The new Drug War is the War on Piracy

[Perpetual Burn]

Originally Posted by Penelope420

Exactly. And keep in mind, most artists (be it musicians or visual artists) are NOT making millions of dollars. Most of us are barely scraping by, and copyright theft hurts us the most.

Theft and income loss aside, it just devalues art in general as though it's not something worth paying for. That makes me sad.

Artists are broke because the record labels keep all the profits from the sales... they pay the artists whatever measly rate they will accept before the album is ever made. Copyright infringement does not affect the artists at all... and the budren of proof is on you guys to show otherwise.

You know what makes me sad... "artists" who are in it for the money. That's not art... that's prosititution. Art is not about capitalizing on the work of others by charging them to experience your creation... it's about spreading your creation for all to experience the beauty of human nature and expression; don't drag art down into the material world.

A true artist wouldn't care that people experienced their work for free... only that they enjoyed it.

[Penelope420]

Originally Posted by Perpetual Burn

Artists are broke because the record labels keep all the profits from the sales... they pay the artists whatever measly rate they will accept before the album is ever made. Copyright infringement does not affect the artists at all... and the budren of proof is on you guys to show otherwise.

You know what makes me sad... "artists" who are in it for the money. That's not art... that's prosititution. Art is not about capitalizing on the work of others by charging them to experience your creation... it's about spreading your creation for all to experience the beauty of human nature and expression; don't drag art down into the physical world.

Very few musicians are actually represented by record labels. Stop talking about the very, very small percentage of artists who are making millions of dollars, and start focusing on small, independent artists (which the vast majority of artists are). Those are the people who are getting hurt the most from piracy. I don't give a shit about Metallica and their lost profits. I give a shit about the guy who's making music in his basement, but can't make a living at it because his work has been so devalued by people who think they are entitled to enjoy other people's work for free.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an artist making a profit. Art isn't some divine gift bestowed upon us by god. It's a skill and a trade. Artists invest time, money and effort into their work, and they deserve a return on their investment. It's no different then a carpenter investing in the proper tools of the trade and using his skills to earn a living. You would never suggest that a carpenter should work for you for free, so why do you believe artists should?

I'm not a whore because I found a skill that I'm good at and decided to make a living at it.

[IGOTJOINTS4YA]

Originally Posted by Perpetual Burn

Artists are broke because the record labels keep all the profits from the sales... they pay the artists whatever measly rate they will accept before the album is ever made. Copyright infringement does not affect the artists at all... and the budren of proof is on you guys to show otherwise.

You know what makes me sad... "artists" who are in it for the money. That's not art... that's prosititution. Art is not about capitalizing on the work of others by charging them to experience your creation... it's about spreading your creation for all to experience the beauty of human nature and expression; don't drag art down into the material world.

A true artist wouldn't care that people experienced their work for free... only that they enjoyed it.

well people make a living off of dragging down art, and if you don't care about there living than go ahead and experience the art unrestricted.

But know this Penelope420 is one of the people you are hurting.

[Penelope420]

You know what makes me sad... "artists" who are in it for the money. That's not art... that's prosititution. Art is not about capitalizing on the work of others by charging them to experience your creation... it's about spreading your creation for all to experience the beauty of human nature and expression; don't drag art down into the material world.

A true artist wouldn't care that people experienced their work for free... only that they enjoyed it.

Ok, I'm not done. This really, really pisses me off.

Art has been a trade for almost as long as there have been humans. It's hard work that takes a lot of skill. To say that any artist who has made a profit on their work isn't a "true artist" is probably one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read.

It takes a very entitled attitude to believe that others should work for you, for free.

Will you come mow my lawn this weekend? I won't pay you... the sheer joy of doing the work should be enough!

[Perpetual Burn]

Originally Posted by Penelope420

Very few musicians are actually represented by record labels. Stop talking about the very, very small percentage of artists who are making millions of dollars, and start focusing on small, independent artists (which the vast majority of artists are). Those are the people who are getting hurt the most from piracy. I don't give a shit about Metallica and their lost profits. I give a shit about the guy who's making music in his basement, but can't make a living at it because his work has been so devalued by people who think they are entitled to enjoy other people's work for free.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an artist making a profit. Art isn't some divine gift bestowed upon us by god. It's a skill and a trade. Artists invest time, money and effort into their work, and they deserve a return on their investment. It's no different then a carpenter investing in the proper tools of the trade and using his skills to earn a living. You would never suggest that a carpenter should work for you for free, so why do you believe artists should?

I'm not a whore because I found a skill that I'm good at and decided to make a living at it.

I feel that art is a gift bestowed upon us. Maybe your art is a skill... but as far as I'm concererned, no one can learn Dark Side of the Moon. If art really was a skill and a trade, why should anyone pay you for your art? They could just find someone else to do it, maybe for cheaper. Because obviously the art itself isn't what's valuable... only the time and energy.

"We are all whores in our own way"... only most of us don't call ourselves artists.

Art has been a trade for almost as long as there have been humans. It's hard work that takes a lot of skill. To say that any artist who has made a profit on their work isn't a "true artist" is probably one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read.

I'm not saying you can't make a profit or that anyone who makes a living off their art isn't a "true artist," but to punish people who download music or experience it free by fining them hundreds of thousands of dollars or imprisoning them is not "artistic integrity," that's tyrannical greed. You've got to think about how laws are applied in the real world.

An unenforcable law is usually a bad one.

It takes a very entitled attitude to believe that others should work for you, for free.

Will you come mow my lawn this weekend? I won't pay you... the sheer joy of doing the work should be enough!

No one forced you to be an artist. You're the one who chose to turn something as beautiful and pure as art into a "trade."


Fuckit- let's put an end to this argument right now:

I've downloaded approximately 3,000 songs in my life... how long should I go to prison for?

[IGOTJOINTS4YA]

Your trying to make this issue into a non-black&white issue when that is what it is, you copy music and distribute it to millions of people makes you libel for theft, that is what this is about. Stop trying to turn this into an art discussion, these are these people lively hoods you are stealing from, stop acting like it is not.

should food be free?

it was made to enrich peoples lives, but it took a person the effort to make it, and in our society when you put effort into something you get rewarded with a wage.

[Perpetual Burn]

Originally Posted by IGOTJOINTS4YA

Your trying to make this issue into a non-black&white issue when that is what it is, you copy music and distribute it to millions of people makes you libel for theft, that is what this is about. Stop trying to turn this into an art discussion, these are these people lively hoods you are stealing from, stop acting like it is not.

should food be free?

it was made to enrich peoples lives, but it took a person the effort to make it, and in our society when you put effort into something you get rewarded with a wage.

It's not a black and white issue... we live in reality, with colors.

I've downloaded approximately 3,000 songs in my life... how long should I go to prison for?

[IGOTJOINTS4YA]

Originally Posted by Perpetual Burn

It's not a black and white issue... we live in reality, with colors.

I've downloaded approximately 3,000 songs in my life... how long should I go to prison for?

It should not be you getting in trouble, it should be the people who own the torrent sites, or atleast the ones maintaining them. Like how the DEA cracks down on the huge smugglers coming into the US giving us shitty bricked weed. Cut out the black market part of it and don't crack down on the small time guys. That would decrease traffic of pirating to a mangable number and increase money going to artists.

Artist do not make nearly as much off of concert sales as album sales also, I want to get that out there.

[Penelope420]

You don't deserve to go to jail, but you do deserve to pay the artists for the work you stole from them.

You're trying to turn art into something it's not in order to justify your theft.

Yes, some people are born with artistic ability, more so then others. Some people are born with a scientific mind. If they then decide to go into a scientific field are they beholden to work for the rest of society for free, just because they were born with that specific talent?

Art is no different then any other skill or trade. If you want "pure" art, then make your own or find artists who are willing to give their work away. To those of us that do it for a living, it's business. Just because it effects people on a more emotional level, then say physics, doesn't mean that the work and effort that goes into it are any less then any other skill or trade. You want to enjoy the results, but ignore the process and deny the artist. People deserve to get paid for their work. If someone doesn't want to hire me because they feel I'm too expensive or they can find someone to do it cheaper, that's fine, but that doesn't give them the right to then use my work anyway.

You are also confusing "distributing" with "enjoying". I have a website where anyone who wants to is able to go and view and enjoy my photos for free. But if you want to distribute those photos, or copy them, or for use them for any other purpose then your own enjoyment, then you need to get my permission first, otherwise it's theft. You can enjoy music legally, for free, on the radio. If you want more rights then that, then pay for them.

What it boils down to is that you believe other people should work for you for free. You may argue that it's something "beautiful and pure", but you are devaluing the art world immensely with your words and your actions. Art IS beautiful, and pure, and raw, and emotional, and ugly... but it is still VALUABLE.

[IGOTJOINTS4YA]

Is this street performer a prostitute?

he is offering a valuable trade, to people for donations, the music industry is the same thing, only on a larger stage.

[Buzzard]

I buy and pirate. I mainly pirate when I can't find what I want to buy or if it's a millionare artist. I support the little guys. I bought Arcade Fire's "Funeral" and "Neon Bible" upon release because I love the band and both albums. However I downloaded leaked versions first.

[numba1stunna885]

I don't care what anyone says....gas is $3.50 a gallon, milk is $4 a gallon, most people can barely pays their bills. So when something that I would normally need to pay for is available for free, yes I am going to take advantage of that. I don't give a flying fuck about musicians, if I had no money do you think I could call one of them up and ask for a handout? If you can get something for free and you pay for it? Well there's only one explanation....you're a straight up sucker who thinks that these artists care even the littlest bit about you. It's the American way, get it any way you can and it ain't stealing if you don't get caught. Save that emotional "support the artists you're making them lose their hard earned money" for someone else that shit is extra corny.

[Penelope420]

Originally Posted by numba1stunna885

I don't care what anyone says....gas is $3.50 a gallon, milk is $4 a gallon, most people can barely pays their bills. So when something that I would normally need to pay for is available for free, yes I am going to take advantage of that. I don't give a flying fuck about musicians, if I had no money do you think I could call one of them up and ask for a handout? If you can get something for free and you pay for it? Well there's only one explanation....you're a straight up sucker who thinks that these artists care even the littlest bit about you. It's the American way, get it any way you can and it ain't stealing if you don't get caught. Save that emotional "support the artists you're making them lose their hard earned money" for someone else that shit is extra corny.

Thinking you are entitled to other people's work for free makes you a spoiled brat.

But at least you recognize that it's theft.

[IGOTJOINTS4YA]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

I buy and pirate. I mainly pirate when I can't find what I want to buy or if it's a millionare artist. I support the little guys. I bought Arcade Fire's "Funeral" and "Neon Bible" upon release because I love the band and both albums. However I downloaded leaked versions first.

I've done the same thing, I buy the albums from artist that I truely love and small guys.

But I admit I have pirated, but haven't rescently, I usually only download discographies of artist that are older that I can not find there music. That is the true good thing about pirated material, it allows you to find things that are not really sold in stores, that is something I do support.

When people pirated albums that just rescently come out and cause that album to tank, that pisses me off. I hate when I saw a hanna montana CD on the top of the charts to, that kind of shit should never happen, but because of pirating hanna montana has a chance.

[numba1stunna885]

Originally Posted by Penelope420

Thinking you are entitled to other people's work for free makes you a spoiled brat.

But at least you recognize that it's theft.

Paying for something that you can get for free is being a sucker....period.

If it's not making them enough money then maybe they should find another line of work? I don't know why you make it seem like we should all feel sorry for these poor artists living in their mansions. Fuck that I'm tryna get rich and the money I've saved over the years not buying CD's is helping me get there. I don't give a flying fuck what you think anyways so call me a brat 100 times. I bet you'd buy milk even if there was a way to get it free because...

"well those poor cows and dairy farmers " cry me a fuckin river fuck outta here with that lame shit keep thinkin that you're 13.99 is doing anything but making you poorer. I hate that shit making everyone else feel like they have some sort of moral obligation to pay for something that they can get for free just because it's "art". Keep looking down at people for being smarter than you, it shows how dumb you truly are.