Experiment: "Smoking Stems" to end the debate

varyouga · #1 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:43 PM

I've been lurking here for a while and noticed every week or so, there's another thread about "smoking stems". Some people swear by them and others say the "high" is nothing more than your brain cells dying from lack of oxygen. I wanted to finally settle this debate or at least provide some new information.

Today, I'm going to attempt to extract any THC present in stems by vaporizing and report on the results.

Here are the conditions-

1- I saved the stems from a half oz of no-name mids (will try it on dank next time if this experiment is inconclusive). The total weight of the dried stems is 1g(they weighed a bit more when fresh). They are random sized stems that you would normally throw away from a half. The largest stem is 4mm thick.

2- I will be grinding the stems to a powder in my coffee grinder for max surface area. All dust/keif will be collected from the grinder with a brush.

3. I will be vaping it in my homemade Volcano-style vape at 395F until no visible vapor is present. This is smokeless so I will get no effect at all if THC is not present.

4. My normal medical dose with this bud is 0.2g vaporized. I will be using 5X as much stems and inhaling until I either run out or my symptoms stop. My dose is very consistent so this will give me a very good idea of the THC content versus buds.

Before I start, I just wanted some feedback/suggestions from the city to make the experiment better.

Edit: To prevent cross-contamination, I'm using a new vapor bag and cleaning the vapor screens with alcohol. I'm also cleaning the grinder with alcohol before starting. I'm finishing up work and starting soon!

Edit: RESULTS AND PICS ARE HERE!

A pic of the stems before grinding. They were picked carefully of any traces of buds by hand. Most people leave some bud on their stems so those should be more potent.

Pic of the stems after grinding. This is the finest I could get it. Notice the sticky specs. They appear to be either keif or sticky stem dust. I don't have a magnifier to check.

The stems loaded into my vape screen. I brushed all the dust into the right side. **sorry, no pics of the unit as I am in the process of bringing it to the market**

Stems after vaping once at 395F. The resulting vapor was VERY light for 1g of plant but still visible. I took 12 hits from the bag and held for 15sec each. There was no noticeable taste or flavor. I didn't feel much but noticed some green left in the stems and powder. The stems most likely released the latent moisture locked inside but many of them didn't get hot enough to fully vape. I crushed them and decided to reload the dry stems for another bag.

Stems after crushing and vaping again. This time the vapor was much thicker and very visible. No taste. It was smoother than vaping buds. This is probably because THC is a slight irritant and this vapor had so damn little of it. I vaped again and no visible vapor came out.

Observations/Results: I definitely felt a very, very small amount of THC. The HIGHEST estimate I can give is 1 vapor hit of a normal dose for me. This is 1/12 of a 0.20g vape bag. This means that stems are at MOST 1/60 the strength of buds.

30 minutes have passed since I vaped and I no longer feel anything.

Conclusions: DON'T SMOKE STEMS. Even with my highest estimate, you'd have to smoke 60X as much stems as you would buds. Meaning at least 60X the tar for the same effect. Only smoke stems if you have absolutely no respect for your body and wouldn't mind smoking eighths of them.

One exception- It would work for those with a very low tolerance and dank stems. I know a few people that smoke rarely and need only 0.01-0.02g of dank through my vape. Using 60X, they would get high from vaping 0.6-1.2g of stems(~1-2g smoked). They are better off taking a tiny hit of bud than smoking 1-2g of stems. People that smoke that rarely won't have that many stems anyway.

Now, Vaping the stems was not harsh at all and would theoretically work with the right machine. The only problem is I could never fit that much stems in mine at one time and I don't have the patience to inhale 10 bags for a single dose. Nor am I willing to collect a half oz of stems for one dose.

Unless you're psychotically cheap, you can confidently dump your stems now.

buffalojustin · #2 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:47 PM

hm, interesting

jminnich500 · #3 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:50 PM

seems like everything is planned out pretty well, if you dont mind me asking what are the conditions for your medical?

carry on watson

GolgiApparatus · #4 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:54 PM

sounds like a good plan! Just be careful of any seeds which might end up in the bunch XD

drig_smoker · #5 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:55 PM

Props to the OP, finally someone who is willing to set the ever so long going debate if stems can get you fucked..

Whenever i brake up nugs, i always stare at the stems that i pull off. they is always some visible fur on them(trichs)

i think itll work/ i guess we'll see in a little bit?

toke on those stems bro

#6 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 05:00 PM

Lets hear the verdict!

SensiBucc · #7 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 05:41 PM

word weres da veredict!

hpidriver · #8 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 06:16 PM

Cool thread I guess, but it's pretty simple, stems don't have THC thus won't get you high. The only way is if there is enough kief/trichome material on them to get high.

Sir Tokes Alot · #9 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varyouga

I've been lurking here for a while and noticed every week or so, there's another thread about "smoking stems". Some people swear by them and others say the "high" is nothing more than your brain cells dying from lack of oxygen. I wanted to finally settle this debate or at least provide some new information.

Today, I'm going to attempt to extract any THC present in stems by vaporizing and report on the results.

Here are the conditions-

1- I saved the stems from a half oz of no-name mids (will try it on dank next time if this experiment is inconclusive). The total weight of the dried stems is 1g(they weighed a bit more when fresh). They are random sized stems that you would normally throw away from a half. The largest stem is 4mm thick.

2- I will be grinding the stems to a powder in my coffee grinder for max surface area. All dust/keif will be collected from the grinder with a brush.

3. I will be vaping it in my homemade Volcano-style vape at 395F until no visible vapor is present. This is smokeless so I will get no effect at all if THC is not present.

4. My normal medical dose with this bud is 0.2g vaporized. I will be using 5X as much stems and inhaling until I either run out or my symptoms stop. My dose is very consistent so this will give me a very good idea of the THC content versus buds.

Before I start, I just wanted some feedback/suggestions from the city to make the experiment better.

Go for it.

Talventaivas · #10 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 06:23 PM

For a true experimental design, you need a control sample. Eg. vaporize something that you know has no THC content in it. For all intents and purposes, this probably doesn't need a control since it's not a true scientific study or anything.

Sorry, I just had to make this comment!

turdo · #11 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 06:27 PM

Shit this is going to be a good one. Go for it! I want to hear the results!

verde622 · #12 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 06:41 PM

You need a control right?

varyouga · #13 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talventaivas

For a true experimental design, you need a control sample. Eg. vaporize something that you know has no THC content in it. For all intents and purposes, this probably doesn't need a control since it's not a true scientific study or anything.

Sorry, I just had to make this comment!

Well, for a true scientific study I'd have to break out a gas spectrometer. I'm not willing to spend thousands on testing stems. LOL. I'm trying to see if stems get you high or if it's just the smoke making a placebo effect.

For the control, I've vaped all kinds of "legal buds" and most of them didn't do a damn thing. It was the same as inhaling flavored steam.

The only legal bud that worked was Spice Gold. Yes, it does vaporize wonderfully and you don't have to hit that harsh smoke that normally comes from it. It's just more expensive than MJ and doesn't help my problem so I don't buy it. I would use Spice for fun if I couldn't use MJ.

varyouga · #14 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jminnich500

seems like everything is planned out pretty well, if you dont mind me asking what are the conditions for your medical?

carry on watson

I have Asperger's with very bad sensory symptoms. It's almost painful for me to be touched so I use bud for situations where I want to be touched. Also, If I'm having a panic attack MJ calms me down without making me feel like a zombie.

The "side-effect" of MJ is that it makes life more fun and senses enjoyable. The side-effect of Rx drugs is they make me feel dead and numb.

INS the Rebel · #15 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 07:07 PM

uh wouldnt your control be your normal state (taking a sugar pill doesnt have any effect unless you dont know its a sugar pill, thus making it a control placaebo and a control.) otherwise (and please correct me if i'm wrong but i dont have any degrees on the subject specifially) i think you have a control built in (its called waking up in the morning and not being stoned)

if you were to truely "experiment" as our well informed friend has suggested, you would have to do it randomly, and on subjects without knowledge of what it was that you were intending to do. you cannot be your own control in this experiement, reguardless of method.

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#1 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 04:43 PM
varyouga Bud Saver Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 738	Experiment: "Smoking Stems" to end the debate I've been lurking here for a while and noticed every week or so, there's another thread about "smoking stems". Some people swear by them and others say the "high" is nothing more than your brain cells dying from lack of oxygen. I wanted to finally settle this debate or at least provide some new information. Today, I'm going to attempt to extract any THC present in stems by vaporizing and report on the results. Here are the conditions- 1- I saved the stems from a half oz of no-name mids (will try it on dank next time if this experiment is inconclusive). The total weight of the dried stems is 1g(they weighed a bit more when fresh). They are random sized stems that you would normally throw away from a half. The largest stem is 4mm thick. 2- I will be grinding the stems to a powder in my coffee grinder for max surface area. All dust/keif will be collected from the grinder with a brush. 3. I will be vaping it in my homemade Volcano-style vape at 395F until no visible vapor is present. This is smokeless so I will get no effect at all if THC is not present. 4. My normal medical dose with this bud is 0.2g vaporized. I will be using 5X as much stems and inhaling until I either run out or my symptoms stop. My dose is very consistent so this will give me a very good idea of the THC content versus buds. Before I start, I just wanted some feedback/suggestions from the city to make the experiment better. Edit: To prevent cross-contamination, I'm using a new vapor bag and cleaning the vapor screens with alcohol. I'm also cleaning the grinder with alcohol before starting. I'm finishing up work and starting soon! Edit: RESULTS AND PICS ARE HERE! A pic of the stems before grinding. They were picked carefully of any traces of buds by hand. Most people leave some bud on their stems so those should be more potent. Pic of the stems after grinding. This is the finest I could get it. Notice the sticky specs. They appear to be either keif or sticky stem dust. I don't have a magnifier to check. The stems loaded into my vape screen. I brushed all the dust into the right side. sorry, no pics of the unit as I am in the process of bringing it to the market Stems after vaping once at 395F. The resulting vapor was VERY light for 1g of plant but still visible. I took 12 hits from the bag and held for 15sec each. There was no noticeable taste or flavor. I didn't feel much but noticed some green left in the stems and powder. The stems most likely released the latent moisture locked inside but many of them didn't get hot enough to fully vape. I crushed them and decided to reload the dry stems for another bag. Stems after crushing and vaping again. This time the vapor was much thicker and very visible. No taste. It was smoother than vaping buds. This is probably because THC is a slight irritant and this vapor had so damn little of it. I vaped again and no visible vapor came out. Observations/Results: I definitely felt a very, very small amount of THC. The HIGHEST estimate I can give is 1 vapor hit of a normal dose for me. This is 1/12 of a 0.20g vape bag. This means that stems are at MOST 1/60 the strength of buds. 30 minutes have passed since I vaped and I no longer feel anything. Conclusions: DON'T SMOKE STEMS. Even with my highest estimate, you'd have to smoke 60X as much stems as you would buds. Meaning at least 60X the tar for the same effect. Only smoke stems if you have absolutely no respect for your body and wouldn't mind smoking eighths of them. One exception- It would work for those with a very low tolerance and dank stems. I know a few people that smoke rarely and need only 0.01-0.02g of dank through my vape. Using 60X, they would get high from vaping 0.6-1.2g of stems(~1-2g smoked). They are better off taking a tiny hit of bud than smoking 1-2g of stems. People that smoke that rarely won't have that many stems anyway. Now, Vaping the stems was not harsh at all and would theoretically work with the right machine. The only problem is I could never fit that much stems in mine at one time and I don't have the patience to inhale 10 bags for a single dose. Nor am I willing to collect a half oz of stems for one dose. Unless you're psychotically cheap, you can confidently dump your stems now. __________________ Pro engineer stoner. Vaporizer builder. Efficiency is my middle name. Medical MJ saved my life. Death to Big Pharma, Big Tobacco and their DEA thugs. Last edited by varyouga; 07-03-2008 at 01:43 AM.

#2 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 04:47 PM
buffalojustin Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 363	hm, interesting

#3 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 04:50 PM
jminnich500 Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mays landing Posts: 1,548	seems like everything is planned out pretty well, if you dont mind me asking what are the conditions for your medical? carry on watson

#4 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 04:54 PM
GolgiApparatus The Duke of Dank Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,497 Blog Entries: 2	sounds like a good plan! Just be careful of any seeds which might end up in the bunch XD __________________

#6 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 05:00 PM
jakelandisgs Guest Posts: n/a	Lets hear the verdict!

#7 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 05:41 PM
SensiBucc Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 148	word weres da veredict!

#8 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 06:16 PM
hpidriver floatin on the layer cake Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: west coast, east coast Posts: 2,966 Blog Entries: 1	Cool thread I guess, but it's pretty simple, stems don't have THC thus won't get you high. The only way is if there is enough kief/trichome material on them to get high. __________________ KWISO {how-to tutorial} \|\| DIY Kief Press {step x step pictorial} \|\| 7g batch Hog's Breath QWISO *Glass by:* ~@**RooЯ //Sovereignty//TORO//arty//Preston Hanna//LukeWilson//Blue//ukiah//ZachP//Thane*//Cowboy//Sling/Snic***@~

#10 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 06:23 PM
Talventaivas under the northern sky Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Currently in Turku, Finland Posts: 282	For a true experimental design, you need a control sample. Eg. vaporize something that you know has no THC content in it. For all intents and purposes, this probably doesn't need a control since it's not a true scientific study or anything. Sorry, I just had to make this comment! __________________ Biologist. - working in Turku, Finland. "Jamaicans have other interests, which is why the limbo team got detained at the airport..." -Hermes Conrad "I am not a crook's head!" -Richard Nixon's head

#11 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 06:27 PM
turdo tw33k3r Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 460	Shit this is going to be a good one. Go for it! I want to hear the results! __________________ PM if you want to play me in CS:S, WC3 FT or COD4 [PC GAMER]

#12 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 06:41 PM
verde622 Green Smoke Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ithaca Posts: 618	You need a control right?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

#15 (permalink) 07-02-2008, 07:07 PM
INS the Rebel Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 674	uh wouldnt your control be your normal state (taking a sugar pill doesnt have any effect unless you dont know its a sugar pill, thus making it a control placaebo and a control.) otherwise (and please correct me if i'm wrong but i dont have any degrees on the subject specifially) i think you have a control built in (its called waking up in the morning and not being stoned) if you were to truely "experiment" as our well informed friend has suggested, you would have to do it randomly, and on subjects without knowledge of what it was that you were intending to do. you cannot be your own control in this experiement, reguardless of method.