If you don't read this thread, you have no free will.

We humans have no free will, whether you read the thread or not. And this is a question that's been plaguing me for some time, and I think I'll jot dow my ideas and have them scrutinised by you erudite eggheads. Here goes ...

In a system of finite probabilities, all parts of the system has only finite possibilities, right? Think about it like this: in video games NPC's have a set selection of behaviours, right? They can only do certain actions, and they have limited responses. We humans are the same, we are set in a pattern; eat, sleep, fuck, smoke. Does it really matter what order we do these things in? If I decided today to smoke before I brush my teeth, something I wouldn't normally do, would that be an act of free will? No it wouldn't, it was simply me trying to form a new pattern of behaviour. We have set all these limitations on ourselves, but even without those limitations we are still undfer the illusion that we have free will.

Now to something Steven Hawking said that rings so true; what other organisms have free will? Is it only complex organisms that have free will, or could it be only mammals? Or could it only be modern humans? When did we evolve to have free will? Think about it like this: if horses could draw they'd draw the God's as horses; do you see what I'm trying to say here? We like to think we're in control, but we are governed by needs and wants, by chemical processes ( hungry, must eat; horny must fuck) and we are limited by natural (laws of physics) and human made laws (criminal law and shit like that) - both personal (the image we like to project of ourselves) and objectively held truths (socially appropriate behaviour).

If our behavior is so restricted then how could we have free will? Did we evolve to have free will? What other organisms have free will?

Free will is not something most humans have, but that doesn't mean it isn't there to be found. For in order to have free will, certain conditions must first be met. A rising out of the old consciousness into something new, a letting go of the perceptions that keep you enslaved to your old habits, petty wants, fears and desires.

Find your way out of these, and you will find your way towards free will.

Edited by esseff, 03 September 2012 - 02:31 PM.

Free will doesn't exist. Free will is a fantasy. If Free will were true, I would be exploring the depths of space.

The universe is inherently deterministic, unless there exists something which is greater than the sum of it's parts. Even then there's no reason that alone should mean the universe wouldn't be deterministic.

Free will is not something most humans have, but that doesn't mean it isn't there to be found. For in order to have free will, certain conditions must first be met. A rising out of the old consciousness into something new, a letting go of the perceptions that keep you enslaved to your old habits, petty wants, fears and desires.

Find your way out of these, and you will find your way towards free will.

So you believe in the existence of free will. Would you elaborate on why you think we have free will?

So you believe in the existence of free will. Would you elaborate on why you think we have free will?

I made no claims about any WE having anything. I believe I was clear in my previous post.

the question is whether you are even capable of exercising a free will or if you are trapped in repetition, conditioning, and the comfort zone of living within society - one way or the other. As long as you are the sum of your memories, ideas and theories (which are more often than not not even yours) the question of free will is a moot point because you yourself are not free enough from your lower and conditioned self to exercise it.

There are hundreds of variables for every thought process.

but if God wants you somewhere at some point he has a million ways to get you there.

Ultimately you're free to make choices but God decides the possible results.

Life isn't a test essay, it's multiple choice.

Haha oh god, I had to write a 10 page paper on free will for metaphysics.

It basically boils down to this in modern philosophy, if you believe in a higher being (aka God), there is and can NEVER be a possibility of free will.

If you don't believe in any such being or entity, than there is a POSSIBILITY of free will, depending on your other affiliations in the metaphysical world. (So much categorizing, so much 50/50 nonsense, philosophy can never be enjoyed if you are a person of absolutes and black and whites).

Seriously, in 10 pages I had to break those two down. I can keep going if anyone wants...

Free will doesn't exist. Free will is a fantasy. If Free will were true, I would be exploring the depths of space.

What have you done to achieve your goal/want of exploring deep space? Have you tried joining NASA's or other space programs? Have you become an aerospace engineer?

It basically boils down to this in modern philosophy, if you believe in a higher being (aka God), there is and can NEVER be a possibility of free will.

Only if you see god as a higher being perhaps. If you see god as all there is without clouding things with some mental thought form, then the only limitation is the one you put on it yourself.

There may be a path we all have to walk at first, because we're only children, but at some point along the way, things change, we finally grow up and begin to walk where we weren't able to go before, and in a way we never realised was open to us. Until then, it may seem as if the idea isn't real, but that's just the way it will seem.

EDIT:

Having said that, in accepting that you aren't walking this path by yourself, your higher self, which is what makes the connection between you and ALL THAT IS, is always guiding you towards where you need to go and what you need to experience. So on that level, you could say that you, the ego, don't have free will, but YOU the Soul do.

Edited by esseff, 04 September 2012 - 08:09 PM.

I made no claims about any WE having anything. I believe I was clear in my previous post.

What? This directly contradicts what you previously posted.

Free will is not something most humans have, but that doesn't mean it isn't there to be found.

It would just be cool if you could expand on your views about free will.

What? This directly contradicts what you previously posted.

I said most people DO NOT have free will.

It would just be cool if you could expand on your views about free will.

See my post before this one.

the question is whether you are even capable of exercising a free will or if you are trapped in repetition, conditioning, and the comfort zone of living within society - one way or the other. As long as you are the sum of your memories, ideas and theories (which are more often than not not even yours) the question of free will is a moot point because you yourself are not free enough from your lower and conditioned self to exercise it.

So you're saying no one has free will, because we are shaped by our pasts - "sum of our memories" and we're educated - "learn theories from others." To me that makes no sense, because if we weren't the sum of our memories then what would we be? What does that even mean? When has anyone come up with anything orignal? Every idea is a derivitive of some other idea. Can you possibly clarify what you meant in your post?

I said most people DO NOT have free wil.

Yes, you did, but by saying that you implied that some people do have free will. And to be fair you went on to explain that anyone can gain free will, in your first post. All I was trying to get was you to have you explain your theory.

I implied that people can have free will, not that they do.

In order to experience free will in your life, you have to first find god (nothing religious or beardy) and bring this into your life fully. This can only happen when you find your way into the space known as the present, as it is only in the present that reality becomes clear to you.

Free will only becomes possible when you act out of this presence, because when you're able to do so, the rules that seemed to inhibit you from ever doing so before, no longer affect you anymore.

This is not something you can imagine, as it's not something that can be imagined, only experienced. So until you do, there is no real free will, for all the reasons that have already been mentioned.

Just because you have some form of religious belief doesn't mean you have surpassed all your human needs, wants, desires and impulses. You will still be the same person, the only difference would be that you would consciously moderate your behaviour to be fitting of whatever religion or spiritual beliefs you subscribe to. In essence if you were a hothead before "finding your free will" and you were likely to punch someone who exasperated you, and you were to subscribe to certain beliefs that was against such outbursts, then from time to time you would still get these impulses, but you would make a conscious effort to suppress this in an attempt to carve out a new pattern of behaviour, right? See you wouldn't have acquired free will, but only the illusion thereof, seeing as you assume that free will is obtained when you become spiritually enlightened.

Free will is just a rationalisation we use, because we can't explain our own actions. We don't know why we do half of the things we do, and because we can't handle uncertainty we use free will to explain this behaviour to ourselves. We constantly fool ourselves into a lot of things; it's like the introspection illusion.

if i had to read this thread to prove my free will, i have no free will.
thats all im here to say.

you have choice which is good enough.

its very likely there is a being that is far more advanced than you which thinks you are very predictable. in the same way you can predict animal behavior and to some extent you are able to look at human body language and predict thoughts and intentions, and that will lead to the possibility you could predict their actions after that.

but you look at an animal and another human being as if they have choice right?
but in reality they are making decisions based on a lifetime of acquired information and they also act based on the context they are in.
this means their subconscious is making its decision and giving it to their conscious.

but to you and for everyone else you are making the choice and acting based on how 'you' feel would be best in the situation.

to me the question is, would you like to worry and regret something that happened? or would you like to look at the bright side and be glad it did?

personally, i try to realize good and bad are all about perspective. and trust that what happens is best for me, because you can learn from the past and grow from your mistakes. so your problems could quite possibly be seen as a blessing

sorry if that wasnt very coherent. im :Dhigh?

Edited by Psilocybeen, 05 September 2012 - 02:12 AM.