Why a Universal Creator is unlikely

I admit I am a bit agitated right now, I just can't take it when people don't see eye to eye. There should be a common ground when debating philosophy, something that they can bridge their experiences off of. But most of the time I just see people ignoring other's points, so I will attempt to articulate what I mention in my title, in the best possible way so that no one can disagree. To simplify, this should be fairly straight forward for anyone to understand, and there should be no way to argument with it. It is merely to highlight human perspective.

Here goes, there is a being of unmatched intellect that is just there he was always there and will always be there. What is his origin.

That is a problem, everything has an origin, yet God just pops there. In order for a God to come into being, keep in mind God in this sense is an omnipotent super being, another God has to create it. There will be an infinite chain of Gods in this explaination.

How would a God just be? Where does a God come from? At what point does he decide to create a universe? There are gaping holes in a universe creator theory.


I am not an atheist, merely putting this subject into perspective.



And no there is no evidence of anything being created, quite the contrary. We have Big Bang, Evolution, and observable similarities.
Existence of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Believers have nothing, just faith. Not even taking into account Gods that are founded in religions, those are shown to be non-sensible just by cross comparing them against each other.


The biggest nitpick I have with a universe creator is that most believers asert either knowing or not knowing that we are the last thing to be made, we are what the universe was amounting to. Okay universe job well done you can stop now, we are here, boo yah!!

There is NOTHING I repeat NOTHING that suggest we are the last step along the way, that we are special, that is complete bullshit. In order to make such a claim you must admit that there wont be farther improvements of us down the line.

that is all I hope I get some weed tomorrow I need it.

I also wonder how God came into being, just because we dont have an answer yet doesnt mean a creator is unlikely.

Nobody is saying we're the only thing special in this world. The world, consciousness, life and the universe as a whole is special.

Besides, an afterlife implies that there will be more to life. Believers arent assuming that "this is all there is."

Edited by Kush Lord, 16 June 2012 - 04:31 AM.

It was just always there.

The universe wasn't though. That would be ridiculous

I built this computer. That is precedent for my belief that everything in the universe was created by something for which there is no precedent.

Why do you extend faith to an intelligence that that has no origin, yet you don't see eye to eye with scientists that so far have proven that the universe had to exist, had to be made. There is no evidence that God exists, and all too much evidence for a universe coming together through causality.

There will never ever be evidence for a God that just is there. And there isn't any sense in claiming that God exists through a chain of Gods. A Universe without God just makes sense.

Why do you extend faith to an intelligence that that has no origin, yet you don't see eye to eye with scientists that so far have proven that the universe had to exist, had to be made. There is no evidence that God exists, and all too much evidence for a universe coming together through causality.

There will never ever be evidence for a God that just is there. And there isn't any sense in claiming that God exists through a chain of Gods. A Universe without God just makes sense.

Science hasnt figured out how the world came to be, not even close. I'm not even against science so i'm not sure what you're talking about now.

Not completely, but that isn't what I said. I said there is evidence going for all the current scientific theories right now, so now I don't know who you are trying to fool besides yourself.

i feel you...
but who made weed then?
spontaneous existence out of nowhere:confused_2:

Not completely, but that isn't what I said. I said there is evidence going for all the current scientific theories right now, so now I don't know who you are trying to fool besides yourself.

I dont even know what you're trying to say anymore. Science hasnt disproven God in any way.

i feel you...
but who made weed then?
spontaneous existence out of nowhere:confused_2:

Millions of years of evolution, it has been suggested that since the endocannabiniod system of the plant resembles ours so readily that we may have had a co-evolutionary relationship with the plant.

I dont even know what you're trying to say anymore. Science hasnt disproven God in any way.

God cannot be proven or disproven, it is an unverifiable claim. Latest science however points in the direction of their being no God in the universe.

In laymen terms, A Universal Creator is unlikely.

Edited by Ninja20p, 16 June 2012 - 05:55 AM.

Millions of years of evolution, it has been suggested that since the endocannabiniod system of the plant resembles ours so readily that we may have had a co-evolutionary relationship with the plant.



God cannot be proven or disproven, it is an unverifiable claim. Latest science however points in the direction of their being no God in the universe.

In laymen terms, A Universal Creator is unlikely.

No, "science" has not pointed to that at all. You are misrepresenting "science."

You act like a group of people own the scientific method or something.

No, "science" has not pointed to that at all. You are misrepresenting "science."

You act like a group of people own the scientific method or something.

What direction does a Universe that can come into being on its own accord point to.

What direction does a Universe that can come into being on its own accord point to.

The furthest science has gone is the big bang, there is still a lot left to discover.

Coming from times when religious explanations were default, and relative to that type of environment science has been steadily ruling out those explanations. Removing "GOD" as a necessary explanation to things doesn't give any evidence against a god. You can't prove a negative.

But you can create a precedent by consistently ruling out the positive claim. If the explanation that doesn't need a god has evidence and the one that does need a god doesn't, you sort of have to be stubborn to keep pretending after that. People who keep pretending aren't proving anything, but it's not like they matter. That behavior is insane, and I'll show how:

They're standing in a line to see their favorite artist play. The show has been canceled, but they're going to keep waiting in line anyway because that show could still happen! And they're gonna have the BEST tickets!

People open to view revisions will see the distinction between rational and irrational thinking.

Edited by Postal Blowfish, 16 June 2012 - 06:22 AM.

The furthest science has gone is the big bang, there is still a lot left to discover.

So God of the gaps argument?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HooeZrC76s0]God of the Gaps & Frontier of Knowledge - Neil deGrasse Tyson - YouTube[/ame]

No, more like "science hasnt discovered everything argument"

My belief in God isnt merely to "fill in the gaps"

God damn. Neil just said something I've been thinking for a week.

"What would bother me is if you were so content in that answer that you no longer had curiosity to learn how it happened."

I'll remember that every time someone laughs at my reasoning of their foolishness.

^ Okay, it's not the god of the gaps argument. It's like how marriage discriminators aren't bigoted.

What is your definition of rational thinking?

No, more like "science hasnt discovered everything argument"

My belief in God isnt merely to "fill in the gaps"

Then there shouldn't be a positive belief in a god, it's irrational.

What is your definition of rational thinking?

Not making unnecessary steps in your logical thinking patterns, ie a God being required to create a universe.

The Big Bang theory is funny. It makes me laugh. Not because it's wrong, but simply because many people take it as an anti-god explanation for existence. It's only a theory, just like all scientific models are theories. I'm not saying that it is incorrect, I'm just saying that the perspective it has is so incredibly far from the truth -- because it is only looking at physical matter, physical processes, when there is so much more than that.

Many of these "well-formed" theories about the universe today are inherently flawed. Why? Because the Scientific Method is still in it's baby-years. Not because the scientific method itself is wrong, but because the people, who carry out observation upon observation in the pursuit of knowledge, (which is quite a noble pursuit) are flawed. I don't mean that in a mean kind of way, it is simply a matter-of-fact. One would think that this has nothing to do with the pursuit of truth, yet it just so happens that it has absolutely everything to do with the pursuit of truth.

If one should truly want to know, then one would give up all this silly speculation in favour of the higher life instantly, where every single burning question you've ever had is answered much more sufficiently than you could ever imagine.

The first step towards this, is understanding and accepting that the physical world is not all that there is; that there are many, many higher states of matter which simply vibrate more rapidly than physical matter vibrates, and that it is possible to scientifically observe and document these higher forms of matter. This is the most fundamental truth, and it is a very real truth. It is truly the most fundamental thing one could grasp.

Even speaking solely of the physical world, there are states of matter which the world is quite ignorant of, yet these states of matter exist purely in the physical world! Still, the widely-accepted models of the universe absolutely require that some sort of "invisible" matter exists, without which the models just don't make sense. I'm talking, of course, of "dark matter." This is known as the etheric states of matter as far as most esoteric circles are concerned, though a better name could've been chosen as it is slightly misleading. Etheric matter of a similar type which planets have, also exist in our fleshy human bodies -- they run along specific channels of the body. Eastern medicine is quite acquainted with them, and is therefore a bit more advanced than Western medicine in that respect.

It is through the steady refinement of one's own character that one slowly becomes able to receive astral impressions from without, and is therefore able to understand the universe in a higher way -- in a different language, as it were. This is the only way, and with this image in-mind, the idea of a God helps very much to inspire the necessary devotion which is required in order to raise and evolve the character. Once one is able to operate in higher ways, one is able to explore and observe the physical world to their heart's content; to carry out investigations under the guidance of the scientific method, which is quite a necessary thing to do, especially in the beginning of the process. Only once the character has been made practically perfect, can the true exploration of phenomenon be made using the mind.

In this way you wouldn't be so sorely confined and limited to observing things only belonging to the physical world.

Quite a different way of looking at things for most people.

Edited by seagoat, 17 June 2012 - 04:10 AM.

My reasoning for a creator of the universe-

Everything that begins to exist must have a cause.

Science has shown the universe had a beginning point for time space and matter.

If the universe began to exist, it must require an external cause.

It is impossible for nothing to create something, therefore something has always existed, if the universe hasn't always existed, something beyond it must.

Whatever this is (I believe it's a force of intelligence/consciousness) must be eternal and must have caused the univese, therefore being the eternal uncaused creative force that created the universe, therefore being a universal creator.

It is very hard for us to comprehend something such as a force being aware, because it is almost imaginable to us (until recent discoveries in quantum mechanics) so over the years we have personified this force into a human like God that we could relate to easier.