the meat vs vegan science thread.

Sorry about jacking peoples threads we will do our own now. Here is the place to argue about the science behind things like if meat is nessesary or bad or if raw veggies contain benificial enzymes.

Remember your most powerfully tool I'd an actual scientific lab study and not just theory. Though theory is a good tool too

I eat meat out of principle. Done:smoke:

If depends how you approach the subject of diet.

Contemporary western diet has us primarily motivated by the prevailing and often-conflicted health benefits of one diet over another. Recently the ethics market has generated a powerful ecological motivators in food selection - the 'buy local' movement.

Both, as an ideology, are flawed - and fails to appreciate two things; the cultural value of food, and the statistical-behavioral reality of human diet.

Glycation-altered proteolysis as a pathobiologic ... [Aging Cell. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Gorillas go green: Apes shed pounds while doubling calories on leafy diet, researcher finds

The Combination of High Fruit and Vegetable and Low Saturated Fat Intakes Is More Protective against Mortality in Aging Men than Is Either Alone: The Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging

Lowered methionine ingestion as respons... [Biochim Biophys Acta. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI

Some quick stuff. Gotta take the dog for a walk I'll try to find some more stuff later

::: THE CHINA STUDY :::

/thread

No, kidding. But seriously, this book proves a plant-based diet is much, much, much healthier than an animal-based diet. It could solve so many problems.

Awesome read, I recommend it to you all.

Edit: "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease ... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease. These results could not be ignored,"

^ Extremely broad summary of Dr. Campbells work. The book goes in to incredible detail.

Edited by Freshkush, 17 April 2012 - 03:22 PM.

I've been a vegetarian for about thirty years. I have a pretty poor diet compared to most vegetarians I think. I can't have wheat or anything from the potato family so I'm limited in choices. I'm not good taking supplements, I always forget, and I've never really been a big fan of salad. When I was growing up fruit was scarce, so it's not something I naturally include in my adult diet either. On the diet front, bit of a shambles really. I tend to 'graze' through bits of things, many not that good for me:), instead ofhaving actual meals. I also don't exercise enough...

However, I feel fine, nothing is hanging off me and I've reached *&^&^ without a major disease or even a broken bone. I'm fairly fit, have good stamina and am on weight for my size. It's not fair really, I shouldn't get away with it and I don't know why I do either. But I'm usually always doing something, either physically or mentally, so perhaps it's not letting the overall body system close down as we age rather than what we eat that might keep us young? I know we're not discussing what diet will keep us looking the youngest, but how we age is tied into the subject.

I've met people of 60/70/80/90 who looked and sounded perhaps up to 20 years younger than they were. In all cases they were people who were mentally active. Actually mentally active seems more important than physical, but obviously it does seem best if the two go hand in hand.

MelT

The only arguement I can bring to the table is that we are omnivores for a reason. Our bodies naturally seek food to sustain itself. Why would our bodies have adapted to both types of food sources if both were not important.

Whether they are important or not isn't the question, our bodies are designed as omnivores more likely for a survival reason, because it is proven we do not need both, some people live off meat only, atkins diet, my dad has done it on and off for like 30 years. And I know several guys who have done it and loved it.

I eat very healthy. Which started from being diagnosed with Celiac's, and then learning more about nutrition and diet and making up my own diet. In my eyes it's all about balance to peak health. Wild Fish, Organic meat and eggs, nuts and seeds, plenty of organic vegetables and fruits, I eat a huge salad everyday greens are a powerhouse for nutrients and minerals.

I'm also a fan of juicing and green smoothies, cleanse your organs and give your a body of surge of nutes. Nutrients, minerals and enzymes become up to 100x more available when juiced or blended.

But the argument between the two is just nonsense. If anything it's just a good thing that person is eating real food and not the garbage our American culture indulges. To me I'm someone who cares about taking care of my body, being in excellent shape, and feeling good mentally. Diet effects all very heavily.

Whether they are important or not isn't the question, our bodies are designed as omnivores more likely for a survival reason, because it is proven we do not need both, some people live off meat only, atkins diet, my dad has done it on and off for like 30 years. And I know several guys who have done it and loved it.

I eat very healthy. Which started from being diagnosed with Celiac's, and then learning more about nutrition and diet and making up my own diet. In my eyes it's all about balance to peak health. Wild Fish, Organic meat and eggs, nuts and seeds, plenty of organic vegetables and fruits, I eat a huge salad everyday greens are a powerhouse for nutrients and minerals.

I'm also a fan of juicing and green smoothies, cleanse your organs and give your a body of surge of nutes. Nutrients, minerals and enzymes become up to 100x more available when juiced or blended.

But the argument between the two is just nonsense. If anything it's just a good thing that person is eating real food and not the garbage our American culture indulges. To me I'm someone who cares about taking care of my body, being in excellent shape, and feeling good mentally. Diet effects all very heavily.

True. People live long and healthy lives and both meat and veggie diets. As long as you get what you need and balance and exercise and avoid poisons.

I've been a vegetarian for about thirty years. I have a pretty poor diet compared to most vegetarians I think. I can't have wheat or anything from the potato family so I'm limited in choices. I'm not good taking supplements, I always forget, and I've never really been a big fan of salad. When I was growing up fruit was scarce, so it's not something I naturally include in my adult diet either. On the diet front, bit of a shambles really. I tend to 'graze' through bits of things, many not that good for me:), instead ofhaving actual meals. I also don't exercise enough...

However, I feel fine, nothing is hanging off me and I've reached *&^&^ without a major disease or even a broken bone. I'm fairly fit, have good stamina and am on weight for my size. It's not fair really, I shouldn't get away with it and I don't know why I do either. But I'm usually always doing something, either physically or mentally, so perhaps it's not letting the overall body system close down as we age rather than what we eat that might keep us young? I know we're not discussing what diet will keep us looking the youngest, but how we age is tied into the subject.

I've met people of 60/70/80/90 who looked and sounded perhaps up to 20 years younger than they were. In all cases they were people who were mentally active. Actually mentally active seems more important than physical, but obviously it does seem best if the two go hand in hand.

MelT

I do believe that exercise and lifestyle are more important than diet.

I watched forks vs knives Forks Over Knives (2011) - IMDb, and went vegan for awhile as a result. I dont doubt that avoiding meat is healthier. Meat and cheese are still oh so tasty.

I've been a vegetarian for about thirty years. I have a pretty poor diet compared to most vegetarians I think. I can't have wheat or anything from the potato family so I'm limited in choices. I'm not good taking supplements, I always forget, and I've never really been a big fan of salad. When I was growing up fruit was scarce, so it's not something I naturally include in my adult diet either. On the diet front, bit of a shambles really. I tend to 'graze' through bits of things, many not that good for me:), instead ofhaving actual meals. I also don't exercise enough...

However, I feel fine, nothing is hanging off me and I've reached *&^&^ without a major disease or even a broken bone. I'm fairly fit, have good stamina and am on weight for my size. It's not fair really, I shouldn't get away with it and I don't know why I do either. But I'm usually always doing something, either physically or mentally, so perhaps it's not letting the overall body system close down as we age rather than what we eat that might keep us young? I know we're not discussing what diet will keep us looking the youngest, but how we age is tied into the subject.

I've met people of 60/70/80/90 who looked and sounded perhaps up to 20 years younger than they were. In all cases they were people who were mentally active. Actually mentally active seems more important than physical, but obviously it does seem best if the two go hand in hand.

MelT

Are you a nicotine smoker? I'm a vegetarian too and for 20 years had a diet similar to the one you describe, it had no consequences for me until I quit nicotine, then my whole body and eating habits changed. I always put nicotine down as the reason I was able to get away with my poor diet for so long. It surpresses your appetite for one thing, which means you can get away with eating a hell of a lot less than most people.

Are you a nicotine smoker? I'm a vegetarian too and for 20 years had a diet similar to the one you describe, it had no consequences for me until I quit nicotine, then my whole body and eating habits changed. I always put nicotine down as the reason I was able to get away with my poor diet for so long. It surpresses your appetite for one thing, which means you can get away with eating a hell of a lot less than most people.

No, I've only ever tried tobacco once as a teen and didn't like it, I haven't bothered since.

MelT

No, I've only ever tried tobacco once as a teen and didn't like it, I haven't bothered since.

MelT

Then I guess you're just lucky. Enjoy a mars bar for me.

No, I've only ever tried tobacco once as a teen and didn't like it, I haven't bothered since.

MelT

Same i actualy have a deep hatred torwards ciggs... I hate it when people hotbox there car with ciggs or they try to smoke ciggs in my car... Its like seriously u dont have common ciggarette smoking edicut.. And i try to tell my stubborn friends all the bads about 2nd hand smoke and they were in denial and thought i was lying until i seriously owned them! Found a book, multiple links and pictures... I honestly made some of my friends want to quit smoking... Suprisingly enough i no more about ciggarettes then all my friends who smoke ciggarettes...

physiologically we are herbivore's. historically we are omnivores. i personally am an omnivore but we are biologically herbivores... long intestines, alkaline saliva lack of fully developed canine's and so on.... meat has a tendency to get stuck in herbivores diverticuli

If we aren't supposed to eat animals why are they made of food?

I believe that it can go either way, even though i believe everyone should eat meat, for multiple reasons. But ever since the beginning when dinasaurs were around there we dinasaurs that specifcally eat meat and dinasaurs that specifically eat plants soo idk i believe you can survive and get the things u need just by eating plants. But im a meat person, love ribs and steak and chicken and the whole group of meats

I don't condone eating ground beef.
I've read some horror stories about the stuff that's been put into it in the past, just google "Pink Slime"

As for a nice slab of beef.. I have no problems with it. I enjoy a delicious rare steak now and again. And I enjoy meat with my potatoes.

I also like vegan cuisine, but to make that the sole basis of my diet.. It's just crazy to me.
But to get the full protein benefit that one gets from eating one type of beef, a vegan would have to combine foods carefully to make sure they're getting complete proteins, i.e. the proteins that contain essential amino acids. Rice and beans for example.

Really I don't think either side can be right. There are healthy ways to be an omnivore, and there are healthy ways to be a vegan.
It just seems that there are more ways to be unhealthy if one is an omnivore.

I just wish the extreme, self-absorbed vegans would go away.
There were a group of girls in my school would always talked about how bad meat is and tried to persuade people.
Get the FUCK out. I don't go around giving out pamphlets on why you should eat meat. Why should you give me one on why I shouldn't?

Same i actualy have a deep hatred torwards ciggs... I hate it when people hotbox there car with ciggs or they try to smoke ciggs in my car... Its like seriously u dont have common ciggarette smoking edicut.. And i try to tell my stubborn friends all the bads about 2nd hand smoke and they were in denial and thought i was lying until i seriously owned them! Found a book, multiple links and pictures... I honestly made some of my friends want to quit smoking... Suprisingly enough i no more about ciggarettes then all my friends who smoke ciggarettes...

Here I am sucking baggies full of weed smoke into my lungs, but I've never felt that it was doing as much harm as cigarette smoke. There's something a bit nasty about it that has always put me off. But sorry OP, we're moving away from diet here...

MelT