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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by nitrum View Post
I mean, science has a good answer for how life on Earth came into existence. For many people the idea that life arose from lifeless debris is unthinkable. Not to mention the numerous factors that seem to have been fine tuned to support life on Earth. It almost seems like the Earth was made for us. Perfect distance from the sun, tons of liquid water, a magnetic field, plate tectonics, active weather, a protective ozone layer, an oxygen rich atmosphere: all things that appear to be essential for the evolution of higher intellect. Even with these pristine conditions, nothing guarantees life at all. And assuming there is life, nothing guarantees that speciation and natural selection will ever lead to an intelligent being. A large brain takes a lot of calories, and most species would starve. It took very unique conditions for this to occur in man. In fact, the smallest difference in our history could have easily crossed mankind out of the picture altogether.
An intelligent, reasonable, and logical observation.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2008, 12:11 AM
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We'll still evolve, it's just adding variables, which when compared to the timespan evolution occurs throughout, seem trivial.

Not only the grooming of genetically defficient individuals but also the chemicals from pollution, food additives and preservatives, chemicals in our drinking water, changes in the ecosystem surrounding us, changes in our lifestyles (no exercise, bad diet, etc.). It seems to me that all of these things are factors that we should be concerned about, but at the same time who knows what could happen over millions of years.

My guess is we won't last long enough to reach the point of being considered a whole other species anyhow. We're just going to be another dead branch on the tree of evolution.

Maybe chimps and smarter apes will survive and eventually turn into something better than humans, who knows.

Now I'm gettin all planet of the apes on your asses.

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Old 04-18-2008, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by spacecowboypm View Post
I think you will agree that the human race in the past 200-300 years has defeated Charles' Survival of the fitest. We have overcome all natural predators, and made advancements allowing billions of people to live with life threatening and life altering disorders and diseases. I know this can get to be a moral issue, but the truth is that we are allowing genetic defects, and disorders to be passed on and remain in our society. So now there are no human traits or conditions that nature favors and everyone can spread their seed. Our race has no evolutional direction because nothing is weeding us out.

thoughts?
Thats because evolution needs more time to work, of course you won't see much change in just a few hundred years. No we have not overcome all natural predators, we have isolated ourselves enough from them but most people wouldn't last a day in the wild.

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Originally Posted by jakeandbake View Post
nothing else competes with us on a natural level anymore. so we compete with each other. the thing that will bring us down is the end of the oil and cheap energy age.
get ready for world war three by 2012
plenty of species could compete with us if we in fact stayed in our natural homes and not fell victims to modernity.


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Originally Posted by seahag View Post
your right, if your stating that humans have ceased to evolve anymore at this point.
no they have not mutations of alleles is constantly happening, maybe not quick enough for you to see in one lifetime but compare this generations alleles to says a hundred generations ago you will see evidence of evolution occurring.
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Old 04-19-2008, 09:32 PM
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Deciding whether humans are still evolving or not is a tough debate. On the one hand, evolution takes millions of years, so you can't really just say because we haven't changed for awhile that evolution has stopped. However, evolution works by organisms adapting to their environment. Humans adapt the environment to themselves. Therefore, evolution would not occur. Interesting, hmm?
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
Deciding whether humans are still evolving or not is a tough debate. On the one hand, evolution takes millions of years, so you can't really just say because we haven't changed for awhile that evolution has stopped. However, evolution works by organisms adapting to their environment. Humans adapt the environment to themselves. Therefore, evolution would not occur. Interesting, hmm?
We'll still evolve, it will just be evolving to the artificial environments and lifestyle we create for outselves, which may or may not be a good thing.
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:29 PM
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Humans will always continue to evolve just like any other species. We will never "defeat" evolution entirely. However, we have had a definite influence on it. We have redefined what exactly classifies as survival of the "fittest", but we have not removed the concept entirely. People still die everyday from making stupid mistakes... whether it's a car accident, or an execution, or a suicide bombing, or a drug deal gone wrong, the list goes on and on. I'm sure plenty of you have heard of the Darwin Awards. So the fittest are no longer necessarily the physically strongest, but are instead those who have the greatest mental capacity. Smart people know how live their lives without getting killed... and yes, we're talking about extreme generalizations here. Those who have a stronger will, better problem solving capabilities, and are more observant have a better chance of survival than those who are lacking in one or more of those abilities. Realize though, that evolution is an extremely slow gradual process. It isn't something a person can directly observe during their lifetime, and that's why people fail to understand that it is always happening.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2008, 11:05 PM
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This was a very interesting read that was posted up a couple weeks ago.

Autism, Asperger’s and Evolution
By Rusty Rockets What is the difference between a genetic abnormality and genetic evolution? Is the human body’s adaptability responsible for many of the conditions that we call mental disorders? Researchers concede that the science world is still in the dark about the causes of autism and asperger’s disorder, but they also concede that autism and asperger’s are most likely genetically oriented. Is it possible that in disorders such as autism and Asperger’s we are witnessing evolution at work?

“From my clinical experience I consider that children and adults with Asperger’s Syndrome have a different, not defective, way of thinking,” says Tony Attwood, a clinical psychologist at Griffith University and author of Asperger's syndrome: A Guide for Parents and Professionals. We all have a different perspective on the world from the person sitting next to us, so perhaps autism and Asperger’s are just relative extremes to the much more prevalent mild differences of individual perspective. The information that bombards our brains everyday is analyzed, processed and scrutinized until we arrive at a consistent model of the world that allows us to cope with everyday life. How this happens must rely heavily on how our brains are constructed and how our genes and DNA sequencing determine our final brain composition during embryo development.

Interestingly, Richard Dawkins considers DNA-as-blueprint to be a bad analogy, claiming that using origami provides a much better one. “The main organization of the body is initially laid down by a series of foldings and invaginations of layer cells. Once the main body plan is safely in place, later stages in development consist largely of growth, as if the embryo were being inflated, in all its parts, like a balloon,” says Dawkins. Unlike most balloons, however, “different parts of the body inflate at different rates, the rates being carefully controlled,” Dawkins adds. The important point here is that cells know what to do in reference to adjacent cells. Dawkins claims that cells attract, repel, change shape, die and even secrete chemicals that may affect neighboring cells. “All cells contain the same genes,” says Dawkins, “so it can’t be their genes that distinguish cell behavior. What does distinguish a cell is which of the genes are turned on. Which usually is reflected in the gene products – proteins – that it contains.”

This leaves a lot of scope for variation in individual people, and perhaps external factors affect how genes turn on and off during this embryonic phase. Dawkins says that certain social and environmental conditions play an influential role in how the gene pool is divided. Religion, language, geographical location and social customs all ensure that mating is not just a random process. “I am suggesting that human culture has done very odd things to our genetics in the past,” says Dawkins. However, Dawkins also claims that taking the totality of our genes into account “we are a very uniform species,” and that these so called differences are mostly superfluous.

Recent studies show that autism and Asperger’s are not similar to those gene anomalies that Dawkins describes. Evidence is mounting to support suspicions that autism has genetic roots, and it is not peculiar to specific locales determined by culture or geography and is blind to cultural specifics.
Interestingly, Matt Ridley, author of Nature via Nurture, claims that those with Asperger’s disorder: “are more than twice as likely to have fathers and grandfathers who worked in engineering.” Ridley also says that on a “standard test of autistic tendencies, scientists generally score higher than non-scientists and physicists and engineers score higher than biologists.” Collectively, various experts claim that the prevalence of autism or autistic disorder is 1:1000, and Asperger’s disorder at anywhere from 1:150 to 1:500, depending on what you read. That’s quite a high figure, and it doesn’t include those who fit somewhere in between. On the face of it, then, we are looking at a society that has a full spectrum of ways of seeing and interpreting the world, and these perspectives and abilities might be passed on to our progeny.

A study conducted by the Mount Sinai School of Medicine, published in the American Journal of Psychiatry, claimed that no single gene produces Asperger’s disorder. Rather, the commonly accepted model states that it is a result of the accumulation of between five-to-ten genetic mutations. "Having one of these variants appears to approximately double an individuals risk for the disorder, but it is an accumulation of genetic factors that cause the disease,” said Joseph Buxbaum, Associate Professor of Psychiatry at Mount Sinai School of Medicine. "Identifying all or most of the genes involved will lead to new diagnostic tools and new approaches to treatment," Buxbaum added. Considering that the disorder affects so many parts of a person’s mental composition, any treatment for autism or Asperger’s may also change the person’s personality in fundamental ways; a point that researchers and medical practitioners might want to think about. Consider this statement from Jim Sinclair, who holds a BA in psychology, has autism himself, and also advocates for those with autistic disorder: “Autism isn't something a person has, or a shell that a person is trapped inside. There's no normal child hidden behind the autism. Autism is a way of being. It is pervasive; it colors every experience, every sensation, perception, thought, emotion and encounter - every aspect of existence. It is not possible to separate the autism from the person – and if it were possible, the person you'd have left would not be the same person you started with.”

Conditions such as autism and Asperger’s raise controversial questions on normalcy in society. If autism is proved conclusively to be biological, there is consequently nothing about autism that can be “cured”, without also changing the person in fundamental ways. But what is normal is also a moot point, and it seems that society and culture have a larger role to play in that respect. Describing the characteristics of certain animal survival techniques, Dawkins says that the “brain needs to construct a mental model of a three dimensional world.” All of these world models are constructed via different attributes like a keen sense of smell or sonar. Could certain conditions that we call “disorders” really be evolution at work?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 05:07 AM
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human evolution is over way too small of a time to observe any jurassic changes. also ants keep in mind have a population of billions, have their own disease problems, and run society very similar to how humans do. every thing humans do is natural, our big cities are all part of the wilderness. we are paprt of nature and therefore natural selection is occurin in us in every way every day, just on very tiny scales. give it time my friend and you can watch the human race evolve and eventully die off, just to give birth to a new species.
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