I made an exaggerated analogy. I did one thing that movie did. That movie did a lot more than that one thing. It's claiming that abortion is a holocaust without recognizing that forcing people to birth children is slavery. Protecting the Jews would not have meant slavery. The analogy in that movie is based on a false premise and comes in the form of a clever ambush. I compared your innocent message to an offensive message to make the point clearer, and that's all I did. Like putting an atheist billboard next to a Christian one. Except I put a nazi banner next to a nativity scene. The subject is people allegedly having to go to jail for their nativity displays (which btw, I think is probably completely made up since I've asked for and no one has provided any evidence). That implies that what they were doing is illegal. Then the person reporting them is called a dick. This is similar to calling a rape victim a dick for reporting a rape. See that? I just did it again. Exaggeration to make the point easier to see. Let's face it, it's the way you hear it that makes you want to call me a dick. You don't want to be reminded that you're irrational. That's not my problem. If God was a drug, you'd probably think me a dick for telling you you're addicted even though my intent might be to help you. Damn it! I keep doing it. Maybe when I see Christians stop giving up on being good in the present tense, I'll go back to church. I heard many people say many things about sins, but I don't think I ever heard someone say "well did you try not to sin?" It was just this curse - this affliction - something that sounded like it was done to them. And they're very sorry. They're responsible. Afterward. Which is good, but too many people are content to stop there. When someone else is driving your life, why would you bother trying to steer? "I can't be perfect!" No shit. There is more unknown than there is known about Jesus. He probably wasn't perfect, either. Or in the eyes of God, he is and we all are exactly what He made us to be. Expecting perfection is setting yourself up to fail. That cop out is just an excuse for failing. When people are pre-excused for failing, I think you can expect them to fail more.
I must have missed this because I never read it in the thread. Saying someone is irrational will not make them to think rationally. If anything it will spark an offensive emotion which will lead them even farther into their pit of irrationality. Either way, if you don't want to come across as a dick, don't say things in a dickish manner. That's the whole point of repentance and I realize many Christians missed that part of Jesus' message.
any and all atheists who still accept gifts or have anything to do with christmas/hannakuh etc activities are massive HYPOCRITES. i love calling out ppl who make a big deal that god/jesus isnt real but then get all pumped up for christmas. fuckin hypocrite man.....
It was 105 posts ago, so it's been awhile. Pretty much nothing will if reminding them they're irrational won't. I get that some people might react negatively, but some people might respond positively after reacting negatively. I have never seen a single fucking case of the words "celebrate reason" being used in a dickish manner. I can imagine how it might be done (coupled with mocking images of Jesus would accomplish it), but I've never seen it done. You don't want to hear it, calling what you don't want to hear "dickish" is just a dick move. The irony here is that if you'd listen to the request to celebrate reason, you'd realize that. I have not seen the atheist equivalent of "God hates fags," it's certainly not been on any billboards or messages I've seen posted on GC yet. Whole churches, dude. Honestly, I think there's a deeper point to all of it. Most of the time, morality should be effortless. That means a lot of effort initially in trying to understand it but that leads to it being something that just is. Dogmatic people are stuck in the front part of that formulation. If they are moral for something else (ie a god), its involuntary and meaningless and if they are moral for themselves they have to work to make it compatible with dogma. that's pretty much bullshit. a gift is a gift, it's rude to reject it. i know they're coming, so i get gifts to give in return because i don't like only receiving. i don't feel the need to be a downer on Christmas. it doesn't make me a hypocrite. i respect my family's wishes. i sing along with the carols even though i hate singing in front of people. i watch the videos of all the kids (including myself ), even though it's the same as last year most of the time. i do a lot of things i don't necessarily want to do. they're my family. they're not asking for a lot.
How is celebrating Saturn's majesty hypocritical? Oh, you mean all the people who think Christmas is a purely Christian holiday and celebrate it even though it has clear pagan origins and they do so by, even though God, in the Bible said to NOT do so, decorating a dying tree? I can agree with that. P.S. Christmas is a secular holiday and anyone who wants to is free to celebrate it without any religious attachments, blame corporations.
[quote name='"Postal Blowfish"'] It was 105 posts ago, so it's been awhile. Pretty much nothing will if reminding them they're irrational won't. I get that some people might react negatively, but some people might respond positively after reacting negatively. I have never seen a single fucking case of the words "celebrate reason" being used in a dickish manner. I can imagine how it might be done (coupled with mocking images of Jesus would accomplish it), but I've never seen it done. You don't want to hear it, calling what you don't want to hear "dickish" is just a dick move. The irony here is that if you'd listen to the request to celebrate reason, you'd realize that. I have not seen the atheist equivalent of "God hates fags," it's certainly not been on any billboards or messages I've seen posted on GC yet. Whole churches, dude. Honestly, I think there's a deeper point to all of it. Most of the time, morality should be effortless. That means a lot of effort initially in trying to understand it but that leads to it being something that just is. Dogmatic people are stuck in the front part of that formulation. If they are moral for something else (ie a god), its involuntary and meaningless and if they are moral for themselves they have to work to make it compatible with dogma. that's pretty much bullshit. a gift is a gift, it's rude to reject it. i know they're coming, so i get gifts to give in return because i don't like only receiving. i don't feel the need to be a downer on Christmas. it doesn't make me a hypocrite. i respect my family's wishes. i sing along with the carols even though i hate singing in front of people. i watch the videos of all the kids (including myself ), even though it's the same as last year most of the time. i do a lot of things i don't necessarily want to do. they're my family. they're not asking for a lot.[/quote] So your willing to take part of the holidays that actually affects your daily life because of your family, but think that it's bad when other families take part in their annual traditions? Like putting up a nativity? For some families, that's just part of their tradition. They do it with their kids, their family, friends. It seems to me that your idea of rational thinking is doing everything you can to make sure every single thing in this country is politically correct. Political correctness just makes me sick tbh. As for specific instances, I'd post some, but I'm on my phone, not a computer. Also for the whole court system allowing it to happen, you fail to realize that money and influence comes into play a LOT in any court battle. Most always whoever has the most money in their pockets wins, not necessarily who is really right. Just because someone wins a court battle, does not make them innocent or right. You're treating the situation like every one of these nativity sets that had to be taken down, were put up with ill intentions to convert your children. All I hear from you is excuses to be a jerk. Everything it seems from your side comes with the intention of making sure no one can influence anyone, anyway, any how, with anything. :-/
i still celebrate christmas. i dont really care what its suppost to represent to me its just a celebration and a time to be together.
like many of the atheists here, i also celebrate. but not for religious purposes. why do we need to have a religious purpose to come around and have a good time? we shouldn't, and that's how i look at it.
Oh for sure. I was just trying to answer your questions, but now I realize they were totally out of context lol. Sorry about that
celebrate with my family and they make me do church and praying and all that jazz even though they know im an atheist. lol
You're being deliberately short sighted again. The reason Christianity is the most targeted is because it's widespread, not because atheists "feel like God abandoned them" as you so ignorantly claim.. If I start seeing statues of Ganesh or Vishnu everywhere at Christmas then it'll be a valid point but until then it's a non-sequitor. I don't have a problem with religious people doing religious things in public so long as they don't preach at me, try to get me involved or attempt to leech money and willpower from people who were unfortunate enough to be tired and afraid. Basically evangelists being evangelists. Again, when I start seeing Wiccan symbols painted all over the place you'll have a point. Until then it's invalid. Not necessarily, but i'll be fair. If I was religious and people told me to take stuff down because it offended them then I'd just put even more up and be even louder. Christmas is nothing more than a bastardization of a Pagan festival. Christians who celebrate this holiday but claim to not believe in Pagan deities are hypocrites by your logic. I like Christmas because I get to see my family, drink an insane amount of booze, get (and give) presents and eat nice food. I see no Jesus there. And this is not a good idea because?
It's not a good idea because in literal terms, no influence at all, means zero communication. We are influenced in even a tiny, minute way by every single thing we are consciously and unconsciously aware of. Everything we see, hear, taste, feel, and smell is taken into account, building up in our mind, forming our personalities and behaviours. There is a point though, where it goes from passively recognizing your environment, to whatever being pushed into your attention with the intention of trying to make you take a larger account of it than normal. I guess it's just a matter of finding that balance. But then again, it's impossible to make everyone happy.
I said all of that at no point ever in this conversation. I try not to tell other people how to go about their lives. When you don't want to show me exactly what incident caused a person to go to jail over their nativity scene so I can see exactly what the fuck happened, I'm gonna assume you're making that shit up. My point has always been - even if you're not making it up - if someone is forced by law to take down a nativity, it means it was illegal. There is nothing wrong with reporting a crime to the authorities. It seems to me that you need some kind of a strawman to bash, so you're just making shit up about me. Why don't you cry about it. That'll probably get someone to stop doing it. You realize there are churches in this country that are bigger than some of the towns in it, right?? Yeah, money plays a big role. There is huge money behind churches and religious political institutions. What are they up against? The fucking ACLU. Supermegachurch donations against donations to a widely demonized organization. You have to have a really warped sense of reality to think the problem with the legality involves fucking money. It involves the constitution, usually. No one fucking pays a state supreme court to decide that it's unconstitutional to ban gays from marriage (for example). If anything, they pay to fucking evict those judges. Fuck arguing this. Show us a fucking example so we can talk about something that actually happened. Call me a jerk if you want, I think you're worse for shitting on people for not being a certain way and not even giving us a solid example to talk about. It's just yet another fucking excuse to shit on atheism. Like there's not enough of that.
I'm an atheist and Christmas is my favorite holiday/time of the year(besides summer, of course..). I love giving/getting presents and all the family traditions that come with it. Just an all around kick ass holiday that doesn't need to be dragged down with bullshit religious debates. Just my .02
If you say so. A large amount if people think the same thing I do. Lets just agree to disagree I guess. All we are doing is frustrating each other. Again, I'll be more than willing to pull up some cases when I can get on a computer.
A lot of people just want an excuse to crap all over atheists. I'll grant you that some atheists are annoying people, but a lot of the time sentiments like this are basically just an excuse to cry about atheism.
[quote name='"Postal Blowfish"']A lot of people just want an excuse to crap all over atheists. I'll grant you that some atheists are annoying people, but a lot of the time sentiments like this are basically just an excuse to cry about atheism.[/quote] I have almost nothing against Athiesm, I could still even consider myself one and I was an Athiest for most all of my life, but just now I have specific beliefs after death. For years though, my only religious preference was Athiesm. I'm not necessarily bashing on Athiests, just the action. It just happens that most of the news I see talking about it targets them. I'm personally in no way criticizing -just- Athiests. It just happens to be part of the subject that I brought up.
See, you weren't full of shit until you said "any and all" (first words actually, got you off to a full-of-shit start) My family is entirely unreligious (ranging from spiritual agnostic, to hardcore atheists), but we gather each year to exchange gifts, share in good food, listen to holiday music, talk, laugh, and maybe read a Xmas story (when we were younger). You have no right to tell me i can't do that. God didn't create the holiday, people did. Jesus was born in the spring. It was originally a pagan celebration. Easter is a pagan holiday celebrating the spring goddess oestre whose symbol was a rabbit. but no, if my kids look for eggs then they are hypocrites!!! No atheist gets pumped for xmas for going to mass and loving jesus, they get pumped from time off, for seeing family, for exchanging gifts, etc. That is strictly secular. Learn your holiday history, and learn to recognize nuances. you sound like a bafoon otherwise. And the atheist who talk about god not being real don't do it to shit on xmas, they do it because religion often negatively impacts their lives or the world, or they just want to help people think critically. You seem incredibly rude, intolerant, and uneducated when you post things like this. MERRY CHRISTMASSSSSSS! -Sincerely, Atheist. PS Christmas has more to do historically with Solstice than Jesus. Hence all the other current or past winter celebrations. It's the beginning of the returning of the light. The shortest days of the year are gone, and a new hope of spring, rebirth, warmth, comes upon us. The celebration of this is transcultural because it is a shared human experience