I have been pondering lately: "what controls the universe- everything and anything- in its entirety?" So, I thought it was something like this: everything has a cause. That cause came from another cause, and that one from another cause. This pattern goes to a length in which I cannot comprehend. Every cause and any cause started at 1 single point: creation of pure existence, and goes on and on from there. Every cause, if worked backwards, leads to that single point: beginning of existence. Every single action (or cause) is somehow linked to each other. Are you understanding? I find things like this hard to explain... Se let me give a crude, small example: -Let's say your friend got beat up -He got beat up because he was in a bad neighborhood -he was in a bad neighborhood because the other street was closed down -the other street was closed down because of a wreck -this wreck was caused by an elderly women who swerved because she saw a cat in the road -their was a cat in the road because its owners abandoned it. -They abandoned it because they are poor -(and so on and so on) As you see, we can safely say IF the owners of the cat were actually rich, your friend would have not been beaten up. And keep in mind, there can be multiple causes from another cause instead of just one like I listed above (if I did it that way it would look like a graph, get me?). So, essentially, this system of cause and effect ultimately runs the universe. It can explain miracles and it can explain suffering. The causes can get so specific it can go down as far as one atom covalently bonded to anther atom, which caused this: etc, etc. In some of your actions, you have no chance of altering them, because once they take their course, it's (almost?) impossible to change where they head. So what do you guys think? Am I just a lunatic, can you understand? Arnack
I think I know what you're saying. It's not that everything happens for a reason, it's that everything that happens is connected in some way or another, so don't try to control your entire life and just let the pieces fall into place.
i understand completely what you mean. i honestly beleive that we are all in are own little reality that no one else has. like say your bob. well then your in bobs reality. and im nick so id be in that reality. then all these reality are intertwined and connected in some sort of way. like we are all part of the bigger picture.. just a part. idk...
yeah bro that's what I was kinda thinking a while ago. Everyone's got their own reality, their own perception of life and it's hard to understand other peoples' realities because you haven't had their experiences, their experiences shaped their reality fuck i dunno where I'm going with this And yeah Arnack, I understand what you're saying man it's buzzy to think about... and it's the small actions too, it's every minute detail, everything you do...
Indeed, ultimately all phenomena is part of a complex, incomprehensible web of cause and effect. What is behind this phenomena though? A vacuum can have no phenomena arising within it - no sound no light no air no particles of any kind, but yet there exists this formless, unnameable space - it doesnt vanish - a space that exists without phenomena arising in it. What is this space that can exist independent of phenomena? If we look at the universe as phenomena, it is cause and effect, but if there is something that exists even in the absence of phenomena, is that something not truly what the universe is?
When people say, "It happened for a reason," they are usually looking for it in the wrong place...some idealistic benefit or punishment ordered about by some higher cosmic consciousness (God) with them in mind. As if an eternal eye is concerned with their every move. I don't think so. Although everything does happen for a reason and is discernible as you suggest. The leaves fall from a tree in the Fall because of cause and effect, which is an endless string and provable, and not some unknowable cosmic being willing it so, which is unprovable. Yet still, this endless energy comes from somewhere. I think life (And things) exists because it can exist. I'm more inclined to think of "Energy" as what ultimately runs the universe with cause and effect being the result of this source of energy. Energy is the fuel of the universe...and also exists in us...with plenty of cause and effect...which with enough energy we may can alter. I think Man is not separate from the universe but a part of it. Everything we can see and cannot see, all that is and will ever be in the universe is what we are and will always be. Change we will, but there is no escape. We do know that the universe has a Mind because we are it...a part of the universe with a Mind. Another higher Mind? who really knows? and can prove? One thing I do believe is that no matter what God a person believes in, that God exists in the Minds of Men. It is the only known place God can exist. And that's not the same as saying God does not exist. Government has no enmity, it only exists in the Minds of Men, and totally relies on Men for enforcement. No God or government will ever come after you to make you pay, it will always be another man. And it doesn't much matter if these men come to arrest or kill you in the name of God or in the name of government you are still just as arrested or killed either way. In the Bible story we have two trees, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the tree of life. The tree which bore the knowledge of good and evil came with a warning. It is not always as it seems. How many times have you seen "Bad" happen but in the end you realize it worked for good? And in this Bible story the Tree of Life is protected from Man and his knowledge of good and evil with a sword that turns every way to protect the Tree of Life. I concur, this sword cuts for good, it cuts for evil, it cuts both ways. But always, it cuts to the way of life, good or evil. Life is much more about "Survival" than good or evil. Survival of life first, do what you must, good and evil later maybe...if we have the time. Anyhow, I also wonder what's really going on in the universe. I desire to live in a real world and not some made up one. The universe is expanding, I am a part of the universe and I love spaciousness. And in one form or another we will always be a part of the universe, with consciousness or without. And I once heard that all energy fields fade into consciousness at one point or another. Dream on! We're all a little nuts.
Not necessarily the big bang. I defined the starting point as the start of pure existence, which is incomprehensible on many standards.
Well, im just saying that all information in the universe, anything that there is to know and see exists only after a certain moment, which from scientific anaysis is probably accurate to denote as a "big bang." Before that it is impossible to know what was and how it was or even if anything was, any attempt to explain it is mere speculation.
It is definitely all speculation during the time before the 'big bang'. But we can safely say that there is a point in reality where pure existence started (or you can respond with the infinite argument)
ehh... idk about that big bang. i perfer to beleive that existense is what it is existense. a thing thats all. no such thing as time. i believe.. that everything that Ever happened... has already happened.. is happening now.. an forever will continue to happen.. like your birth and death. two points in somebodys life.. really happens at the same time.. and like i said before i beleive we are all part of a bigger picture... a picture we will never be able to understand until maybe death. and that in a way.. there really is no difference in any of us we are all the same... sort of.
How can one 'safely' say anything, especially when pertaining to matters as far and wide, incomprehensible and still unchartered even by science? What was before pure existence, if pure existence indeed 'started' at some point?
Yeah I'll take the infinite argument. It just seems so...incomprehensible that there was a point where existence started; how could something just appear out of nothing? Because if there was nothing, then there would be absolutely nothing to trigger the start of existence...by nothing I don't mean empty space, a vacuum - I just mean nothing, at all, whatsoever. It kind of got me thinking, if there was nothing, then there would be nothing to actually label that nothingness 'nothing', so it wouldn't technically be nothing. heh and Prone - I really like what you're saying, makes me think man, +rep
I absolutely agree with you. I believe that the universe, in its entirety is just a "bubble" of which there are multiple worlds; worlds bigger than our own. We are merely pawns in a complex "game" (not sure if game is the correct word). I just believe that everything that we do, feel, say, touch ... any form of expression or action is frivolous. There is no meaning to the world, we are a world inside of many other worlds outside of the universe, and we can in no way control it. But, there is a bright side. We all die.
You are right. Something incomprehensible might of happened, and I can't safely define it as anything.