debating liberals vs me on immigration

[alejnadro]

Originally Posted by loopster

ok as i am going to state again i did not point out latins mexicans whatever you dub them as
i am speaking of all even the ones coming from Canada

yet you imply it in every single one of your posts , you hypocritical troll
just for you

[TheDankery]

I showed that incident not to say that that was wrong. It was to show how much our country does for them, and their complete lack of appreciation for it.
...it is the same as spoiling a kid with everything he asks for, and him just telling me to fuck off. That is where I feel disrespected. That is how I personally feel about the situation.

So you're saying what they did is not wrong, but it shows a lack of appreciation for "how much our country does for them"? How is that? They are protesting policies they disagree with. I see no real difference between what those kids did over here and what that soldier is doing with his flag. They're expressing their dislike of certain policies. It surely is not a way to tell you to "fuck off", and I doubt they mean it personally. You, after all, are not a policymaker as far as I know.

It's their right to protest and I fully support them. I wish more young people would be active politically.

[StoneColdChilla]

Originally Posted by TheDankery

So what about the goods we trade back and forth? Are we to not trade any longer with Mexico? You advocate a highly tyrannical and bellicose anti-free trade stance here.

What are we to do with the millions of illegals here already, might I ask?

The Cato Institute came out with a study recently which suggested "increased enforcement and reduced low-skilled immigration have a significant negative impact on the income of U.S. households." They also found that "The positive impact for U.S. households of legalization under an optimal visa tax would be 1.27 percent of GDP or $180 billion."



Good idea for the land of the free, there. History has shown that's a positive thing. Yep.

Jeeeeezus.....



You don't control what "American" is, my defrosted Neanderthal friend. Your ideas themselves are not "American". You realize that that the exact same things were said about Asian people, the Irish, Italians, Jewish individuals, Catholics, Germans, etc., right? Come on dude. You're not even trying. You don't even form complete ideas. You just sort of... ooze out racism.

But what can I do to raise a person up...who doesn't have the intellect to be equal?



Is that you man?

Why give him the stereotypical racist white man classification pal? Is he wrong here? There mostly criminals.

If you were from a country full of drugs and went to a country with a huge demand for drugs and you had no way to make a living, what would you do?

Call me racist if you want but im just going to be realistic here, so save your condescending bullshit and cute little pictures for someone else.


And since you went and posted a picture of the dumb racist, ill quote another racist from that movie Derek, if you would even call this statement racist. I call it realistic


White Europeans came here and flourished, most blacks and Mexicans here come and do nothing but exploit our society and put a fundamental drag on society as a whole. People buying foreign cars and people sitting on there asses on welfare is whats destroying this country, not the people your painting to be ignorant racists buddy.


I go into retail jobs and see no white people able to find employment,I go onto the street and see nothing but the minorities being arrested and wasting our resources to put them up in cushy jails and prisons when they shouldn't be here in the first place.

If they want to come and be productive members of society thats fine, I have nothing against it.

But when I have to foot the bill from them destroying my country - its a problem.


Flame on, bad rep me I don't give a shit im just telling the truth.

[TheDankery]

Yes, he's completely racist and wrong here. I think it's rather disgusting you support him.

So minorities are "mostly criminals"? Come on dude. You know that's a lie. You're a criminal if you smoke marijuana in this country. This forum is made up almost entirely of criminals man.

Stop trolling. You're not even debating immigration anymore. You're just ranting about how much you dig white people or whatever.

Did your dad ever rant about "affirmative blacktion" at the dinner table?

you totally missed the point of the fucking movie if you call Derek's statement there "realistic".

"cushy jails"? lolz.

I go into retail jobs and see no white people able to find employment,I go onto the street and see nothing but the minorities being arrested and wasting our resources to put them up in cushy jails and prisons when they shouldn't be here in the first place

LOLZ. you would think that if "the minorities" were being arrested and put in jail all the time, it would free up some jobs in the retail sector.

[Fresh Prince]

Originally Posted by TheDankery

So you're saying what they did is not wrong, but it shows a lack of appreciation for "how much our country does for them"? How is that? They are protesting policies they disagree with. I see no real difference between what those kids did over here and what that soldier is doing with his flag. They're expressing their dislike of certain policies. It surely is not a way to tell you to "fuck off", and I doubt they mean it personally. You, after all, are not a policymaker as far as I know.

It's their right to protest and I fully support them. I wish more young people would be active politically.

Please read my whole post this time instead of just picking out things.

I FUCKING AGREED WITH YOU THAT IT WASN'T A VALID ARGUEMNET. I AGREED WITH YOU AND SAID THEY HAD A RIGHT TO DO IT. I FUCKING DISREGARDED IT SAYING THAT IT WAS MY OPINION, AND THAT ME BEING OFFENDED BY IT HOLDS NO WATER AT ALL.

But apparently you have to argue a point that I have already conceded to.
If it makes you happy I will take out everything about the protest in my original post.

It doesn't change the fact that billions of taxpayers dollars are being used on illegal immigrants.
Do you have anything to say about the point of my original post?
The point being that there is most definitely a problem with illegal immigration, and in order to solve said problem we need to take away all of the benefits that we give them.

[TheDankery]

calm down. you don't have to yell in CAPS at me.

I "picked out things" to break your post down into different points to make it easier for myself. Anyone can click on the other page and read your remarks in full.

It wouldn't make me happy man. Only I can make myself happy. I don't care if you remove it or not.

I follow you that billions of dollars are spent on illegal immigrants. I never disagreed with that point. I'm saying we legalize the ones who are already here for now. What do you suggest we do with them?

[Fresh Prince]

Sorry for yelling, it just seemed that you were only picking out the parts in my posts that you could spin, and not looking at the other parts of what I said. I took some offense to that, hence the caps. My bad...

But to get back on topic...
If we take the benifits away, I think that will dissuade them from staying, as well as influence others not to come. Of course this is wishfull thinking.
I don't agree with it, but honestly, we have let it get to the point where granting citizenship might be the only option. That alone won't solve the problem though. The solution might be doing both.

Perhaps making green cards more accessable to lower classes?

[TheDankery]

it's all good man. I was a bit fired up too from dealing with the racists in this topic.

I would offer the illegals who are already here amnesty, basically, if they pay certain fines and what not. Studies have shown that legalizing the current illegal immigrant population would have a positive economic benefit, and if we were to reduce the amount of low-skilled incoming immigrants over the next decade, it would actually harm us.

Really, I think the some of the bad conditions in parts of Mexico can be linked to the war on drugs easily. If drugs were legalized (by the US, Mexico, or both), it would make Mexico safer and there would be less daily violence, and thus less of a need to get out of Mexico and into America - where most of us don't live with cartels shooting it out with the army in the streets.

I live in San Diego -the border is like 10 miles from my house. I know people who don't have their green cards after living here for decades. It's difficult living in the shadows sometimes and I just wish our current politicans would do something about reforming immigration laws, so that hard-working immigrants can live in this country freely and the freeloaders aren't freeloadin' anymore.

[Chronny215]

Originally Posted by TheDankery

Yes, he's completely wrong here and it's rather disgusting you support him.

So minorities are "mostly criminals"? Come on dude. You know that's a lie. Stop trolling.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau (just clearing where my statistics are coming from): 79.8% of Americans are white, 12.8% are black, and 15.4% are of Hispanic/Latino origin. According to a New York Times 2009 Almanac, there are:
547,000 black males, and 29,900 black females in prison. So approximately 576,900 blacks in prison. There are 505,500 Whites (male and female) in prison, and there are 294,900 Hispanics (male and female) in prison.

As of October 2009, there are 308,000,000 people living in the U.S.A. Meaning that if 12.8% of the population is black, there are approximately 39,424,000 blacks in America, and if 576,900 of them are in prison, then 1.5% of all blacks living in america are in prison. Out of the 47.4 million hispanics, .62% are in prison, and out of 245.8 million whites, .002% are in prison.

While minorities are not mostly criminals, most criminals ARE minorities, and if 2 blacks in every 200 is a criminal, and since 53% of inmates are charged with violent crimes, 1 person in every 200 blacks is a violent criminal. The dude's not trolling, the difference in numbers is undeniable. 1.5% vs. .002%. But since we're dealing with minorities, not just blacks, approximately 1.0% of all minorities are in prison, and 53% are charged with violent crimes. Vs. .002% of all whites in prison.

There's really no denying it, you can call it whatever you like, but the statistics are there, like ^right there.

[Fresh Prince]

Originally Posted by TheDankery

I live in San Diego -the border is like 10 miles from my house. I know people who don't have their green cards after living here for decades. It's difficult living in the shadows sometimes and I just wish our current politicans would do something about reforming immigration laws, so that hard-working immigrants can live in this country freely and the freeloaders aren't freeloadin' anymore.

Took the words right out of my mouth...
I have illegal immigrant friends, they are hard working, and if given the chance would be productive members of society. They just seem to be grouped in with all of the freeloaders when this topic comes up. If people would recognize this difference, then reforming these laws might become a lot easier.

A big problem is that when people bring up immigration, it turns into the shithole that this thread has become.

+rep for letting calmer heads prevail, and having a rational discussion with me

[TheDankery]

The dude's not trolling, the difference in numbers is undeniable.

He is trolling, or at the very least being off-topic. did you see anything which contributed to a mature debate regarding immigration from him? No, his post was unrelated to the point at hand; and it consisted entirely of him ranting about how much non-whites are "destroying this country".


I feel like profiling is another topic entirely, but I'll just say it is a problem which can lead to those numbers being higher than they should be. Look at the disparity in sentencing for "rock" cocaine and powdered cocaine, as an example of this system.

"Most drug offenders are white. Five times as many whites use drugs as blacks. Yet blacks comprise the great majority of drug offenders sent to prison. The solution to this racial inequity is not to incarcerate more whites, but to reduce the use of prison for low-level drug offenders and to increase the availability of substance abuse treatment."

So I will stand by my assertion that minorities are not "mostly criminals".

[NateRiver]

Originally Posted by Chronny215

and out of 24.6 BILLION whites, .002% are in prison

What?

[Chronny215]

Originally Posted by TheDankery

He is trolling, or at the very least being off-topic. did you see anything which contributed to a mature debate regarding immigration from him? No, his post was unrelated to the point at hand; and it consisted entirely of him ranting about how much non-whites are "destroying this country".


I feel like profiling is another topic entirely, but I'll just say it is a problem which can lead to those numbers being higher than they should be. Look at the disparity in sentencing for "rock" cocaine and powdered cocaine, as an example of this system.



So I will stand by my assertion that minorities are not "mostly criminals".

Haha jesus man, when you put it that way... I have to agree with you that it was an unecessary post, on the topic of crack, I'd like to think it's based on it's relation to gangs/gang violence.

Originally Posted by NateRiver

What?

Good catch, it should be 245.8 million, I'm not the best with numbers. It's still .002% though.

[UnbyJP]

Originally Posted by Chronny215

According to the U.S. Census Bureau (just clearing where my statistics are coming from): 79.8% of Americans are white, 12.8% are black, and 15.4% are of Hispanic/Latino origin. According to a New York Times 2009 Almanac, there are:
547,000 black males, and 29,900 black females in prison. So approximately 576,900 blacks in prison. There are 505,500 Whites (male and female) in prison, and there are 294,900 Hispanics (male and female) in prison.

As of October 2009, there are 308,000,000 people living in the U.S.A. Meaning that if 12.8% of the population is black, there are approximately 39,424,000 blacks in America, and if 576,900 of them are in prison, then 1.5% of all blacks living in america are in prison. Out of the 47.4 million hispanics, .62% are in prison, and out of 24.6 BILLION whites, .002% are in prison.

While minorities are not mostly criminals, most criminals ARE minorities, and if 2 blacks in every 200 is a criminal, and since 53% of inmates are charged with violent crimes, 1 person in every 200 blacks is a violent criminal. The dude's not trolling, the difference in numbers is undeniable. 1.5% vs. .002%. But since we're dealing with minorities, not just blacks, approximately 1.0% of all minorities are in prison, and 53% are charged with violent crimes. Vs. .002% of all whites in prison.

There's really no denying it, you can call it whatever you like, but the statistics are there, like ^right there.

You fail to realize that those Census Bureau Stats are skewed because white Hispanics/Latinos are counted twice, since Hispanic/Latino isn't considered a race, which I agree, it isn't, it's an ethnicity, but then they go ahead and count Asian as a race...

Plus his argument was about illegal immigrants. So I don't see how this discussion of the different races/ethnicities incarcerated is relevant without distinguishing the legal residents from the illegal ones. And you act like everyone in jail deserves to be there, that the legal system treats all people equally, and that our laws are all just...

Originally Posted by Fresh Prince

Please read my whole post this time instead of just picking out things.

I FUCKING AGREED WITH YOU THAT IT WASN'T A VALID ARGUEMNET. I AGREED WITH YOU AND SAID THEY HAD A RIGHT TO DO IT. I FUCKING DISREGARDED IT SAYING THAT IT WAS MY OPINION, AND THAT ME BEING OFFENDED BY IT HOLDS NO WATER AT ALL.

But apparently you have to argue a point that I have already conceded to.
If it makes you happy I will take out everything about the protest in my original post.

It doesn't change the fact that billions of taxpayers dollars are being used on illegal immigrants.
Do you have anything to say about the point of my original post?
The point being that there is most definitely a problem with illegal immigration, and in order to solve said problem we need to take away all of the benefits that we give them.

And you act like billions of taxpayer dollars aren't wasted in countless other ways, on various other people, many who don't even live in this country?!? I'm sorry, when did the illegal immigrants vote saying "Yes, we want your handouts"? In a sense, I agree, the whole welfare system is a joke, regardless of whether the recipients are illegal or not. I disagree that we should take all welfare away. I think the system needs serious reform, and in reforming it, most current welfare recipients would stop receiving or receive significantly less welfare, regardless of their citizenship status. How about using welfare to reward good behavior? I wouldn't see that as a waste of taxpayer dollars.

And I'll reiterate, much of that wasted taxpayer dollars is spent on a failed War on Drugs that hurts everyone, not just the legal immigrants, not just the citizens, not just the illegal immigrants, but even the residents of our neighboring countries.

Err, I just read the rest of your posts. Seems like you've already conceded to the points I've made. Apologies.

Originally Posted by NateRiver

What?

out of 24.6 BILLION whites, .002% are in prison.

BWHAHAHAHAHAH! Yeah, I just realized, he said there are 24.6 BILLION white people in a country of about 300 MILLION people. ROFL.

[TheDankery]

Haha jesus man, when you put it that way... I have to agree with you that it was an unecessary post, on the topic of crack, I'd like to think it's based on it's relation to gangs/gang violence.

yeah, man, I would agree with you there. I wrote a gigantic 20 page paper on the prison system's failures last year, and a lot of it was based on race/class and drug war issues.

This is a simple visual aid, but it says a lot.




anyways, more on-topic, I wish this didn't turn into a race thing so fast. I tried.