and @the Journey, I thought you were calling me an idiot so I called you one, and I apologize for acting like a child.
All is well. I just misread what you were saying, and thus you misunderstood my intentions in what I said. We're good
No one likes to be told they are wrong. That goes for both sides of course... I've never really met an atheist, just this one kid in my philosophy class that tries to always start a debate with the teacher who happens to be Jewish. It'd be great if the teacher, and the rest of the class got more into it. I'm pretty sure both sides could get interesting statements, and ideas out without getting aggressive. I enjoy hearing the concepts, and ideas all sides have to offer.
when i was an athiest, i just kept it to myself because i learned in high school you don't even want to admit you're an athiest when the subject comes up and one hypochristian starts hooting that you should die until the whole classroom turns on you and you grab a pencil and tell the instigator, bring it, all of you, but you're going first. i had the exact same thing happen too at a job in a small office with 5 or 6 co-workers when a blonde wench barked "someone should just kill you." and there i am again grabbing whatever is closest & the best weapon & saying bring it until a native american in the group talls everyone to just chill out. i have been threatened with death at least two times by christians (with many more condemnations to hell) and would like to ask ALL cristians how many times an athiest has threatened to do ANYTHING to them. i would be annoyed just as annoyed by the athiest who goes out of his way to get into confrontations as the theist who likes to use group dynamics as a weapon. if EITHER side of the debate is simply looking for the truth and otherwise living a righteous life, who the eff should care? just believing in a god doesn't make you righteous DESPITE the bible's loophole basically saying "as long as you apologize sincerely at the end, you'll be OK" it's what you DO that matters no matter what language you speak or what belief system you're supposed to be indoctrinated into. it's like that great saying by martin luther king about not judging man by the color of his skin but by the content of his heart. that's how G rolls as far as i'm concerned. you either do the right thing for it's own sake, or you're a fake.
That's exactly why I started this thread. What is so terrifying that they need to resort to death threats?
1. look at the hate and VENOM in YOUR speech. where's the love thy neighbor & turn the the other cheek from YOUR book?! even when i WAS an athiest (ALWAYS looking for the TRUTH), i probably read more of the bible than you have. i didn't "worship an athiest book" (never even knew there was an "official" book to worship), i just looked at the evidence like we have 99% of the same genetics as chimps... oh that REALLY scares religious whackos who already are terrified of different races & religions (or lack thereof). and i looked at all of the ridiculous & contradictory stuff in it written by HUMANS. 2. when i WAS an athiest, it was precisely because of a hate mongering hypocrite like YOU reading the "and god said go forth and SMITE the amaleks" passage which i KNEW, once smite was explained to mean killed when i questioned that obvious and EVIL contradiction in the bible (nothing like watching delusional christians pile more lies on top of lies when you catch them in the act) that goes against one of the 10 COMMANDMENTS (or in YOUR case, rules of thumb) that says "thou shalt not kill." like the hypochristians who protested the funeral of a murdered homosexual despite there being NO COMMANDMENTS against it, but there sure as eff being one against killing. i have no patience with hypocrites who attack others for not believing what they do when they can't even follow their OWN belief system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'll be the 1st to admit that i'm homophobic, ESPECIALLY when it's a queen, but i have no handy book to rationalize me going out and hurting a queer. i just have to accept their right to drop the soap in the shower. besides, if someone isn't invading your space, why should it even matter? 3. i LOVE that biblical rule as well as all of the GOOD parts that aren't ruined by faulty, sometimes perverted, human writers muddling up what could be a perfect book of inspiration. what one gets out of the bible (i USED TO call it the wholely libel) is up to them. you can live a quiet honest simple life like the amish, or you can get a holier than thou gun and be terrified and hateful of anyone different than you without EVER giving them a chance to be your friend. i've met truly spiritual people from all races and belief systems myself on the way of becoming at first agnostic and now a budding spiritual person (it's not easy!) who still doesn't accept ANY man made book (the bible was written by men and NOT got no matter how many knee jerk ignorants claim that LIE). i love TRUE christians who simply use the good book as inspiration to live truly spiritual lives simply doing the right thing and loving ALL like those who work at soup kitchens that welcome all without judgement because their hearts aren't poisoned 4. i have been threatened with death myself TWICE simply for honestly ANSWERING that i'm an athiest 2 times WHEN ASKED! i HATE that fake christians are so threatened by belief systems that aren't theirs that they seek to silence (or even kill) anyone who disagrees with them, but once you confront a big mouth hate mongerer and all the other fidiots hooting for your death behind them and let them know you aren't afraid of dying and that you're taking the instigator with you and as many more as you can in the fight, they will STFU as their "convictions" dwindle to mumbling. even as an athiest, i believed in "GOOD" as you would try to put words in my mouth, and LIVED IT! i never started trouble (i'm NOT so good when i have to END trouble though, in fact i'm really bad then), didn't steal, didn't revel in horror and violence and have ALWAYS been too honest for my own good. honesty causes more trouble than not in this messed up world. 5. the bible isn't even the issue. the issue is where your heart is no matter what you believe. you're either a selfish "us & them" ahole whose knee jerk reaction is to fear what it can't understand, or someone who opens your heart and mind to new ideas and truths from wherever they may come. you can be a slave to hate and fear, or you can open yourself up to caring about the big picture as shown by recent studies comparing the thinking patterns of extreme right wingers and liberals thatshow that right wingers thinking patterns are based primarily in there "fight or flee" fear centers where liberals like to look at whatever's going on before making their mind up. Brain Differences Found Between Democrats and Republicans - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com i can't find the original article i read on yahoo that did actual brain scans even though it was news just a few days ago. i most certainly DO believe in god, but my god doesn't care what society you were born in or what belief system you chose, but only whether there's goodness in your heart. NO bible is needed for that. EVERY adult capable of thinking knows the difference between right and wrong. you can either chose to ignore it convinced that you're special and above the law with everyone else beneath you, or you can just do it for it's own sake. i'm finding that opening myself up to sharing and caring on the personal level (VERY hard for me to do!!!) only pays me back with the love that's been missing in my life keeping all of the angry back stabbing people that have given me serious trust issues (i keep to myself and NOT externalize) and is making me happier. i'm still having to deal with power seeking reptiles out to get me at every turn and am depressed by that, but the caring is helping and i've seen stronger love from strangers recently than my own alleged family. it isn't what you believe that makes you spiritual, it's how you ACT. i REALLY feel sorry for hypocristians who think religion is an "who knows more biblical quotes?" game show. has an athiest EVER threatened to kill you ONCE? no, because their belief system leaves no room for one to rationalize hate & evil into "rigtheousness". they know that murder is wrong. the two times i got into the life & death game with hypocristians, THEY started it by asking what i believed and just couldn't tolerate my answer. i can't speak for other athiests, but i know having to put up with crap from people that only know fear when i'm just trying to mind my business filled me with a lot of hate and contempt for the religiously insane. they are no different than a terrorists. they want everyone that disagrees with them dead and will even rationalize brutal inhuman torture as "the will of god" in their insanely deluded mind. as to agnosticism, it's in between athiesm & religion. i see it as a way of saying "i don't know what is and isn't real and can't find an absolute answer in either science OR religion.". it's simply keeping an open mind until the ultimate truth presents itself. in remembering forgotten parts of my childhood, i've had 1st hand personal experience with god and deeply believe in him now, but still consider myself agnostic because i see much hate and bllodshed in the name of ALL religions. it was christianity that drove the holocaust, the protestand reformation, salem witch trials, the spanish inquisition and if you reallyt want to see how "spiritual" christian leaders are, look up the story of the pope and the waltz of the chestnuts. (an orgy) i tell you, if you're a christian that fills your life with hate & fear and not love, you won't be going where you THINK you are in the end and will watch athiests, muslims, budhists & nature worshippers flying right past you with purer hearts. i just hope i haven't embraced spirituality too late to save me from the bad things i've let others talk me into or giving into my rage & doing them myself. god has proven ITSELF to exist to me when i died and met IT, but it's only proven to me. people don't want to hear it when you try to share your scientifically "impossible" experience and try to label it hallucinations & drug use etc. (like i was really a stoner when i died the 1st time as a kid... BTW, no grownup would tell me just who that "jesus" or whoever guy was on the other side and just made me shut up leaving me with just a fragment of a bigger picture) i DO clearly remember though that i should have stayed in that freaky dimension where you don't have a body anymore and was told it would really suck if i had to go back, and it has sucked big time. remembering bits and pieces of it has pushed me to the spiritual side of agnosticism. my relationship with god is beween IT and i. i REALLY wish i could have brought a camcorder with me to document my experience though.
Its almost too obvious to me tht God isn't real, but I don't force my belief on anyone else I hate when ppl do that to me. Lol notice how I capitalized the g. I wish I still believed.
Why is it ok for athiest to share their views but if a non-athiest does it then that's "wrong". They are preaching their views just like religious people do.
because preaching isn't at all about sprituality, it's ALL about exerting your will and/or beliefs on others and when one choses NOT to talk about it, then the threats of "you're going to hell" etc. start. i'd like to know where all these "instigating athiests" are because i now i've never been one when i was still an athiest, but i've sure as eff met a lot of born agains who simply won't leave you alone and will follow you and berate you to make themselves feel better instead of just shutting the eff up and leading by example. too many christians are in it for the lust of power over others and NOT the truly spiritual "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" message that they should be living. maybe i AM one of those former athiests that whizzed you off when i refused to bend to your will and countered with facts you, in your infinite knowledge, dismiss as "lies planted by satan" and hate it when that makes me reply 'then where are the truths planted by god? are you saying that satan's power to reveal truths is stronger than god's?" honestly, christians can be insufferable scumbags when they want to. some of them just can't let it go until everyone around them is on their team, under their whip, or dead, but thankfully, there are plenty of good ones out there you never even notice because they're in full command of their relationship to god. just because you've met one or two big mouth athiests (and i would DEFINITELY have fallen in that camp WHEN CORNERED) doesn't mean they're ALL aholes. you know, something like 20% of americans (could have sworn it was twice that) are athiests & agnostics. does that mean that 1 in 5 people are out to get you and start crap with you? of course not! you never notice all of the athiests around you who just mind their biz and live their lives as best they can. it's annoying thatso many christians out there just live to ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK instead of LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE. what is so threatening about BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS by the way? "oh i just hate those liberals! they care too much about equality, hugging trees and generally helping too many people i don't like! they REALLY make me want to kill them when they start them effing peace protests!" if you want to do a tally of who CAN BE the bigger aholes, athiests or christians, do a body count of how many people have died in NUMEROUS christian wars and then name just ONE war fought in the name of athiesm. the last christian i put that question too ignorantly tried to say the holocaust was about athiesm when, um, at one point, the VATICAN was on board and hitler was into all kinds of religious symbols like the swastika from hinduism. fortunately, someone better at history than me pointed out the religious underpinnings i was ignorant of other than it be a war on judaism. look up statistics for born again christian crime rates, and you'll see that they have higher rates of murder, infidelity, sposal abuse, alcoholism, robbery, & road rage etc. and in some cases up to 20% higher rates. also take note that a MAJORITY of serial killers add religious themes to their crimes like posing victims as jesus as part of some twisted ceremony. AGAIN, all my love and respect to people of ANY faith (or even lack thereof) that live true to their hearts, follow the path of goodness, and aren't out to hurt anyone because their entire thinking process isn't poisoned by fear & hate. if you want to call yourself a christian & get respect from me, love thy neighbor as thee loves thyself. it ain't easy, glorious or profitable, but when you get that love back, mmmmmmmm that's good stuff. i can't get enough of it.
I don't see anything wrong with anyone expressing ther views. If a "christian" is sharing their views and someone doesn't want to hear it then I think they should be respectful.of it. I had religion crammed down my throat when I was a kid and now I know that most of what I was taught is a lie. I was quite agnostic for a while but now I believe in God but not in a religious way. I am not afraid of my views being challenged. I can express and defend my views logicly, reasonably, and with facts. I know what I believe and why I believe it. I don't believe in God simply becase a book says so. I don't base my views on assumptions and I sure as hell don't want to be lumped into a category with these so called "christians" who say ridiculous, baseless things just because I so happen to believe that God exists.