Why would you even vote for Obama?

[Medicine Al]

Originally Posted by Perpetual Burn

It's this kind of blind optimism (or in your case misdirected cynicism) that is going to win John McCain this election. This is legitimate advice for you Obama supporters... quit pretending Obama is not pro-war! Seriously, how could the media let Obama win when everyone who supports him lives under the delusion that he is a peacenik? What will happen to the psyche of this nation and the world for that matter if Obama gets elected and starts a war with Iran? Shit, he only wants to pull out of Iraq (in 16 months after we've got plenty of time to stabilize our permanent bases) so he can refocus our efforts in Afghanistan.

Obama is a strong proponent of the offensive global war on terror and "will not hesitate to use force against any of America's enemies." He parrots all the same lies about how Ahmedinejad is a "madman" and a nuclear threat to the world... despite the fact that Iran suspended it's nuclear weapons campaign in 2003. He votes to provide a blank check for the military to continue fighting in Iraq despite his initial opposition to the war (he wasn't running for president then though.) Obama could not be any more pro-war if he walked around with an M-16 over his shoulder.

I don't see why you consider yourself so politically 'literate' yet are blind to the fact that Obama is pro-war. Wikipedia should add this as an example of "The pot calling the kettle black."

Al, generally you are one of the most logically cynical posters around here, but I really cannot figure out why you support Obama. You obvioulsy think Bush is in the pocket of Big Oil and the MIC... and anyone with half a brain would agree, but how you could be so naive to think that Obama is something different blows my mind.

You will know me by my enemies.

Barack Obama's main problem is that he's trying not to get " Kennedy-ed" before the election.

Any candidate who does not appear to support rampant militarism, will be shot.

Do not mistake the DNC position for his, he believes in working to achieve a balance between the powers that have a chokehold on America ( Mickey Mouse ), and the less domineering America we could become if we ratcheted the warriors down to a useful level of excess.

One candidate will offer you the chance to break the present cycle, one will not even try.

Obama has a heart, a brain, and courage. The wizard won't have to fix him, when he reaches OZ.

McCain is just a bitter old failure as a warrior, who can't tell his old boss to fuck off. He is a threat to himself and everyone around him, like a lot of Vietnam vets who came back as broken men, that's what brainwashing and torture do to you.

It makes you unable to see what a real threat looks like. You know, like the poor blind germans back in the 30's. They thought the threat was outside their country too.

But it kicked the front door right down. From the inside.

[Trick42o]

smoke weed?

[CosmicSerpent]

Originally Posted by Medicine Al

You will know me by my enemies.

Barack Obama's main problem is that he's trying not to get " Kennedy-ed" before the election.

Any candidate who does not appear to support rampant militarism, will be shot.

Do not mistake the DNC position for his, he believes in working to achieve a balance between the powers that have a chokehold on America ( Mickey Mouse ), and the less domineering America we could become if we ratcheted the warriors down to a useful level of excess.

One candidate will offer you the chance to break the present cycle, one will not even try.

Well said.

Also, there's a major difference between a "war on terror" in a large scale sense, and a war on the specific terrorist organizations that attacked us in the past. Bush and McCain have shown a clear example of the former, in which it's justifiable to attack anyone who we feel might possibly pose a threat. Obama's plan is to pull out of Iraq and refocus on al-Qaeda and the Taliban, which are both still in operation and capable of growing. We should have done this 7 years ago, but we got side-tracked with Iraq halfway through. It won't be an invasion of Afghanistan like Iraq was. All efforts will be specifically targeted at these organizations.

And I like how the OP challenged everyone to debate him, but I was ignored when I very clearly went over each one of his points and explained why I disagreed.

[bkadoctaj]

To PerpetualBurn: I see CosmicSerpent's point here. The "War on Terror" is used rhetorically to cover most of our current administration's forays into the Middle East. Obama refers to it in the sense that, yes, we must protect our homeland, but not with preemptive strikes against dictatorships that never sponsored the terrorism to begin with. This aggressive kind of behavior is what makes discontented populations more tolerant of terrorists operating amongst them.

The U.S. has moral power that is infinitely stronger than military and economic power. The Information Age is here, and corrupt politicians with chips on their shoulders know that their time is running thin. Sure, scare tactics... scary. No, predictable.

[Bluntzilla420]

Originally Posted by bkadoctaj

Lack of faith in the government is understandable based on growing up in the last 8 years. I totally understand where you're coming from because I had to battle it myself. Government does have a purpose, and to deny that you're where you are at today in part because of the government formed over two hundred and thirty years is kind of silly. Fuck the government is nice in theory. If everyone were you, things would be excellent too, right?



Oh, which candidate did you vote for in the last two elections? Did he or she win?

Sucker... jk

EDIT: Oops, I shouldn't be jumping to conclusions... you may have voted for Bush.

Sucker... (still) jk again

I wasn't old enough, but I fucking hate Al Gore (as I have reiterated on this forum many times) and John Kerry was a joke as well. So I probably would have voted for Bush if I could. Or Nader.

[wackdeafboy]

EVERYBODY NEED TO GET THEIR FACT STRight bout obama,
this is real facts!

why everybody belive what mccain is telling u, he full of lies, he using obamas words against him, i mean come on! plus the fuckin slut milf, if mccain dies, well shit, we are in shit hole i dont think we last till 2012

Originally Posted by CosmicSerpent

Obama has the experience and credentials to be a viable candidate... he has served almost 4 years as a U.S. Senator, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs, 8 years as an Illinois State Senator, community organizer, graduated from Columbia and Harvard Law, President of the Harvard Law Review, etc. Just because he isn't part of a well-known political family or a Washington insider doesn't mean he's just some random unqualified person.

His daughters are both too young to be married.. it was him and his wife who were married by Rev. Wright. And there is no record that Wright made such degrading comments prior to the last year or so. If you look at the big picture, the issue was over a man who was fed up with the government (like most of us are) and said some things in the heat of the moment that he shouldn't have. But of course in today's politics, guilt by association is all that matters. Obama has since left the church and denounced the comments made by his former pastor.

If you really look at their records, McCain has flip-flopped on more issues than Obama has. All politicians are guilty of trying to appeal to a certain crowd from time to time. We all know McCain was considered to be a pretty liberal Republican until his recent desperate attempts to bring in the conservative base.

This is an argument I hear all the time - that Obama just throws around the word change without having any substance. I don't understand where this is coming from... from everything I've heard, he has very clearly described what is wrong with our government and laid out detailed plans on how to change it. He certainly seems more knowledgeable about important issues than McCain, who openly admits he doesn't know much about the economy, but thinks it is in good shape. Go to Obama's website and click on "Issues" if there is anything you're uncertain about.

Obama's plan for health care would actually allow patients with more urgent and serious needs to be first priority. His plan is designed to get rid of all the waiting and unnecessary processes that people currently have to go through. It's not about giving a free ride... it's about making the system work better for everyone. Including those who already have sufficient care, and those who are suffering through no fault of their own.

If you want to talk about balancing the budget, it is very clear that Obama is fiscally more conservative than McCain. The Republicans are supposed to be the party against wasteful and excessive spending, yet each Republican administration (especially Bush) has given us a new record high national debt. Clinton managed to lower it and actually produce a surplus, by keeping the economy strong, and only allowing legislature to pass that could be paid for. Obama plans to do the same.

As far as taxes, Obama would lower them significantly for people who make less than $250,000 a year, which is 95% of the country. McCain would lower them across the board, which would send us into further debt. Not to mention that the war is costing us billions of dollars we don't have every month.

The war was based on intelligence that has now been proven unreliable and false. Our government told us that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction, and that Saddam Hussein was an immediate threat to the U.S. Neither of these things were true. There was no connection to al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or 9/11, and although we weren't on the best terms, war was completely avoidable. We can all agree that the world is better off without Saddam, but it wasn't worth the trillions of dollars we've spent and the lives we've lost on both sides. Bush claimed he was against nation-building when he campaigned in 2000. We've done nothing but create further tension in the region and severely damage our reputation with the rest of the world.

What we should have done was put all our effort into defeating the terrorist organizations that attacked us, but instead we got sidetracked with Iraq and created a bigger problem.

[Perpetual Burn]

I certainly hope you guys are right... I just find it hard to believe that centuries of imperialism will come to a halt any time soon. But hey, maybe we'll get a couple years of peace during McBama's second term.

[tfunkadelic]

Originally Posted by Perpetual Burn

I certainly hope you guys are right... I just find it hard to believe that centuries of imperialism will come to a halt any time soon. But hey, maybe we'll get a couple years of peace during McBama's second term.

Hey, we stopped slavery, women and blacks got the right to vote, and we've (kind of) desegregated along with other big shit. This country is capable of change, and now is as good a time as any.

It should be obvious that it won't happen if no one expects it to though...

[Tray Dub]

This thread is proof that any thread can prosper with a good title, even if the OP is a dumbass.

[bkadoctaj]

Originally Posted by Bluntzilla420

I wasn't old enough, but I fucking hate Al Gore (as I have reiterated on this forum many times) and John Kerry was a joke as well. So I probably would have voted for Bush if I could. Or Nader.

If John Kerry was a joke, what could Bush and Nader have been?

Anyway, here's John Kerry shining, at the right time and right place for him to do so:

Thank you so much. Four years ago, you gave me the honor of fighting our fight. I was proud to stand with you then, and I am proud to stand with you now, to help elect Barack Obama as President of the United States.
In 2004, we came so close to victory. We are even closer now, and let me tell you, this time we’re going to win. Today, the call for change is more powerful than ever, and with more seats in Congress, with more people with more passion engaged in our politics, and with a President Obama, we stand on the brink of the greatest opportunity of our generation to move this country forward.
The stakes could not be higher, because we do know what a McCain administration would look like: just like the past, just like George Bush. And this country can’t afford a third Bush term. Just think: John McCain voted with George Bush 90 percent of the time. Ninety percent of George Bush is just more than we can take.
Never in modern history has an administration squandered American power so recklessly. Never has strategy been so replaced by ideology. Never has extremism so crowded out common sense and fundamental American values. Never has short-term partisan politics so depleted the strength of America’s bipartisan foreign policy.
George Bush, with John McCain at his side, promised to spread freedom but delivered the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time. They misread the threat and misled the country. Instead of freedom, it’s Hamas, Hezbollah, the Taliban and dictators everywhere that are on the march. North Korea has more bombs, and Iran is defiantly chasing one.
Our mission is to restore America’s influence and position in the world. We must use all the weapons in our arsenal, above all, our values. President Obama and Vice President Biden will shut down Guantanamo, respect the Constitution, and make clear once and for all, the United States of America does not torture, not now, not ever.
We must listen and lead by example because even a nation as powerful as the United States needs some friends in this world. We need a leader who understands all our security challenges, not just bombs and guns, but global warming, global terror and global AIDS. And Barack Obama understands there is no way for America to be secure until we create clean energy here at home, not with a little more oil in five, 10 or 20 years, but with an energy revolution starting right now.
I have known and been friends with John McCain for almost 22 years. But every day now I learn something new about candidate McCain. To those who still believe in the myth of a maverick instead of the reality of a politician, I say, let’s compare Senator McCain to candidate McCain.
Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain’s own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote. Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before you’re against it.
Let me tell you, before he ever debates Barack Obama, John McCain should finish the debate with himself. And what’s more, Senator McCain, who once railed against the smears of Karl Rove when he was the target, has morphed into candidate McCain who is using the same “Rove” tactics and the same “Rove” staff to repeat the same old politics of fear and smear. Well, not this year, not this time. The Rove-McCain tactics are old and outworn, and America will reject them in 2008.
So remember, when we choose a commander-in-chief this November, we are electing judgment and character, not years in the Senate or years on this earth. Time and again, Barack Obama has seen farther, thought harder, and listened better. And time and again, Barack Obama has been proven right.
When John McCain stood on the deck of an aircraft carrier just three months after 9/11 and proclaimed, “Next up, Baghdad!”, Barack Obama saw, even then, “an occupation of “undetermined length, undetermined cost, undetermined consequences” that would “only fan the flames of the Middle East.” Well, guess what? Mission accomplished.
So who can we trust to keep America safe? When Barack Obama promised to honor the best traditions of both parties and talk to our enemies, John McCain scoffed. George Bush called it “the soft comfort of appeasement.” But today, Bush’s diplomats are doing exactly what Obama said: talking with Iran.
So who can we trust to keep America safe? When democracy rolled out of Russia, and the tanks rolled into Georgia, we saw John McCain respond immediately with the outdated thinking of the Cold War. Barack Obama responded like a statesman of the 21st century.
So who can we trust to keep America safe? When we called for a timetable to make Iraqis stand up for Iraq and bring our heroes home, John McCain called it “cut and run.” But today, even President Bush has seen the light. He and Prime Minister Maliki agree on guess what? a timetable.
So who can we trust to keep America safe? The McCain-Bush Republicans have been wrong again and again and again. And they know they will lose on the issues. So, the candidate who once promised a “contest of ideas,” now has nothing left but personal attacks. How insulting to suggest that those who question the mission, question the troops. How pathetic to suggest that those who question a failed policy doubt America itself. How desperate to tell the son of a single mother who chose community service over money and privilege that he doesn’t put America first.
No one can question Barack Obama’s patriotism. Like all of us, he was taught what it means to be an American by his family: his grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line in World War II, his grandfather who marched in Patton’s army, and his great uncle who enlisted in the army right out of high school at the height of the war. And on a spring day in 1945, he helped liberate one of the concentration camps at Buchenwald.
Ladies and gentlemen, Barack Obama’s uncle is here with us tonight. Please join me in saluting this American hero, Charlie Payne. Charlie, your nephew, Barack Obama, will end this politics of distortion and division. He will be a president who seeks not to perfect the lies of Swift boating, but to end them once and for all.
This election is a chance for America to tell the merchants of fear and division: you don’t decide who loves this country; you don’t decide who is a patriot; you don’t decide whose service counts and whose doesn’t.
Four years ago I said, and I say it again tonight, that the flag doesn’t belong to any ideology. It doesn’t belong to any political party. It is an enduring symbol of our nation, and it belongs to all the American people. After all, patriotism is not love of power or some cheap trick to win votes; patriotism is love of country.
Years ago when we protested a war, people would weigh in against us saying, “My country right or wrong.” Our answer? Absolutely, my country right or wrong. When right, keep it right. When wrong, make it right. Sometimes loving your country demands you must tell the truth to power.
This is one of those times, and Barack Obama is telling those truths.
In closing, let me say, I will always remember how we stood together in 2004, not just in a campaign, but for a cause. Now again we stand together in the ranks, ready to fight. The choice is clear; our cause is just; and now is our time to make Barack Obama the next President of the United States.
Thank you

[mbleezy]

Originally Posted by Tray Dub

This thread is proof that any thread can prosper with a good title, even if the OP is a dumbass.

i like how you talk shit all the time and make yourself look fucking stupid, how about you actually talk about your opinion and stop making fun of others....

[tintala]

Why would you even vote for MCAIN?
Same polices , sick and dying ppl go to jail for using and herb that saves lives,

if your not a med mmj user then you don't understand how many sick ppl go to jail for using this herb. Not just that, but does anyone really think that MCBUSH will legalize hemp a MUCH needed renewable reource , waaayyyyy better than oil .

[ziggyshugenadz]

Originally Posted by mbleezy

Why would you even vote for Obama? He has no experience, no one knows anything about him besides that last year of his life. He has been with a church that openly degrades America. He had his daughter married by the preacher of that same church. He flip flops on most of his opinions depending on what the crowd wants. He only talks about change and does not really describe his own plans. He NEVER fully answers a question.

I DO NOT LIKE EITHER CANDIDATE BUT OUT OF THE TWO MCCAIN IS BETTER!

ISSUES:

Universal Health care- This idea is crap, people do not THINK in depth about this. Yeah it sounds good. Everyone gets health care and everyones happy right? NO. People do not realize how much the quality of care is going to go down. There will be so many people in the hostipals that the wait will be even longer than it is now. With universal heath care also comes more taxes because who is going to pay for it besides tax payers.

Iraq War- The Iraq war is a war. What do people excpet? NO WAR is just simple. It takes time and money... If we were in it for the Oil why are the prices going up? and dont you think that if we were after the oil we would have it already? I agree that it is getting old and that we should reduce the number of troops but we CANNOT just leave all of those people over there without nothing. They will go back to the communists way they were and we would have gone over there for absolutly nothing. And i hate when people say that we should have never went over there. Thats like saying "Oh well that killed 3000 people for no reason. We will forgive you!". And when 9/11 happened EVERYONE wanted to go to war but now that its costing money people dont agree with it.

MCCAIN 2008!!!!!

AND DO NOT JUST VOTE FOR OBAMA BECAUSE HE IS BLACK, AND THINK ABOUT IT....IF HE WAS WHITE WOULD YOU STILL HAVE CONSIDERED HIM? MAKE SURE YOU ACTUALLY INFOM YOURSELF ABOUT EACH CANDIATE BEFORE YOU MAKE A DECISION!

And thats just some of my opinions comment back so we can agrue haha



(Sorry if I am off on somethings but I think all the statements made above are true if not look them up and correct me)

1. barack obama is not a robot for the coporate fat cats that currently rule this world
2.i am atheist, so anything you have to say about church, religion, or any thing remotely related is absolute nonsense for me (remember, religion and politics are 2 different things, and if we started by truly making our church and state SEPERATE! we wouldnt be in this big fucking mess in the first place)
3. if you think the healthcare system right now is good than you are truly insane, please stay home on election day.
4. qoute- The Iraq war is a war.......... NO. WRONG. the iraq "war" is not a war AT ALL. the current administration has done a wonderful job of making you think so. if you look on wikipedia, the status of the war is "conflict ongoing" which means that the president NEVER DECLARED WAR. doing so gives more power to the congress so that they make the major decisions like bugdeting and how they will fight, with who, etc. staying out of a declared war gives the president (president bush, who you voted for twice you ass) more power and decision making.

so please do not get me started

learn something

peace

ziggy.

[dafinestsniper]

I fought in Iraq "front lines" with the fighting 5th Marine Div. 03-04.

I was lied to by My President (commander and chief). who sent me to Iraq to kill or capture Saddam free the Iraq's form a brutle dictator and recover Weapons of mass destruction. (yeah right)

After 1 hour into invading Iraq the mission quickly turned into succure the oil fields in southern Iraq and kill ANYONE near or in the oil feilds. Bush even issued us rubber bullets so we would not destroy the oil lines. (News doesnt tell that shit!!)

as a result of the lies and piss poor planing I lost 2 of my best friends and I was shot in Iraq Apr 13 2003. (Nearly died) Im not crying about what happened because I would lay my life down for my country at the drop of a dime.

Us Vets feel betrayed by Bush/McCain they give us rat filled hospitials to recover in, with no running water, no counceling (back then) unarmored vehicles. and still continue to lie to us and send us over there to die, for a reason I dont even know anymore.

John McCain wants to cut my disability check by 20%.WTF I thought he would understand how hard it is coming back home after war.(why)
He wants to keep us in this bullshit for 100 years.(why)
he seems to be still in the fog of war. or fogot about us period.

Obama seems more in touch with us Vets and everyday working folk. he expressed he wants to make sure we get or medicine., treatment, and most of all get us out of that lie.

So... Fuck Bush, Fuck McCain my vote goes to Obama!!


sorry no quotes, this comes from real life expirences.

Semper Fi,

MIA/KIA you or not forgotten

[cork144]

Originally Posted by mbleezy

I dont know if you were trying to insult me or not, but that just one issue that i talked about, and if your so smart than what other reason did we go to war besides to get Saddam Hussan (sorry for spelling) and stop them from comminting terrorist acts? And if you guys wanna debate with me than do it do not try to be a smart ass.

HAHAHAHAHA, saddam was causing terrorist acts?, they actually said he was harbouring terrorists linked to 9/11, didnt find any in iraq though