debating liberals vs me on immigration

[alejnadro]

Originally Posted by pineapple skunk

riiiiight

case closed, your rant is over?

[ThisIsDaveK]

I don't beleive in borders, so i'm COMPLETELY for anything that protects illegal immigrants

On a side note, the great amounbt of natural born americans who can't pass citizenship tests, but are never even tested just because they were born here, suggests to me that there is something INSANELY wrong with this system, imagine how outraged you would be if you had to take a citizenship test when you turned 18, do you think that you wouyld even be in america right now? It's an unfair double standard

[UnbyJP]

Originally Posted by ThisIsDaveK

I don't beleive in borders, so i'm COMPLETELY for anything that protects illegal immigrants

On a side note, the great amounbt of natural born americans who can't pass citizenship tests, but are never even tested just because they were born here, suggests to me that there is something INSANELY wrong with this system, imagine how outraged you would be if you had to take a citizenship test when you turned 18, do you think that you wouyld even be in america right now? It's an unfair double standard

I agree with this completely and would add that often those most ignorant of their own country's history and their own government's policies are those most adamant against illegal immigration.

[loopster]

Originally Posted by ThisIsDaveK

I don't beleive in borders, so i'm COMPLETELY for anything that protects illegal immigrants

On a side note, the great amounbt of natural born americans who can't pass citizenship tests, but are never even tested just because they were born here, suggests to me that there is something INSANELY wrong with this system, imagine how outraged you would be if you had to take a citizenship test when you turned 18, do you think that you wouyld even be in america right now? It's an unfair double standard

and what citizen tests would you be talking about ? the process of getting a green card? If so your argument is holds no structure

I would like to know more on these tests though

Amendment 14
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

[aaronman]

Originally Posted by ThisIsDaveK

I don't beleive in borders, so i'm COMPLETELY for anything that protects illegal immigrants

Shouldn't we have borders if we provide entitlements and privileges... you know, to avoid bankruptcy?

[ThisIsDaveK]

Originally Posted by aaronman

Shouldn't we have borders if we provide entitlements and privileges... you know, to avoid bankruptcy?

I dont beleive we should have money either

[ThisIsDaveK]

Originally Posted by loopster

and what citizen tests would you be talking about ? the process of getting a green card? If so your argument is holds no structure

I would like to know more on these tests though

Amendment 14
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

I mean the tests that you have to pass to become a citizen of the united states of america, and as far as amendment 14 goes, i think its unfair, this country was founded on UNALIENABLE rights and our constitution should set out to enforce rights that we beleive that all human beings are entitled, not justs ones who were born in america or can pass a test. EVERYONE has the right to free expression, EVERYONE has the right to bear arms for self defense, EVERYONE has the right to a fair trial, etc, etc, etc, NOT just american citizens

EDIT: as far as the tests go, seeing as how your quoting the constitution i really dont think that you should be worried

[kstigs]

Originally Posted by ThisIsDaveK

I dont beleive we should have money either

What kind of system would you propose in place of money? A barter system? Personally, I think money is a necessary evil of modern society, but I'm curious if you've actually given any thought to a society without money and how it would function.

[ThisIsDaveK]

Originally Posted by kstigs

What kind of system would you propose in place of money? A barter system? Personally, I think money is a necessary evil of modern society, but I'm curious if you've actually given any thought to a society without money and how it would function.

actually, that's exactly what i would propose, a barter system, although i think you may have been being sarcastic.

In my opinion, a society without money would be like "Oh, you grew some tomatoes, i need some for my salad, i have some oranges, would you like to trade?" you know, simple shit, but then it would be like "Oh, so you want a college education huh, well the garden outside the north observatory needs tending to, if you're willing to tend to it 3 hours a week you can go here" and then like "Oh so you want to live in a house in our city huh, well theres some graffiti on the west wall of PS 117, if you clean that off and keep an eye on it for us you can live in this house" and then like "Okay shop rite, so you need someone to work as a cashier huh, well i could do it, but if i were working here i couldnt provide for my family so im going to need to be able to take home some groceries every once in a while if you want me working here"

the way i see it, with a non money based bartering system, big businesses would die off because they would be stretched too far out to provide for their employees, allowing small businesses to take control, without any fear of monopoly due to the sizes of businesses being kept small

[pineapple skunk]

HI I NEED A CAR

CAN I TRADE TOMATOES FOR YOUR CAR? ...


i dont think a barter system would work at all, actually

[kstigs]

Originally Posted by ThisIsDaveK

actually, that's exactly what i would propose, a barter system, although i think you may have been being sarcastic.

In my opinion, a society without money would be like "Oh, you grew some tomatoes, i need some for my salad, i have some oranges, would you like to trade?" you know, simple shit, but then it would be like "Oh, so you want a college education huh, well the garden outside the north observatory needs tending to, if you're willing to tend to it 3 hours a week you can go here" and then like "Oh so you want to live in a house in our city huh, well theres some graffiti on the west wall of PS 117, if you clean that off and keep an eye on it for us you can live in this house" and then like "Okay shop rite, so you need someone to work as a cashier huh, well i could do it, but if i were working here i couldnt provide for my family so im going to need to be able to take home some groceries every once in a while if you want me working here"

the way i see it, with a non money based bartering system, big businesses would die off because they would be stretched too far out to provide for their employees, allowing small businesses to take control, without any fear of monopoly due to the sizes of businesses being kept small

I wasn't being sarcastic. I meant everything I said literally.

As for a barter system, it wouldn't really fix the problems of our money situation. Instead of the power being in the hands of the people with the money, it would be in the power of the people with the goods. The wealthy would still control the marketplace and the poor would continue to be at the whims of the rich.

I could even see a barter system being more corrupt than this system considering each transaction would basically have to be negotiated at the time of purchase.

[alejnadro]

Originally Posted by aaronman

Shouldn't we have borders if we provide entitlements and privileges... you know, to avoid bankruptcy?

what?

[aaronman]

Originally Posted by alejnadro

what?

You know all that free stuff the majority has been voting for all these years, like housing, education and health care?

Well none of that is actually free, someone has to pay for it.

If we opened our borders to people that haven't been contributing to all this "free" stuff, then we will go bankrupt... just like the hospitals in SoCal and Texas are.

ThisIsDavek I dont beleive we should have money either

Aside from this being a ludicrous notion, that doesn't even solve the issue of entitlements and illegal immigration.

Or are you suggesting we should enter total communism, and abandon liberty all together?

[alejnadro]

Originally Posted by aaronman

You know all that free stuff the majority has been voting for all these years, like housing, education and health care?

Well none of that is actually free, someone has to pay for it.

If we opened our borders to people that haven't been contributing to all this "free" stuff, then we will go bankrupt... just like the hospitals in SoCal and Texas are.



Aside from this being a ludicrous notion, that doesn't even solve the issue of entitlements and illegal immigration.

Or are you suggesting we should enter total communism, and abandon liberty all together?

yeah, while the war in iraq and Afghanistan is only making usa richer right?

[aaronman]

Originally Posted by alejnadro

yeah, while the war in iraq and Afghanistan is only making usa richer right?

Ehh, no. You're wrong.

I guess because I support legal immigration that makes me a neocon war monger...

Who's the troll now?