Vote against gay marriage ban!!

[naku06]

Every human being makes choices, weither they are aware of them or not. Doesnt mean the desision didnt happen. If you are gay, you choice that life style. Nothing to be ashamed or hide from(at least there shouldnt be). But, the underlining fact is all humans are the same. Goverment is just rules, imposed by those with power. Some rules are logical: the punishment for taking anothers life, which i find can be one of the most selfish things possible to do. Some illogical: bans on subsistances, were everyone should have the right to consume as they please.

With this christian capitalist goverment view in place in the states right now, the people in power want to remain in power and inforce their views on the rest of the population. How do so? they want thier "enimies" poor, keeping them away from cuts in taxes and benafits. A large populous in big buisiness are of christian belief, they believe a marriage is between a man and women, for those two are needed to bare a child and continue the human race. wich is a decent fundemental idea, but, soon as money becomes a part of it all, its starts to tranceform into fascism.

Of course there are those that dont have power, and are just strong believing christians, they appose for the sub-jective statment from above. They will support those in power. The saying is true: "power lies in numbers."

Slowly power driven people are loosing thier grips. Example, it was once thought that gays had a mental disease, some still believe this.

Personal i think that we a heading to the next phase of a two phase cycle. think of ancient rome, excepted and encouraged back then. Then belief spread that it wasnt right. Now we are just going back to excepting it. Maybe in a hundered years we'll get back to fighting over it again. pointless i say, just live and let live.

thanks for reading my rant.

naku06

[stonerbarbie]

Originally Posted by naku06

Every human being makes choices, weither they are aware of them or not. Doesnt mean the desision didnt happen. If you are gay, you choice that life style. Nothing to be ashamed or hide from(at least there shouldnt be). But, the underlining fact is all humans are the same.

are you gay? i have never met a gay person who said it was his/her choice. why would anyone ever consciously choose the more difficult path? i know i didn't. until i was 18, i forced myself to act straight - and it just felt so awkward, like fitting a square peg in a round hole. in sense, at that time i "chose" to be straight, but my actions did not match my cognition. since i was a child i have just always been attracted to females, you mean to tell me i made that choice as a kid? i don't know why i was born gay, i'll never know, but what i do know is that i did not choose my lifestyle. hell, if i could, i'd have chosen to be straight for SURE - it's just more advantageous - financially, professionally, and often socially. but, i was dealt this hand and so i just have to make the best of it, and after many years of feeling hopeless i am finally comfortable with who i am.

[naku06]

this goes back to my blank slate theory posted earlier in this thread. believe what you will, but i still believe all minds are blank before learning what something is.

edit: maybe its your early curiousities they play a part in this self identity. i dont know, everyone is different and come to differnt conclusions to problems for themselves. like i said above, live and let live.

[stonerbarbie]

Originally Posted by naku06

this goes back to my blank slate theory posted earlier in this thread. believe what you will, but i still believe all minds are blank before learning what something is.

edit: maybe its your ealy curiousities they play a part this self identity. i dont know, everyone is different and come to differnt conclusions to problems for themselves. like i said above, live and let live.

you didn't answer my question - are you gay? i don't see how you can make the very general statement - "you chose to be gay" - without knowing what being gay feels like.

i don't think sexuality is a learned behavior at all, because if it was, then i would have been conditioned to be straight by association. i didn't know any gay people growing up.. that's what made it so difficult. i think one's sexuality is a trait embedded in genetic code, maybe a warped gene or something, who knows? just like other traits, we can't choose our sexuality. do you mean i chose to be left-handed?

[naku06]

let me re-phrase. i have the power to control my ownself, im doing what i want. im not gay or straight. i dont have to choose, "my" kind arent in the spot light at the moment. as long as you think you're gay, you will be gay. this goes the same for straight. we all self identify, it's the weakness of mind. its the one factor that doesnt permit change, it makes us happy. we all want to belong, but saying that you had a harder time isnt a justification, we can all have had a hard childhood. if you want to fall back on a gene, go right ahead. but i honestly dont think its any farther than you thinking you are gay, sorry, but i dont think you're anymore different or unique than the rest of us.

i dont have to be gay to analyze it. ive been asked this before, and they just blow my opinion off becuase they cant see outside themselves. all i have to do is understand were you come from. pretending is a powerful tool, some people forget about when they are young.

we all want to belong, but, if we loose our self identity we all of sudden panic and try to find ways to make us: "me."

humans all do it every day: "what am i? why am i?"
every reaction based around two questions...this is why sexuality sickens me and i choose not to be apart of it. i live by, the mind tells the body what to do, not the other way around.

yes, i will agree with you on this, sexuality is a very deep psychological fundemental, it creates huge differences in the human reaction. but thats just what we are told to believe.
i retire from this thread, i think, again.
its been fun stonerbarbie, odviously no hard feelings, but all im doing now is beating a dead horse.

edit: and the left hand thing...maybe you learned to use one hand better as a child? and it stuck...

Is left-handedness genetic?
One study conducted in 1998 by researchers at James McDevitt University, Oklahoma, revealed that when both parents are left-handed, there is only a 26% chance of their child being left-handed (Only 10% of the human population are left-handed), an indication that genetics may not play the prominent role once thought in determining handedness. Thus, it is clear that genetics is not the only cause. Handedness must also be influenced by some of the other theories presented here.

provided from wikipedia( left-handed). your arguement doesnt work.

[IGotTheCottons]

Originally Posted by BabyToker

Vote against the civil union ban. Vote for marriage.

I don't have time to read this thread ATM... Just wanted to throw in my $0.02...

I'm all for the ammendment (sp?) to ban gay marriage. I'm not trying to offend anyone here or anything, nor am I dowing gay people (I have SEVERAL gay friends and a gay cousin, all of which I care deeply about)... I just feel that a marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. Again, those are MY personal beliefs, so don't start flaming me for having an opinion that may be different than your own (as I'm not flaming anyone who's opinion is different than mine).

So yeah... I'm all for the ban. Sorry again if that's offensive to anyone.

[seven]

Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

I'm all for the ammendment (sp?) to ban gay marriage. ... I just feel that a marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman.

Simple question - how is it going to impact your life at all if gay marriage becomes legal? Your gay friends and cousin would finally share the same rights and benefits from marriage that you would. Who are you, as a heterosexual, to deny them these priveleges? What argument can you possibly make for disallowing other human beings from enjoying the same freedoms you do? Banning gay marriage, in my opinion, would be no different from banning a man and woman with the same eye color to marry each other, and I'm pretty confident very few people would vote for that. Why? Because it doesn't make sense. It isn't fair. It goes against the principles of equality that we, as a country, have worked so hard to establish. It saddens me that some people have such a hard time viewing the situation in this way.

[Palehorse22]

The gay marriage ammendment is just a political tactic for politicians to get votes...i live in a place where the blue laws prevent me from buying a beer on sunday and the stores can't sell anything but food before 1:30 on sunday all because the "religious people" impose their values on everyone else...they surly won't allow gay marriage..live and let live i say...I am not gay but I really don't care if gay people get married...I really don't care what they do as long as it doesn't affect me..that goes for everyone else....I just wish they would get rid of the blue laws....

[TheHempress]

Not to be totally off-topic, but I hate blue laws too. Not all of us go to church on Sunday, people!

[sheeps101]

Word, Blue Laws suck so much, by me it means that no store can be open unless it sells only food products. So annoying.

But, to be on topic. I do not support Same Sex Marriage. I think that marriage is between a man and a woman and should remain that way. However, I do think that same sex couples should have all the rights as traditional couples and thus should be able to have civil unions that allow them to gain these rights.

[infiniteawesome]

Originally Posted by naku06

let me re-phrase. i have the power to control my ownself, im doing what i want. im not gay or straight. i dont have to choose, "my" kind arent in the spot light at the moment. as long as you think you're gay, you will be gay. this goes the same for straight. we all self identify, it's the weakness of mind. its the one factor that doesnt permit change, it makes us happy. we all want to belong, but saying that you had a harder time isnt a justification, we can all have had a hard childhood. if you want to fall back on a gene, go right ahead. but i honestly dont think its any farther than you thinking you are gay, sorry, but i dont think you're anymore different or unique than the rest of us.

I think the major issue with this argument is simply the difference between "free will" and "choice." It is of my opinion that there is a MAJOR difference that people seem to overlook when using the terms interchangably. Your "free will" imo, is the choices you make "naturally" over time due to the way you were brought up. Thusly, you DO choose, in a way, to be homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual. I don't necessarily buy the whole "genetic" argument because that would mean that homosexuality could possibly be hereditary, but evidence seems to be to the contrary so far.

When a person who has been brought up under conditions that have somehow influenced them (whether directly or indirectly or BOTH) to be homosexual, but they CHOOSE to be heterosexual, their "free will," as it were, contradicts their current choice in the present. It is very hard to consciously change yourself, it IS possible, but VERY VERY difficult imo.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern420

Life is too short to worry about other people. The main thing is that you, yourself are happy. Let everyone do their own thing

Believe it or not there IS one problem with this theory and that is simply that if we spend our entire lives worrying about our own shit, the rest of the world will fall apart. The U.S. has flourished because as a nation we have continually exploited other nations to benefit ourselves. After we're born as Americans, we assume no responsability for this because we feel it was our ancestors' faults and thusly we should simply enjoy our life. I feel that this is flawed thinking. People who feel strongly enough about the problems of other people, be it because they are being persecuted for smoking marijuana, being homosexual, being black, or living in a third world country, should definately DO something about it in however would make them feel more at ease. For them, THAT's doing "their own thing."

Originally Posted by faeryamos

when you love someone and want to spend the rest of your life with them, you should be able to consumate the love like everyone else does

Yes, though I believe that the idea of marriage is a farse that has been propogated for far too long. The idea of being "in a relationship" is no more than the desire to never leave another person whatever that reason may be. The idea of "marriage" is simply a comfort zone. The ARGUMENT is whether or not homosexuals should be allowed this state of mind, as well as the social, legal, and economic benefits and ramifications of such an agreement. If they want it, I say go ahead, I'm cool. But personally I don't think anyone SHOULD get married because that state of mind isn't real. Love is real, not marriage. The proof of its existence is only within your mind, not in words or in paper or even in the other person's eyes or heart.

As for my own conclusions about this, here's my more than two cents concerning the issue:

Homosexuality to me, is just as much a choice as anything else, BUT it is a choice that has been developed over time. This doesn't mean you can CONTROL whether or not your son or daughter ends up being a homosexual, that's like saying I'm going to make sure my son or daughter ends up being a doctor or a lawyer. They simply find what they love to do and whom they love in life and that's that. You can't even control whether or not your son or daughter ends up being mentally stable, happy, sad, etc. You can only give them the best chance they have of being HAPPY. That's it really, you can't tell them to be happy AND heterosexual, it just doesn't work. You can't even set up the right conditions for your son or daughter to be heterosexual because society has already proven that there is NO proven method to making sure that everyone in society ends up being heterosexual. Just look at all the movies and drama that romanticize heterosexual relationships, they haven't influenced the number of people who still end up being homosexual, they simply influence the number of people who THINK their heterosexual. This doesn't mean that homosexuality is genetic or hereditary, but it definately shows that society, under all and any circumstances, produces a certain amount of heterosexual and homosexual people.

THUSLY, those of you who worry about the arise of homosexuality as a threat to the continuation of the human race, I really wouldn't. People will keep on propogating and even though some portion may not produce children, that doesn't mean they don't have the right to be happy however they wish to be.

Those of you who are simply "against" homosexuality seem to have trouble defining exactly what it is you are against. You say it isn't natural and yet you can't even define what "natural" is. Now I'm sure some of you will take this and post whatever conjured up definition you have about what you BELIEVE to be natural, but that doesn't define natural. NATURAL, again, is a state of mind, an opinion, a BELIEF. If I say that man NATURALLY came to all the technological achievments in this day and age, who's to say man DIDN'T come up with these ideas naturally, that he didn't pick up that hammer, that computer, that wrench and start building something he WANTED or someone else WANTED NATURALLY. By MY definition, EVERYTHING is natural. I'm not saying I'm right, what I'm saying is that there's NO right answer to what is NATURAL, and thusly it is not your PLACE to put judgment on other people simply because you believe that what they do isn't "natural," because when you REALLY sit down and think about, and I mean really THINK, you realize that everything in your mind is a farse and you can't make judgments on anyone else but yourself. To do so is something that comes to most people by simple fact that they exist and other people exist, but to be TRULY intellectual, I feel, means that you set aside your BELIEFS in the interest of one of two things:

1. The continuation of the human race.
OR
2. The destruction of the human race.

Devote yourself to one in its entirety and you find yourself without a sense of self, and this is what it means to be BEYOND your skepticism about homosexuality, about the existence of God, or simply whether or not you exist. To me, to be in that constant state of knowledge without judgment means that you have no sense of self save for the simple knowledge that you exist. And to me, that's enlightenment and that's what we should all be after. I don't believe in God, I believe in man becoming LIKE God.

[Switch]

The point of debate is not to change someone else's mind- it's to expand your own.

Nonetheless- to make the point from a theistic but non religious point of view (I.E. mine).

I don't think gay marriage is wrong in any way, shape or form. Say God was against it, though. Don't you think we need to sort out all the War, the Fammine, the suffering.... before we start to worry whether two gay people are married or not? Priorities!

I've always found it a rediculous idea that a human baing can understand the nature of GOD (you know that thing which is supposed to be infinate and more powerful than anything there is) and say- s/he thinks this s/he thinks that. That kinda takes the piss out of the whole concept of God, don't you think? But that said- we gotta take our best shot, don't we? Hence we <b>believe</b> but we don't <b>know</b>. This explains the basis of my prime principle: live and let live and fight so that you may be able to let live.

If you do this then you <b>know</b> you haven't hurt anyone who <b>does</b> have all the answers I dunno- I'm stoned and rambling right now- haha.

[sodomizedjello]

about sexuality being a choice....i remember when i was very small and first discovering the special places on my body hahah, i had some behaviors resembling bdsm. this was long before i'd discovered the internet and porn, i had no idea bdsm existed i just did what turned me on. nowadays bdsm is my favorite porn to watch and whatnot because of how turned on i get when i watch it. so no, i don't think being gay is a choice at all, like my bdsm fetish was not a choice. just how my brain works.

[WinstonSmith]

Originally Posted by Eyes

That's not true. You can't choose to be dyslexic. AND BEING HOMOSEXUAL IS IN THE GENETICS O.O

So true...

This thread was long, so I just kinda skimmed through it...I apologize if I am just repeating someone else, but I'm lazy .

First of all, being gay is NOT a choice, it IS genetic. If anyone doesn't believe me, ask yourself this; did you ever decide wether you wanted to like people of the same sex, or the opposite sex? No, probably not, it's just whatever you're drawn to based on your genetics. No one is deciding to be gay, and get harassed, and sleeping with people they're not attracted to just to piss jesus off (this was obviously directed towards the christian conservatives, but I dont think there are too many of those here...).

Second...I am so sick and tired of these right wing talking heads (people like Bill O'reilly) who think gay people should have to justify people marrying snakes over in India, that is TOTALLY insane. First of all, that's crossing species, which is just wrong, and second, the snake did not choose to marry someone, it can't do that, so your arguement does not work.

Third, the religious thing. "Gay people can't get married because marriage is a religious thing". BULLSHIT!..well, not really...it is supposed to be a religious thing, but when is the last time you heard of two atheists not being allowed to marry? Exactly.

[Shadowstalker]

i believe that homosexuality is indeed genetic. however i do not think that it should be accepted. i view it as(this is strictly an analogy) something like an infection. its like a festering infection that you acknowledge is there. though you know its there, youre not gonna help it grow and spread. the way things are going, america is simply facilitating the spread and acceptance of homosexuality. from a theological perspective, i believe it is wrong. it is simply not natural. if god intended man to be with man or woman to be with woman, he wouldnt have given us such blatant and obvious signs to the contrary. homosexuals cannot reproduce simply because of natural human anatomy. theres no fine line about that. all in all i think that homosexuality is bad and its definitely not something we should condone. in fact we should shun it for hopes that it would remain at a minimum.