, around, the turn of the 20th century.

But, I still see the point your making.

[pavlakos]

hmmmm....what else would cause that? maybe something else which opened doors for evolution in the past for other species including humans? every once in a while after certain cycles the earth would come into close contact with nibiru, causing the poles to shift, and at the same time certain solar cycles are at their maximum causing solar storms on earth. maybe thats how the dinos got wiped out the last time, a meteor couldve hit hit earth anytime. 2012 is supposed to open doors for evolution and, since natural selection dies out for the dominant species certain cataclysmic events occur, killing mass populations, and during something like that its survival of the fittest. but we have an uperhand on those dinos. we are intelligent

[jakeandbake]

nothing else competes with us on a natural level anymore. so we compete with each other. the thing that will bring us down is the end of the oil and cheap energy age.
get ready for world war three by 2012

[pavlakos]

I think it is necessary for humanity to figure out where they came from before assuming what is going to happen. Or have we all agreed that we came directly from apes? What happened to the missing link? im not talking about god or Adam and Eve people, Im talking about an alien race creating all of this. What about all those Sumerian tablets talking about the Anunaki creating us and them being masters of genetics. How would they even know about DNA and genetics if its just a myth? How did they know the exact allignment of the planets and the number of the planets so long before the invention of the first telescope? Many planets were found only recently after observing the Sumerian tablets and looking for them. Pluto was only found on the search for Planet X, and the Sumerians knew about it. Maybe Sumeria holds the answers and thats why the US iS in that area, because they know. There is sufficiant evidence to point to giants living on Earth, we have enough skeletal structures far surpassing the height of your average man. so many megalithic structures that date back to 6500 BC when Sumeria didnt even pop up until circa 5000 BC. I think its time to look at some facts that are right in front of our faces, but that nobody would want to even regard as a possibility the fact that UFOs and ETs could be more real than we think. maybe those giants were humanoid aliens. It says somewhere in the bible about the Rephaim breeding with the daughters of man, rephaim is hebrew for giant; and the Bible is most likely based on Sumerian stories, they have the 7 tablets of creation bible has 7 days of creation, and the stories are extremely similar. Except in one version its not god, its the Anunaki. Its something to think about



EDIT: Yet another maybe: Maybe they are still in contact with us. Why so many supposed UFO sightings in certain areas? They just pop in for a peep? What are they up to? Maybe our govts know about them.

[nitrum]

Originally Posted by pavlakos

I think its time to look at some facts that are right in front of our faces, but that nobody would want to even regard as a possibility the fact that UFOs and ETs could be more real than we think. maybe those giants were humanoid aliens. It says somewhere in the bible about the Rephaim breeding with the daughters of man, rephaim is hebrew for giant; and the Bible is most likely based on Sumerian stories, they have the 7 tablets of creation bible has 7 days of creation, and the stories are extremely similar. Except in one version its not god, its the Anunaki. Its something to think about

EDIT: Yet another maybe: Maybe they are still in contact with us. Why so many supposed UFO sightings in certain areas? They just pop in for a peep? What are they up to? Maybe our govts know about them.

I really don't think scientists are ignoring the facts when it comes to ET and UFOs. I admit, it is possible that our planet was seeded by extraterrestrials. But the only thing speculations like this do are push the question back further. How then did the ETs come into existence? It really doesn't help answer anything, and I think it is an argument biased by our desire to have meaning and purpose for our species.

I mean, science has a good answer for how life on Earth came into existence. For many people the idea that life arose from lifeless debris is unthinkable. Not to mention the numerous factors that seem to have been fine tuned to support life on Earth. It almost seems like the Earth was made for us. Perfect distance from the sun, tons of liquid water, a magnetic field, plate tectonics, active weather, a protective ozone layer, an oxygen rich atmosphere: all things that appear to be essential for the evolution of higher intellect. Even with these pristine conditions, nothing guarantees life at all. And assuming there is life, nothing guarantees that speciation and natural selection will ever lead to an intelligent being. A large brain takes a lot of calories, and most species would starve. It took very unique conditions for this to occur in man. In fact, the smallest difference in our history could have easily crossed mankind out of the picture altogether.

While many people look to ET or God to explain these coincidences, science looks to logic and probability. First off, saying that our existence is improbable is a fallacy, since it assumes an end point. It's like saying "my dad has 100 million sperm cells, so the probability of my own existence is 1 in 100 million!" In other words, our existence seems impossible when we assume that Humanoids are the only form of intelligent life. Certainly there is an many many paths to get to some kind of higher intelligence. We are one of those paths. And however improbably each of those individual paths are, we must realize that there are BILLIONS of planetary systems in the Milky Way Galaxy, and there are HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of other galaxies in the observable universe.

So enevitably the conditions will be JUST right for intelligent life, and that species will have a hard time imagining it was all an accident.

UFO "evidence" is a complete joke. You'd think with how many cameras are in the world they could get 1 close-up picture of an alien or space craft. The stuff looks slightly convincing when you see it all together, but when you view each of them as seperate chance events, I'm really not very impressed. The same goes archealogical or prophetic claims.

But believe it if you want.

[seahag]

your right, if your stating that humans have ceased to evolve anymore at this point.

[pavlakos]

well i do believe that the big bang theory is just that. theory. there is no hard evidence to it happening. i personally dont think we will discover how 'life' itself came to be. maybe the big bang made all life; but nevertheless there is evidence in stone which says that the human form of life was created and put here. whos to say theres not more life out there, and life itself didnt come from the big bang? im just talking about human origins.

[nitrum]

Originally Posted by pavlakos

well i do believe that the big bang theory is just that. theory. there is no hard evidence to it happening. i personally dont think we will discover how 'life' itself came to be. maybe the big bang made all life; but nevertheless there is evidence in stone which says that the human form of life was created and put here. whos to say theres not more life out there, and life itself didnt come from the big bang? im just talking about human origins.

It's a little cliche, but think about Occam's Razor:

[The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.] Quoted from Wikipedia

My point is that Aliens must have evolved naturally if they were to come and seed our planet. So if aliens evolved, why couldn't WE have evolved. It is just throwing in another unnecessary assumption. What makes humans more special. And also, If aliens were involved in the seeding of life on Earth it probably doesn't change any of our observable predictions.

And carvings in a rock are not objective evidence. Lots of civilizations have similar religious beliefs and just because they wrote these stories down doesn't make them true. Humans weren't just put here either. Looking at our DNA, humans are related to every living thing on the planet, and we must have all come from a single ancestor. So either ET seeded ALL life on Earth or they helped humans evolved along the way [or niether ].

The Big Bang is actually really well supported. Many predictions have been made, and all of them match observable measurements of the Universe. It isn't like someone just made up the Big Bang and all of a sudden all of the scientific community supports it.

I really wish ET did visit Earth. I just highly doubt it. I figure if they spent all the time getting here (thousands of years) and were really that smart, they would leave some kind of objective clue of their existence, rather than shabby carvings made by a primitive and superstitious society.

[pavlakos]

im not ruling out evolution, i just think the modern human, is not in fact the product of evolution. i never said the Anunaki or other life forms of this planet never evolved, whos to say? OUR origins are so controversial, how would we know what happened to ETs? and just for the record im not talking about some cave paintings, im talking about well organized texts written in cueniform on clay tablets.

[nitrum]

Originally Posted by spacecowboypm

I think you will agree that the human race in the past 200-300 years has defeated Charles' Survival of the fitest. We have overcome all natural predators, and made advancements allowing billions of people to live with life threatening and life altering disorders and diseases. I know this can get to be a moral issue, but the truth is that we are allowing genetic defects, and disorders to be passed on and remain in our society. So now there are no human traits or conditions that nature favors and everyone can spread their seed. Our race has no evolutional direction because nothing is weeding us out.

thoughts?

Well I probably won't convince pavlakos, so back on topic.

Yeah, in a sense evolution has stopped for humans. Diabetes is rising quickly, most people need glasses, and modern medicine is making more and more defects survivable. You could argue that medicine is advancing faster than we are degenerating. We're certainly living longer than in the past. But what's to say that this trend will last forever. An not to mention, many medical corrective procedures are very time consuming, expensive and definitely reduce the quality of life.

I'm all for genetically controlling our children, like in the movie Gattaca. The whole point of that movie was that the rich (who could genetically enhance their children) would discriminate against the naturally born children. I mean, in a way this happens anyways. There is already somewhat of a "caste" system in the US. Attractive people with "good" genes usually marry people like themself and vice versa.

I don't want to come off as a Nazi, but I think eugenics will enevitably be a part of our future. I don't think we should abuse or kill people with defective genes, but we should definitely consider the effects on our species when these people have children. Actually, I think my genes aren't the best either (history of Cancer, pregancy complications, diabetes, bad eyes, bad teeth, hair loss). Unfortunately there isn't really a way to control who does and doesn't have children without becoming a terrible dictatorship. So I guess I don't have a good answer.

[pavlakos]

well, eventually the world will probably be ruled by a dictator...look at whats happening....also, i was just tryiong to point out that if you look at history, when the dominant species stopped evolving, something happened to open doors to evolution.

[nitrum]

Originally Posted by pavlakos

i was just tryiong to point out that if you look at history, when the dominant species stopped evolving, something happened to open doors to evolution.

A good point. But it isn't like as soon as evolution stagnated something happened. The dinosaurs changed very little for a long time. I imagine that our planet will become severily over populated, at which point something will happen that kills most of the people (hopefully not all). But that could be in 200 years or 200,000 years. It could be manmade or environmental.

Although our species is stagnant now, I really doubt it will last. We live in a world where resources are abundant, but limited. Once overpopulation takes hold, there WILL be competition to survive. And that means someone will have to die. So in some way selection will eventually have to occur. Whether it is natural selection, or societal/government selection. This halt in evolution is only temporary.