debating liberals vs me on immigration

[loopster]

ya this debate has gone from illegal immigration->people in jail->to drugs-> to race; which is not why i started this thread in the first place. Some people don't understand how to read Ie the ones calling people racists and from my conclusion i think that they should become US citizens if they pay the fines taxes everything they have owed they follow the same rules i have no problem

[ibjamming]

You won't get any argument from me...and I'll add the problems a certain group living in our inner cities cause too. Unfortunately, they're citizens...so we keep dragging them along. Completely foreign to "us", but citizens none the less.

[loopster]

i am not talking about citizens they are here legally if they are a US citizen which i have no problem with at all

i must have just chosen a bad argument

[EbencoyE]

Yes, Mao led a revolution. People die in revolutions. There were also major famines. Why are these things the fault of Mao?

Sorry, off-topic. But I always think it's silly when people bring up how many people died under a certain leader to make them look bad. Not saying he wasn't, there's plenty of things to critique Mao on, but not war and famine. These things have always occurred throughout human history and it takes more than one person to start a war and nobody is capable of controlling how successful harvests are - only the earth.

[alejnadro]

so your saying that every illegal immigrant in USA is a rapist and a crook? what rock do you live under? did you not know that citizens of usa are rapists also? but know, focus on the latino population, since they are evil doers, right? most of the people in prison for rape are Caucasian citizens of the united states of america. dont believe me? too fucking bad. Oh and look at this, the guys who supposidly defend your nations are rapists, hooligans, and criminals also, this guy is also white! what a shocker! and of course, he is a citizen of USA.
Ex-soldier found guilty of Iraq rape, murders | France 24

you seem to forget that the caucasians in usa rape the most people out of any race. but i guess you like to ignore the facts and blame other people, fucking hypocrite

[loopster]

Originally Posted by alejnadro

so your saying that every illegal immigrant in USA is a rapist and a crook? what rock do you live under? did you not know that citizens of usa are rapists also? but know, focus on the latino population, since they are evil doers, right? most of the people in prison for rape are Caucasian citizens of the united states of america. dont believe me? too fucking bad. Oh and look at this, the guys who supposidly defend your nations are rapists, hooligans, and criminals also, this guy is also white! what a shocker! and of course, he is a citizen of USA.
Ex-soldier found guilty of Iraq rape, murders | France 24

you seem to forget that the caucasians in usa rape the most people out of any race. but i guess you like to ignore the facts and blame other people, fucking hypocrite

wo wo wo before you go off on your little tangent
did i say every illegal immigrant? No
Did i even mention the latino population? No
I do know that Citizens of the USA are felons and i do not agree that we should pay for there housing and food either and i did not say that they weren't
Why are YOU pointing out that whites do everything?

So before you happen to open your mouth again and let the stupidity flow i suggest you stop and think and instead of pointing the finger at someone else and bring up a totally different argument prove me wrong with what the topic was about in the first place

[alejnadro]

Originally Posted by loopster

wo wo wo before you go off on your little tangent
did i say every illegal immigrant? No
Did i even mention the latino population? No
I do know that Citizens of the USA are felons and i do not agree that we should pay for there housing and food either and i did not say that they weren't
Why are YOU pointing out that whites do everything?

So before you happen to open your mouth again and let the stupidity flow i suggest you stop and think and instead of pointing the finger at someone else and bring up a totally different argument prove me wrong with what the topic was about in the first place

the topic you posted was to demonize immigrants, while you completly ignore the fact that legal citizens of the USA make more crime than immigrants combined, and you also dont want anyone to call you out on it? my god the irony is gonna kill me

[UnbyJP]

Originally Posted by loopster

lets keep this clean and mature IE no name calling and in no means am i a racist so if that is your counter the just leave your ignorance gives me no humor

Why the hell do i want to be living in a socialist economy
and the fact that people in Obama's administration SUPPORT Chairman Mao a man who killed over 20 million people Christ help us all
this argument is based towards illegals


We will pay for their health care
Illegal Immigrants and HR 3200: Estimate of Potential Costs to Taxpayers | Center for Immigration Studies

We pay to house,feed and support these felons in our jails.

We pay to send their kids to school

They rape our women and children

They kill many by theft and violence

just a little sight don't know the respectability of this site
Immigration Counters.com - Live Counters, News, Resources, Facts

We should close our borders to Mexico, i would consider it the terrorist highway
You think Al qaeda is bad? For all we know they haven't infultrated our borders
but the hezbollah a group who make al qaeda look like little school girls already ARE

ridiculous give me some counter arguements please!

Two thirds of all immigrants are illegal. Most go on to become legal and be productive members of society. Most of the violent crime problem with illegals (and legal citizens as well) is associated with a failed War on Drugs. So before you try to tell someone to not point fingers, why don't you take your own advice. Either don't point any fingers, or point fingers at everyone, the illegal immigrants growers and distributors, the legal permanent resident and citizen who use, and the biggest culprits of them all, the politicians in DC.

Other random points that are related:

Just as many, if not more tax dollars are wasted on citizens who squandered their public school "educations" and/or end up in jail, welfare, etc.

Illegal immigrants don't hold a monopoly on violent crime, and are often the victims of violent crimes themselves, both from other illegals and the legal citizens.

Seriously, you're totally disregarding the real problem, a corrupt and broken system, that doesn't work the way most people would want it to, whether you want to believe it because of incompetence on the part of political officials, or intentionally created to meet sinister goals by the ruling elite. So why do you think this problem exist, the former or the latter? Cuz that'll explain who you ultimately end up blaming aka pointing fingers at.

[TheDankery]

first of all, not everyone who doesn't want the Great Wall of America installed along the border is a "liberal".

We should close our borders to Mexico, i would consider it the terrorist highway

I want to know what exactly this "close the borders" talking point which is echoed so often actually means. Does that mean literally, you're not going to allow goods or people back and forth? What the hell? What does "close the borders" mean, if it isn't refusing people or goods from traveling in and out of the US and Mexico? How does one even accomplish this? How many billions of dollars would "closing the border" cost us?



Do you realize how much damage that would have on both of our economies?

[loopster]

Originally Posted by alejnadro

the topic you posted was to demonize immigrants, while you completly ignore the fact that legal citizens of the USA make more crime than immigrants combined, and you also dont want anyone to call you out on it? my god the irony is gonna kill me

By your standards since i am trying to demonize immigrants we should let everyone else who breaks the law to just roam free and watch the anarchy form.

Originally Posted by UnbyJP

Two thirds of all immigrants are illegal. Most go on to become legal and be productive members of society. Most of the violent crime problem with illegals (and legal citizens as well) is associated with a failed War on Drugs. So before you try to tell someone to not point fingers, why don't you take your own advice. Either don't point any fingers, or point fingers at everyone, the illegal immigrants growers and distributors, the legal permanent resident and citizen who use, and the biggest culprits of them all, the politicians in DC.

Other random points that are related:

Just as many, if not more tax dollars are wasted on citizens who squandered their public school "educations" and/or end up in jail, welfare, etc.

Illegal immigrants don't hold a monopoly on violent crime, and are often the victims of violent crimes themselves, both from other illegals and the legal citizens.

Seriously, you're totally disregarding the real problem, a corrupt and broken system, that doesn't work the way most people would want it to, whether you want to believe it because of incompetence on the part of political officials, or intentionally created to meet sinister goals by the ruling elite. So why do you think this problem exist, the former or the latter? Cuz that'll explain who you ultimately end up blaming aka pointing fingers at.

For the first half of what you said i agree politicians are horrid and the corrupt and broken system

for the rest of it, illegal immigrants use more welfare and free education than any legal citizen.

Originally Posted by TheDankery

first of all, not everyone who doesn't want the Great Wall of America installed along the border is a "liberal".



I want to know what exactly this "close the borders" talking point which is echoed so often actually means. Does that mean literally, you're not going to allow goods or people back and forth? What the hell? What does "close the borders" mean, if it isn't refusing people or goods from traveling in and out of the US and Mexico? How does one even accomplish this? How many billions of dollars would "closing the border" cost us?



Do you realize how much damage that would have on both of our economies?

Tightened as in KNOW whos coming in and whos leaving with what, is what i mean by closing the borders

and creating a border would cost roughly 40 billion dollars ironically what was used for a stimulus bill

[TheDankery]

You wrote "close the borders", not "tighten the borders".

So how do we "know who's coming and leaving with what"? Don't they already check passposts going in and out of Mexico and sometimes search your car? What are you proposing here?

So how is this 40 billion dollar wall going to keep people out? If you build a 10 foot wall, the people who want into this country will get a 10 foot ladder. If you bury it the wall one foot into the ground, they will dig one foot underground to get past it. This 40 billion dollar wall is costly and will not be effective.

[UnbyJP]

Originally Posted by loopster

By your standards since i am trying to demonize immigrants we should let everyone else who breaks the law to just roam free and watch the anarchy form.



For the first half of what you said i agree politicians are horrid and the corrupt and broken system

for the rest of it, illegal immigrants use more welfare and free education than any legal citizen.



Tightened as in KNOW whos coming in and whos leaving with what, is what i mean by closing the borders

and creating a border would cost roughly 40 billion dollars ironically what was used for a stimulus bill

I'm not going to argue with you about welfare and public school education. For the most part, I'm against most of welfare and the nanny state, and much of what passes as "education" in this country, most notably the example set by the public school system. Honestly, I think you're just concentrating on the symptoms of much more significant problems in this country, and just like every other "horrid" politician, your solution is a simple band aid to alleviate the symptoms, rather than solve the causes of the problems.

Think about how hypocritical it is for a country that forcefully polices the whole world, and aggressively intervenes in the affairs of other nations, with both economic and military might, to have "tightened borders". I'd argue that the US's foreign policy has helped to create the destitute conditions in other nations that motivates their citizens to immigrate to this country. Not surprising from the United States of Hypocrisy tho.

[sikander]

The way I see it, it's pretty much impossible to stop illegal immigration, unless you build a giant concrete wall across the whole length of the Canadian and Mexican borders and search every last thing coming in via air and sea.

And it just seems like there's gotta be a better way to mitigate the impacts of illegal immigration than doing that, and people really desperate to get in will find a way to tunnel underneath the walls.

The biggest problem I've heard from people who have tried to apply for visas is the cost.

I know middle-class Europeans who have done it. They weren't happy about the cost but they could afford it. A family from the Indian lower-middle-class wouldn't be able to afford it, however, even if they were otherwise perfectly-qualified for a visa. It's just too expensive for a lot of people in the third world, and I don't believe all that cost is necessary.

I don't believe just anybody should be allowed to come here. But I would be amazed if a good number of the people here illegally were people who didn't try to come here legally first and were turned down because they couldn't afford the bureaucracy for it. There oughtta be some kind of provision for them.

How about we try and trim a little fat from the Defense budget or something and use the funds to help poor people come here, eh?

[UnbyJP]

Originally Posted by sikander

I don't believe just anybody should be allowed to come here. But I would be amazed if a good number of the people here illegally were people who didn't try to come here legally first and were turned down because they couldn't afford the bureaucracy for it. There oughtta be some kind of provision for them.

Yeah, like I said, two thirds of all immigrants are illegal. Most come in perfectly legal and safe ways, but simply stay beyond the terms of their visa. Most go on to become legal citizens and productive members of society. The process for coming in legally is ridiculous, and is a perfect example of a system that doesn't work the way it claims it's supposed to. This notion that the majority of illegal immigrants come in rickety boats, or risk life and death crossing borders in horrid conditions is pure myth. Not to say that none of them do, but you'd swear the way our government and the citizens talk about it, most illegal immigrants do, when that's just simply false.

[ibjamming]

Originally Posted by alejnadro

the topic you posted was to demonize immigrants, while you completly ignore the fact that legal citizens of the USA make more crime than immigrants combined, and you also dont want anyone to call you out on it? my god the irony is gonna kill me

How many more "citizens" are there than illegals? Of course citizens commit more crimes, there are more of them...orders of magnitude more. Besides, technically, EVERY illegal is a criminal. And the other point is...were the illegal not here, that crime wouldn't have been committed.

Originally Posted by TheDankery

first of all, not everyone who doesn't want the Great Wall of America installed along the border is a "liberal".



I want to know what exactly this "close the borders" talking point which is echoed so often actually means. Does that mean literally, you're not going to allow goods or people back and forth? What the hell? What does "close the borders" mean, if it isn't refusing people or goods from traveling in and out of the US and Mexico? How does one even accomplish this? How many billions of dollars would "closing the border" cost us?



Do you realize how much damage that would have on both of our economies?

Close the border means just that...closed, no access besides official entry points.

Originally Posted by TheDankery

You wrote "close the borders", not "tighten the borders".

So how do we "know who's coming and leaving with what"? Don't they already check passposts going in and out of Mexico and sometimes search your car? What are you proposing here?

So how is this 40 billion dollar wall going to keep people out? If you build a 10 foot wall, the people who want into this country will get a 10 foot ladder. If you bury it the wall one foot into the ground, they will dig one foot underground to get past it. This 40 billion dollar wall is costly and will not be effective.

So I guess we need to get more serious with these people who will do ANYTHING to sneak in. Maybe WE need to get more serious about keeping them out...maybe we need to do ANYTHING to keep them out? How about a reverse Berlin wall? We shoot to keep you out instead of to keep you in?

If these people actually wanted to be Americans, I wouldn't have the problem I do with them. But they don't, they want to be Mexicans living in America. This is the problem I have with blacks too...they Don't want to be Americans, they want to be blacks living in America.

Originally Posted by UnbyJP

I'm not going to argue with you about welfare and public school education. For the most part, I'm against most of welfare and the nanny state, and much of what passes as "education" in this country, most notably the example set by the public school system. Honestly, I think you're just concentrating on the symptoms of much more significant problems in this country, and just like every other "horrid" politician, your solution is a simple band aid to alleviate the symptoms, rather than solve the causes of the problems.

Think about how hypocritical it is for a country that forcefully polices the whole world, and aggressively intervenes in the affairs of other nations, with both economic and military might, to have "tightened borders". I'd argue that the US's foreign policy has helped to create the destitute conditions in other nations that motivates their citizens to immigrate to this country. Not surprising from the United States of Hypocrisy tho.

Of course we only "solve" the symptoms. What can you do to raise a group up...who don't have the means (intellect) to be equal? All you succeed in is lowing everyone else to their level...and that causes frustration. When will we admit it?

If the world was all "white european", it would be a much better place. I approve of what the US has done.