debating liberals vs me on immigration

[TheDankery]

Close the border means just that...closed, no access besides official entry points.

So what about the goods we trade back and forth? Are we to not trade any longer with Mexico? You advocate a highly tyrannical and bellicose anti-free trade stance here.

What are we to do with the millions of illegals here already, might I ask?

The Cato Institute came out with a study recently which suggested "increased enforcement and reduced low-skilled immigration have a significant negative impact on the income of U.S. households." They also found that "The positive impact for U.S. households of legalization under an optimal visa tax would be 1.27 percent of GDP or $180 billion."

So I guess we need to get more serious with these people who will do ANYTHING to sneak in. Maybe WE need to get more serious about keeping them out...maybe we need to do ANYTHING to keep them out? How about a reverse Berlin wall? We shoot to keep you out instead of to keep you in?

Good idea for the land of the free, there. History has shown that's a positive thing. Yep.

Jeeeeezus.....

If these people actually wanted to be Americans, I wouldn't have the problem I do with them. But they don't, they want to be Mexicans living in America. This is the problem I have with blacks too...they Don't want to be Americans, they want to be blacks living in America.

You don't control what "American" is, my defrosted Neanderthal friend. Your ideas themselves are not "American". You realize that that the exact same things were said about Asian people, the Irish, Italians, Jewish individuals, Catholics, Germans, etc., right? Come on dude. You're not even trying. You don't even form complete ideas. You just sort of... ooze out racism.

But what can I do to raise a person up...who doesn't have the intellect to be equal?

If the world was all "white european", it would be a much better place.

Is that you man?

[UnbyJP]

Originally Posted by ibjamming

Of course we only "solve" the symptoms. What can you do to raise a group up...who don't have the means (intellect) to be equal? All you succeed in is lowing everyone else to their level...and that causes frustration. When will we admit it?

If the world was all "white european", it would be a much better place. I approve of what the US has done.

Still spewing this crap, eh? I suggest you do research on the differences between... RACE... Ethnicity... Nationality. Take it from a WHITE HISPANIC born in Colombia, and living in the US that you have no idea what you are talking about, especially that part about not having the intellect to be equal...

I agree that they don't have the means, but that means is not intellect, that means is educational, societal, and professional opportunities from a young age.

Mind you, I'm a white hispanic with a hybrid personality, having characteristics and mannerisms strongly influenced by:

Colombian high society culture
Colombian drug lord culture
Colombian low society culture
Jamaican culture
Mexican culture
Dominican Republic culture
Puerto Rican culture
Argentinian culture
Ecuadorian culture
Cuban culture
Japanese culture
Indian-Guyanese culture
Phillipino culture
Italian culture
US University-educated corporate drone culture
US University-educated liberal hippy culture
Frat boy culture
1337 gaming culture
Tech geek culture
Nature appreciation culture
Soft druggie culture
Hard druggie culture
Black culture (and I don't mean Obama or current "black" culture, I'm talking real shit, from the streets 2pac shit)
Gang banger culture
Juvenile detention culture
Italian mafia culture
Trailer trash culture
Honor roll nerd culture
Punk rock culture

etc.
etc.
etc.

You can find something wrong in all of them which is why trying to attribute all evil, incompetence, and wrongdoing to one or even a few is simply ridiculous.

[loopster]

Originally Posted by UnbyJP

I'm not going to argue with you about welfare and public school education. For the most part, I'm against most of welfare and the nanny state, and much of what passes as "education" in this country, most notably the example set by the public school system. Honestly, I think you're just concentrating on the symptoms of much more significant problems in this country, and just like every other "horrid" politician, your solution is a simple band aid to alleviate the symptoms, rather than solve the causes of the problems.

Think about how hypocritical it is for a country that forcefully polices the whole world, and aggressively intervenes in the affairs of other nations, with both economic and military might, to have "tightened borders". I'd argue that the US's foreign policy has helped to create the destitute conditions in other nations that motivates their citizens to immigrate to this country. Not surprising from the United States of Hypocrisy tho.

Bravo you beat me ha ha figured it wouldn't take long

Originally Posted by TheDankery

So what about the goods we trade back and forth? Are we to not trade any longer with Mexico? You advocate a highly tyrannical and bellicose anti-free trade stance here.

What are we to do with the millions of illegals here already, might I ask?

The Cato Institute came out with a study recently which suggested "increased enforcement and reduced low-skilled immigration have a significant negative impact on the income of U.S. households." They also found that "The positive impact for U.S. households of legalization under an optimal visa tax would be 1.27 percent of GDP or $180 billion."



Good idea for the land of the free, there. History has shown that's a positive thing. Yep.

Jeeeeezus.....



You don't control what "American" is, my defrosted Neanderthal friend. Your ideas themselves are not "American". You realize that that the exact same things were said about Asian people, the Irish, Italians, Jewish individuals, Catholics, Germans, etc., right? Come on dude. You're not even trying. You don't even form complete ideas. You just sort of... ooze out racism.

But what can I do to raise a person up...who doesn't have the intellect to be equal?



Is that you man?

You can kick your own ass out the door The first few words i said i am in no means a racist and when you bring up household income who would that affect
if every illegal was deported(physically impossible) instead of paying $100 dollar for your fucking steak you will pay $104 and honestly if your paying that much in the first place i highly doubt youll notice anything

ha and if you have even been WATCHING the news America is not free anymore we are socialist and becoming more socialist every day enjoy the destruction of capitalism dick weed


this debate is finished unby got me i wanted to see how i could do thanks

[TheDankery]

chill dude I was talking to someone else for the majority of that post. not directed at you. I didn't in any way call you racist.

I thought you wanted "no name calling" but then you call me "dick weed", whatever that means. Hypocrite.


So did the "liberals" win or what? You trailed off into something about the fall of capitalism or whatever.

[pineapple skunk]

i fucking hate illegal immigrants

i fucking hate our idiot government (CA and federally) that supports them even more than i fucking hate illegal immigrants

[alejnadro]

Originally Posted by loopster

By your standards since i am trying to demonize immigrants we should let everyone else who breaks the law to just roam free and watch the anarchy form.

you seem to forget that most americants are horrible hypocrites who like to wage to other nations. but hey, i guess your going to close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and say " i cant hear you".
did you not know that hundreds of thousands of legal residents who are white caucasians (believe it or not Mr. supremacist) commit some of the most atrocious crimes? did a illegal mexican blow of that building in Oklahoma in 1995? or the waco siege, were the perpratatos illegal mexicans? quit acting like everything that happens around you is latin americas fault you fucking worthless scumbag

[pineapple skunk]

[Fresh Prince]

Closing or "Tightening" the border is impossible. But to say that illegal immigration isn't a problem is just as ignorant. Illegals get all of the benefits of normal citizens, without any of the duties and obligations that legal citizens have such as taxes.

Take, for example, an illegal immigrant who sneaks in here with his wife and five children.

He takes a job for five or six dollars an hour.

At that wage with six dependents he pays no income tax, yet at the
end of the year if he files income tax he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent,

He qualifies for food stamps.

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled they qualify for SSI.

Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for medicare.

All of this is at that taxpayers expense.

He doesn't have to worry about car insurance, life insurance, or
homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.
He cannot be fired, harassed, or sued.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20 to $30 an hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5 or $6 an hour left after paying their bills and his.

Now, If i was in their position, fuck ya I would be taking advantage of a flawed system. We are leaving it wide open for this to happen, and that is the problem with illegal immigrants. If we changed policy on these issues, making it harder for them to recieve all of these benefits, not only would we have more money in our federal budget, but there would be less influence for them to come take advantage of a flawed system.

Now, some people argue that their lives are so hard and helping them out is the right thing to do because we are more privileged than them. That is a valid argument, but if I am blatantly disrespected by said people, I feel no need to help them out. A perfect example of this is of a high school in California. The students of this school walked out of class, took down the American flag, raised the Mexican flag, and then raised the American flag upside-down and underneath the American flag all on American soil. This was done in protest of the immigration bill. This completely disgusted me and made me pretty pissed knowing that I paid for these kid's schooling. I would be disgusted if anyone from any country with any flag did this. I have attached pictures of this incident for anyone that wants to call shens.

We should not be giving the benefits of a citizen to people that have no respect for our country at all. The following is a quote that I think should be our stance on immigrants.




"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag.. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
-Theodore Roosevelt 1919

We have created this problem by making it too easy to take advantage of our policies. Once illegals are not able to take advantage of us, then there will be no immigration issue. We just have to take away the benefits that they are here for.

Thanks for listening to my point, and if anyone would like to talk about what I said here, please approach me in a mature manor. I am a mature adult that has the ability to reason, and I expect you to be the same.

[TheDankery]

That is a valid argument, but if I am blatantly disrespected by said people, I feel no need to help them out. A perfect example of this is of a high school in California. The students of this school walked out of class, took down the American flag, raised the Mexican flag, and then raised the American flag upside-down and underneath the American flag all on American soil. This was done in protest of the immigration bill. This completely disgusted me and made me pretty pissed knowing that I paid for these kid's schooling.

So how is that disrespectful to you? Are you that concerned with what occurs to pieces of fabric? How do you know that you were paying for these kids' schooling - isn't it possible that they are American citizens fed up with immigration laws?

I would be disgusted if anyone from any country with any flag did this.

This fellow would appear to be an American. He not only turned a piece of fabric upside down symbolically; he wrote on it! Oh no. He might he expressing his rights to do whatever he wants with a piece of fabric in a free country.


So what do we do with the millions of Illegals that are already here? I have my answer.

[Chronny215]

Originally Posted by EbencoyE

Yes, Mao led a revolution. People die in revolutions. There were also major famines. Why are these things the fault of Mao?

Sorry, off-topic. But I always think it's silly when people bring up how many people died under a certain leader to make them look bad. Not saying he wasn't, there's plenty of things to critique Mao on, but not war and famine. These things have always occurred throughout human history and it takes more than one person to start a war and nobody is capable of controlling how successful harvests are - only the earth.

"The campaign was initiated by Mao Zedong, the first President of the People's Republic of China. Sparrows were included on the list because they ate grain seeds, causing disruption to agriculture. It was decided that all the peasants in China should bang pots and pans and run around to make the sparrows fly away in fear. Sparrow nests were torn down, eggs were broken, and nestlings were killed.[1]
Initially, the campaign did improve the harvest. By April 1960 the National Academy of Science found that sparrows ate insects more than seeds. Mao declared "forget it" (Chinese: 算了; pinyin: suàn le), and ordered the end of the campaign against sparrows.[1] By this time, however, it was too late. With no sparrows to eat them, locust populations ballooned, swarming the country and compounding the problems already caused by the Great Leap Forward and adverse weather conditions, leading to the Great Chinese Famine in which around 30 million people died of starvation."

^ Taken from wikipedia, if there were ever a world leader you could directly blame for famine, it'd definitely be between Mao and Stalin.

Anyone who doesn't want to read the article, Mao decided that Sparrows were eating too much of the nation's crops and ordered everyone to take off work, school, any obligations and go out to kill sparrows. Since Sparrows ate insects more than seeds, insects swarmed, destroyed crops, and then came the famine.

Re-edit: Now that I've had time to read the other posts, I'm pretty fucking sick of paying for welfare, education, and health services for Illegal Immigrants, and despite what Dickie4:20's saying below, I'll call them as I see them, I don't have it in me to give a fuck about offending the people I'm feeding, housing, and "educating". While 1/3 of illegal immigrants may go on to lead legal, successful lives, I'm pretty sick of dealing with the majority.

[Dickie4:20]

No human is illegal. They are undocumented immigrants.

[NateRiver]

Originally Posted by pineapple skunk

That has to be the dumbest cartoon I've ever seen.

[Fresh Prince]

Originally Posted by TheDankery

So how is that disrespectful to you? Are you that concerned with what occurs to pieces of fabric? How do you know that you were paying for these kids' schooling - isn't it possible that they are American citizens fed up with immigration laws?




This fellow would appear to be an American. He not only turned a piece of fabric upside down symbolically; he wrote on it! Oh no. He might he expressing his rights to do whatever he wants with a piece of fabric in a free country.


So what do we do with the millions of Illegals that are already here? I have my answer.

I never said that what they did was wrong. I simply voiced how it made me feel. This soldier has every right to do that to the flag, just like those kids in Cali had every right to protest and do what they did. I showed that incident not to say that that was wrong. It was to show how much our country does for them, and their complete lack of appreciation for it.

I know that I am paying for at least part of their schooling, because it is a PUBLIC school. They could be American citizens, and I'm sure a lot of them were, and i feel the same way. It is the same as spoiling a kid with everything he asks for, and him just telling me to fuck off. That is where I feel disrespected. That is how I personally feel about the situation.

Now, being offended is not a valid argument in my book, so we can disregard what I said about this incident. Too many people in this country get what they want because they were offended, but that is for a different time and place.

That doesn't change the point of my first post...
Take away the benefits we give illegals, and there won't be a problem

[StoneColdChilla]

Illegal immigrants bring in a lot of drugs so im cool with that.


Also I know a mexican who has lived and worked here for over 10 years and almost has his house paid off; but he cannot obtain a green card.


What does it say on the statue of liberty bastard!

[loopster]

Originally Posted by alejnadro

you seem to forget that most americants are horrible hypocrites who like to wage to other nations. but hey, i guess your going to close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and say " i cant hear you".
did you not know that hundreds of thousands of legal residents who are white caucasians (believe it or not Mr. supremacist) commit some of the most atrocious crimes? did a illegal mexican blow of that building in Oklahoma in 1995? or the waco siege, were the perpratatos illegal mexicans? quit acting like everything that happens around you is latin americas fault you fucking worthless scumbag

You incompetent fool do you not read what i type. This is not directed towards latins, mexicans, or what ever the fuck your heart desires to call them
SO IN LAYMEN S TERMS CANADA is included