Obama Is Average.

[edward]

Originally Posted by Rebeltoker86

In the nine months that Obama has been in office ha has: 1.) Passed an economic stimulus bill

Has this has any positive effect? Unemployment continues to climb and market indicators are still headed in the wrong direction. Even if it did have a positive effect, the stimulus money is stolen from taxpayers in a completely coercive and unconstitutional way.

Originally Posted by Rebeltoker86

3.) Made the most progress toward Health care reform in American history.

Progress would be restoring the free market to the health care system and making sure that insurance companies stop getting a free ride, not socializing the system in a way that gives an already corrupt government MORE power and charges taxpayers for services that they may not use against their will.

Originally Posted by Rebeltoker86

4.) Closed Guantanamo Bay, one of America's most unconstitutional prison.

So now when they take you away it will be to shit who knows where...

Originally Posted by Rebeltoker86

5.) Upheld the his commitment to allow states to offer Medical Marijuana... do I really need to say more about what Obama has done?

This is the only real "progress" in your list. Yet the unconstitutional, crime-producing war on drugs continues. I guess some people are satisfied with crumbs...

Bailouts, wars, illegal protest arrests, the big brother state, deficit spending, the Fed, the war on drugs - it all continues.

[lovetobtokn]

Originally Posted by willisvillis

Has torture saved thousands of lives?

I believw there have been instances where it has been effective. If a pow is taken and they are affiliated with terrorist organizations that have murdered thousands or they are involved in activities of such, i believe "fuck em" and anyone who is worried about this persons rights as a murderer or as a person who is affiliated with murderers and was involved in the plot then i feel is a peice of shit.. And even in certain cases where we may not have gotten any information, its a fucking terrorist, i would do anything to potentially save innocent lives.

Btw i completely agree with the above post.

Regardless i think politics = misinformation and lies to get votes and have power. They try to appeal to the largest majority possible and saying ur gonna give everyone shit is basically a win hah.

[Dronetek]

Originally Posted by MountyBounty

I totally agree with you, a black president is unique. It's a great thing that the American people can overlook skin color .

They aren't ignoring his skin color though! Its the main focus of his presidency! The media attacks all of his critics as racists for fuck sake!

Originally Posted by Rebeltoker86

Interesting interview. However, I think in America we fail to acknowledge the influence Obama has had on the way the rest of the world views us.

More DNC talking points treated as reality. What a load of utter bullshit. How old are you? 16? The world has always disliked America, it didn't start with Bush and it wont end under Obama. What has Obama done to make everyone like him so much and what tangible benefits has it produced?

[EbencoyE]

Originally Posted by edward

No, because Bush wasn't conservative, silly.

Who voted for him then? Liberals?

[kstigs]

Originally Posted by Rebeltoker86

In the nine months that Obama has been in office ha has: 1.) Passed an economic stimulus bill. 2.) Improved America's image around the world. 3.) Made the most progress toward Health care reform in American history. 4.) Closed Guantanamo Bay, one of America's most unconstitutional prison. 5.) Upheld the his commitment to allow states to offer Medical Marijuana... do I really need to say more about what Obama has done?

Regardless of whether or not you agree with what he has done you must acknowledge that he has accomplished a lot in his term thus far.

As for being self-righteous and elitist please provide support for this statement, because I fail to see any evidence of this.

1) What did that do? I'll give you that it may have created some jobs, but we're still losing jobs at an extremely rapid rate.

2) A lot of people still hate us and we're creating more and more every single day in the Middle East. I'll give you that he may have won over some Europeans and some of the more moderate Muslims, but at the same time he's creating more hate for the US in places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq.

3) He's made progress to almost passing reform. This one is just complete bullshit. I'll believe that he passed health care reforms when he actually does it and it works. All the bills I've looked at don't seem address a lot of the main problems with health care and with all the corruption in Washington, it's no wonder that the lobbyists are basically writing the bill.

4) It's not closed yet.

5) He stopped DEA raids on law-abiding medical marijuana dispensaries in California. He didn't allow states to have medical marijuana. All he did was decide to not to enforce federal law.

Please go on with Obama's "accomplishments." How many innocent civilians have died in drone attacks since Obama took office? We'll probably never know.

[NateRiver]

Originally Posted by edward

No, because Bush wasn't conservative, silly.

When you state that god is one consciousness to which every human adds knowledge, you have lost the right to call anyone silly.

Conservatives, including the interviewee, were strongly in support of Bush. To claim otherwise is blatantly ignorant.

[lovetobtokn]

Originally Posted by NateRiver

When you state that god is one consciousness to which every human adds knowledge, you have lost the right to call anyone silly.

Conservatives, including the interviewee, were strongly in support of Bush. To claim otherwise is blatantly ignorant.

Actually, a majority of people vote democratic or republican just for that very reason, the name. He said bush wasn't conservative, and if his policies were looked at, it would reinforce that notion because he and and obama are pretty close to eachother as far as policy, domestic and foreign. However, he was, by name, a republican so people voted for him merely for that reason...

and how exactly does bashing someone because of their opinion on what god is make u any smarter? noone is 100% correct when it comes to that subject, because noone knows...

[TheDankery]

Originally Posted by lovetobtokn

...But i for one dont appreciate how negatively everyone views the us bc regardless the world would be a worse place without us and that is a fact. Who would have saved europe from germany, who would stand up for israel and other countries in similar situations...

I don't want to jump all over that little statement there but I think Israel can stand up for itself without the 7 million dollars + a day we give them in aid to occupy and murder the Palestinan people. Funding Israel's continual occupation of Palestinian land and killing of Palestinian people is not something to be proud of.

[NateRiver]

Originally Posted by lovetobtokn

Actually, a majority of people vote democratic or republican just for that very reason, the name. He said bush wasn't conservative, and if his policies were looked at, it would reinforce that notion because he and and obama are pretty close to eachother as far as policy, domestic and foreign. However, he was, by name, a republican so people voted for him merely for that reason...

You say 'actually' without contradicting a single thing I said. I referred to conservatives such as this interviewee, and they do not support people merely because of their political party. If you don't know who Charles Krauthammer is then you shouldn't have responded. The policies have not been 'pretty close', that's a common myth repeated here constantly.

and how exactly does bashing someone because of their opinion on what god is make u any smarter? noone is 100% correct when it comes to that subject, because noone knows...

That's not 'bashing', however falsely calling someone's opinion 'silly' is, as he did. I never claimed his ridiculous views on god make me smarter. I don't know how you managed to derive that meaning from what I said. In actuality what I stated is that when you state extremely silly things, you shouldn't call someone else silly. That is of course hypocritical.

The fact that no one knows for sure whether there is a god or not does not mean every view on god is legitimate. Do I know that god isn't a unicorn named Michael? No, I can't say for sure. However, if someone tells me that they believe god is a unicorn named Michael, I'm going to go ahead and think they're insane. Anyone who states an opinion on the matter of god which is not supported by evidence is wrong to do so.

[TheDankery]

The policies have not been 'pretty close', that's a common myth repeated here constantly.

Really? Because pretty much everything I didn't like about the Bush administration, Obama is continuing most of those policies. Can you come up with some significant policy differences between the two administrations? In the grand scheme of things, Bush and Obama seem remarkably similar thus far.

They are very close together policy-wise; Obama is the lower-calorie, less filling version of Bush. He is Bush Lite in my estimation.

[Xenomorph]

Obama did not deserve the Nobel Peace Prize its ridiculous. What has the man done worthy of such an esteemed honor? Spent money? I find that people are riding on this preconceived notion that Obama has the power and the might to change the face of America for the better. That all this national debt can be overturned by spending more. All Obama has done is been a face for "change" while he goes behind our backs by approving of horrible things like the patriot act, staying in Iraq, and spewing all this crap about hope and change just to feed the idiotic American masses that eat it all up without question.

[Felt]

Originally Posted by Rebeltoker86

Interesting interview. However, I think in America we fail to acknowledge the influence Obama has had on the way the rest of the world views us. Public opinion in the world for America has skyrocketed with Obama's occupation of the White House.

I would admit that he hasnt done a whole lot to bring about world peace, but maybe thats not what this award is about. Obama is the current embodiment of Hope and Change for the world. I think his nomination for the Nobel reinforces this idea.

Also, Obama's acceptance of the award as a call to action was politically brilliant. He didnt boast about, he didnt turn it down, but rather used it as motivation.

I think a lot of people fail to see that winning the Nobel Prize is pure politics.

Obama won it because he ideologically closer to the swedish who pick the winner.

I see where you're coming from about using it as a motivation and how he's the 'symbol of hope and change' for the world but the man has not accompished anything in my eyes except pleasing the hand feeding him.

Corporate America.

Originally Posted by edward

Has this has any positive effect? Unemployment continues to climb and market indicators are still headed in the wrong direction. Even if it did have a positive effect, the stimulus money is stolen from taxpayers in a completely coercive and unconstitutional way.

yup ..all given to save shareholders in big companies.

[lovetobtokn]

Kingmonkey said in an earlier post obama and busg are the same... U replied

Originally Posted by NateRiver

Which would explain why conservatives like the interviewee are so supportive of him, right?

if u read edwards post where he said the word silly. He said, no, bush was not conservative, silly. He was correct in that assessment so u started diggin on him about some other shit, however subtle you may have been in the process.

Now to my post, i said actually, most people voted for him merely because he was by name a republican and people think that means something. If u think most voters know what obama stands for and pay attention to his actual policy ( just like with any other president) i think ur wrong. Sure they listen to the bs media but they dont actually know wtf they are voting for... Its a name and a power struggle for either side to be on power. But they arent really that different


I dont remember his view on god having anything to do with unicorns? U definately came off as if his interpretation was stupid and therefore his credibility was shot... What am i missing here? That had nothing tp do with the discussion at hand. God is open to interpretation

[lovetobtokn]

But u can measure where on the political spectrum a president is based on policy. Im not trying to fight with u i just dont see the point in bring up something that has nothin to do with this discussion. If he was wrong ab his statement respond and correct him, dont bring up his views on a completely different subject...

And nate how could u say something as stupid as, if u dont know charles krauthammer, i shouldnt even be posting. Hes one of thpusands od jpurnalists, big deal. I dont see how this has anything to do with my opinion or what i do know. Whats with the stabs and you coming off as if know more and have more of a right to be in this discussion. It seems to me if anyone disagrees with you you look for a way other than using actual information, to discredit them.

Btw sorry for a second post im on my iphone and its really a pain posting on this.

[lovetobtokn]

Originally Posted by TheDankery

I don't want to jump all over that little statement there but I think Israel can stand up for itself without the 7 million dollars + a day we give them in aid to occupy and murder the Palestinan people. Funding Israel's continual occupation of Palestinian land and killing of Palestinian people is not something to be proud of.

Im not gonna lie i may be a little confused on which country started firing missles or what have you and occupying who and killing innocent people. My point however thoigh is still taken, we do defend those who cant defend themselves a lot of the time. Money has nothing to do with who we "support". We have to send money to almost everyone. We try to appease both sides in every instance, just because the bad guys get aid too doesnt mean we agree with what they are doing. Its not as easy as, we dont like how ur treating them, were not sending u money anymore. Its all political and i dont know ad much as some of u do but i know its not as easy as black and white, this way or that way.