Make your own Soil Mix!

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by clos3tgrow3r, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. #1 clos3tgrow3r, Feb 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2010
    Hello GC :wave: and welcome to my thread all on organic soils!

    First and foremost I would like to make it clear to everyone that I am by NO means an expert, I have simply accumulated info from google and GC and have summarized it here. You should take any advice I give here with a grain of salt. Finally, this thread is meant to be a only a practical guide or information source for what different types of amendments and additives help your soils. Although there is plenty information on advanced techniques provided by others, in a variety of topics too(LD and GDaddy mostly).

    I am new to the indoor cannabis scene but not to the basics of gardening and must say I am very attracted to the power of a good soil mix. I see the appeal that hydro and aero have but at the moment it is too large of a leap to take. I like soil, and I love the feel that plants living in a natural medium give. Let me quickly say that I have nothing against aero or hydro; these methods increase productivity and are definitely modernizing all of horticulture but in my gut, I know that for someone who is focused on the quality of a couple plants rather than the harvest of many, organic soils are the way to go.

    This thread is for anyone who wants to/does make hisher own soil mix. Please feel free to share your own recipes and all the different types of amendments you use. The earth is full of natural goodies, the more the merrier.
     
  2. #2 clos3tgrow3r, Feb 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2010
    I have noticed that most of the threads on these forums regarding plant nutrition are based on feeding a plant after it has already been planted. From an outdoor gardeners perspective I must ask why? When starting a garden you would consider yourself very lucky to have land that was aerated, light, and fertile, no? Indoor growers have the luxury to make their soils as fertile and hospitable as they want, possibly even outdoing mother nature herself? Regardless, why so much talk about feeding instead of preparing the base?
     
  3. #3 clos3tgrow3r, Feb 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2010
    OK so before you make your mix you need a plan and this will help you figure out what makes good soil. Here are some important fundamentals. READ:D

    Now even before you start learning about soil you must understand the concept of limiting factors because your soil is IMO the first and most important one. Basically the chain (your plant) can only be as strong as the weakest link (factors like light quality and quantity, water, space, ventilation, root medium, ect) right? Now I consider soil the most important "link" in the "chain" because a plant is built from the ground up. Yes the magic happens above ground but all of that is dependent on the roots not vice versa. By making the best soil on earth you start your grow out with the first link strong as shit which ='s a grow that actually has the potential to reach full potential. After that lights, ventilation and all the other links connect to your soil to create the full chain. DONT start out with a mediocre first link and then kill yourself over adding strong links later.

    OK now lets move onto the meat of this thread...

    (1) Soil Density: Plants love light, airy soils. These soils require minimal effort for roots to travel through meaning rapid root growth, which in turn fuels healthy and fast growth above ground. Simply adding perlite or vermiculite will lighten up any mix. (I use a 3 parts perlite/vermiculite combo to 10 parts soil ratio)

    (2) Aeration: In order to function roots need O2. Having a light, fluffy mix^ will help ensure adequate aeration but drainage is the key. This means putting down a thick layer of rocks at the bottom of your pot to allow water to run straight through and avoid getting trapped by soil at the bottom (lava rocks or hydroton works well for this). The more aerated the pot the healthier the roots and the faster/stronger/better your plant. Credit for this goes to smoove: you can lay a pvc pipe vertically through your pot to allow air to passively flow to the bottom. Also burrying an airstone or 2 within your soil would be a form of active aeration that is rarely heard of but nevertheless probably worth the effort.

    (3) Nutritional Value: Here is a list of some additives that you can use to create a variety of soils for a variety of uses. This is by no means an exhaustive list.

    Nitrogen (N)
    Fish Meal High in Nitrogen. Typical blood meal is derived from the run off blood at slaughterhouses, fish meal is an alternative.
    Blood Meal One of the most potent nitrogen sources for an organic mix, short term.
    Crab Shell Meal Good source of slow release N and P. It is also a chitin source. Chitin provides carbon and nitrogen for the microorganisms in your soil.
    Cottonseed Meal Great slow release nitrogen source. It is also a soil acidifier, you should use lime with meal to prevent very acidic soil. Lime to Meal pH neutralization ratio = 1:10.
    Guano High in Nitrogen and Phosphorus, great for both veg and flower. Short term however condensed pellets will give a long term affect.

    Phosphorus (P)
    Bone Meal High in Phosphorus, should be used in a flowering mix. Is a slow release source and absorption depends on the health of your microherd.
    Fish Bone Meal High in Phosphorus. Typical bone meal is made from the bones of meat cows and can contain unwanted materials. Fish bone meal is an alternative.
    Seaweed Good source of Potassium, and Phosphorous along with trace elements and naturally occuring growth hormones (Auxins).
    Greensand Used as Phosphorous source but supplemental P is recommended, it also supplies soil with micronutrients (Fe mainly). Is also a water softener and can help purify your water. Slightly aerates soil as well.
    Rock Phosphate High in Phosphorous, should be used for flowering
    Guano See N

    Potassium (K)
    Kelp Meal High in Potassium
    Seaweed See P

    Micro & General
    Alfalfa Meal A great all around additive usually close to a 3-1-2 ratio and rich in water soluble micronutrients. Also a source of triacontanol which is a proven growth stimulant (supposedly by improving photosynthesis rates). Because alfalfa meal is extremely water soluble its affects are short term; though still great as a soil additive it is really perfect for teas and top dressings.
    Worm Castings High in micro nutrients, and an OK source of Nitrogen
    Humic Acid Vehicle for humates or humus which is basically broken down biomatter. It is a clay like substance that serves as a chelating agent. It absorbs cations in the soil that would otherwize be leached, basically acting as a elemental reservour for your plants. Humus is very good to have, it promotes fast growing, healthy plants and should be added to every mix if possible.
    Clays Also a chelating agent, helping to prevent the leaching of cations in your soil
    Dolomite Lime High in calcium and serves as a natural pH buffer. Should be added to every mix

    Lighteners
    Perlite No nutritional value, but lightens the soil composition and aids root growth. Should be added to every mix
    Vermiculite same as perlite

    This is a growing list so please feel free to add :)

    (4) CeC or Cation Exchange Capacity: Now measuring CeC is not something a beginner (like myself) should even worry about, it is the principle that should be understood.

    We all know that plants require certain elements but how do they extract them from their soil? As an example lets look at Calcium. If you add bone meal or crab shell meal you are introducing a calcium source to your soil mix. The problem is that over time and after repetitive waterings the cation Ca++ (calcium missing 2 electrons) is "leached" from the soil; dissolved in water it will slowly make its way down and out of your pot--obviously this is no good. The way to solve this problem is by introducing a "magnet" for the cation to stick to. Because the Calcium cation is missing two electrons it has an overall charge of 2+ and will therefore be attracted to anything that has a net negative charge. Both clay and humus have a net negative charge...from this point on it is pretty much self explanatory. Atoms with a positive charge, be it Hydrogen (which is essentially your pH), Magnesium, Copper, Potassium, will be attracted and stick to lumps of clay or humus in your soil instead of ending up in your runoff.

    Plants have evolved a very elegant and intelligent way to tap into these "reservoirs". By pumping out Hydrogen cations (H+) from their roots they saturate the clay or humus with positive charges until the negativity of the substrate has been neutralized, thereby loosening the bond between the clay and the other cations, enough so to free them up for absorption!

    An important point of CeC is that the more numerous the negative substrates are the more cations you will need to supply to saturate your soil with.

    This is a good link provided by LD on CeC Understanding CEC, Buffer soil pH, Percent Saturation

    General Stuff
    This is a great site: Soil Foodweb Thanks for the link gdaddy
    and heres another
    Plants, Mycorrhizal Fungi and Endobacteria: a Dialog Among Cells and Genomes -- Bonfante 204 (2): 215 -- The Biological Bulletin

    Go and buy a book called Teeming with Microbes, if you read it;) you wont regret it:D
     
  4. I was considering:

    Organic Mushroom Compost
    +Composted Cow Manure
    +Compsted Kelp
    +Earthworm Castings

    Perlite & Vermiculite

    Humic Acid

    Cottonseed Meal
    Alfalfa Seed Meal
    Kelp Meal
    Feather Meal
    Fishbone Meal

    Bat Guano

    Dolomite Lime

    Mycorrhizae

    Sphagnum Moss
    Coco Fiber

    Greensand

    I'm still playing around with it. Meant to be the vegative soil for when i transplant from seedling trays. The substances that aren't line seperated are mixtures of the two+.
     
  5. Ok so I have a question I curently use bat poo for my nutes. I have been considering bone and blood meal as a replacement. What are the pros and cons of bat poo vs meals as nute sorce for my soil?
     
  6. #6 clos3tgrow3r, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2010
    Sounds great gdaddy! Im sure your plants will love it. How much of each amendment are you tentatively planning on adding? Also if this is for a vegetative mix I would like to recommend peruvian seabird guano, its another, really good nitrogen source.

    I want to bring to everyones attention that the process of mining caves for bat guano stresses bats into infertility dramatically reducing their populations. It also kills many different types of invertebrates and fungi that feed off of the guano. Seabird Guano is practically the same thing and most importantly is ecologically friendly.

    IMO the more diverse your mix the better off your plants will be. Every amendment has its pros and cons and so its all about coming up with a mixture that supports your plants for your purposes. I would say keep a type of guano (bat or seabird); add other goodies.

    Guanos are typically high in Nitrates and Phosphoric acid, both of which are easily broken down in the presence of water. They also contain different types of acids (carbonic, uric, and oxalic) that reduce the pH of your soil, and though im not certain of this, they may have a marginal role in preventing pest infestations in your soil. Because Phosphoric acid and nitrates dissolve easily in water, guano is typically a short term fertilizer although the condensed pellets will give it a long term affect.

    Bone Mealis literally ground up bones and so it is a great natural source of both calcium and phosphorus. These elements are preserved within the ground up bone so it is a long term fertilizer that slowly leaches BUT because of this you must ensure that your soil is bacteria rich because the nutrients locked in the bone can only be released to your plants by microorganisms. Because of this, nutrient absorption can be sporadic, spiking when bacteria populations thrive and shutting down if they die off.

    Blood meal is literally dried blood and is one of the most potent natural nitrogen sources. It is easily dissolved in water and so is a good short term fertilizer. Be careful with this stuff, it is powerful and can burn your plants.

    I hope the info has cleared some stuff up for you,
    Good Luck with your mix
     
  7. Well I made a test soil to see how my strains adjust to the new soil... I had them in miracle gro and needless to say i got nute burned,,, but anyways all of my organics hadn't come in yet but I had enough to make a basic recipe...
    My tester recipe:
    45% Composted Cow Manure
    15% Yard Soil
    10% Creek Silt from the banks of the creek behind my house
    10% Perlite and Vermiculite mix
    10% sphagnum moss
    10% *70/30 ratio Bloodmeal (N) and Bonemeal (P),* Rock Phosphate, Kelp Meal, Crab Shell Meal

    * I then flushed the contents of this batch with a 2 gallon dose of Creek Water mixed with 2 tbsp Fish Hydrosylate & Kelp extract mix and 1 Tbsp Unsulphured Mollasses...

    My Real recipe (and I'm still tossing it around) The ingredients listed in this formula were only not added to the begining because I didn't have these items yet...
    35% Mushroom Compost
    25% Cow Manure
    15% Earthworm Castings
    10% Vermiculite/Perlite 50/50
    10% Coco Fiber/Sphagnum Moss mix ( I like sphagnums acidity)
    5% Creek Silt from creek bank and possibly...
     
  8. #8 gdaddypurp21, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2010
    yard soil

    To that I will add Equal parts (1 cup per 5 gallon) Alfalfa seed meal, cottonseed meal, kelp meal, Crab shell Meal, Neem Seed Meal, Fishbone Meal, Feathermeal; then 2 tbsp mycorrhizae, 2 Cups Artic Humus, 1/4 cup (N) Bat Guano (already ordered guano sorry no PSB) and 1/8 cup High (P) bat guano, 1/8 cup Azomite trace minerals, 1 cup of humates granular (to help coco and moss), Rockphosphate, and Greensand

    Then I'll flush soil with 2 gallons of water with 2 tbsp Fish Hydrosylate & Kelp Extract, plus 1 tbsp unsulphured mollassess.

    The tea recipe is just a pre transplant flush.

    In the case of transplant I would dust the roots with mychorrizae (1 tsp) before transplant, instead of applying it to the soil...

    Again this is just a formula i've been tossing around, and it's only for transplant/vegetation...
     
  9. The second formula is more balanced in NPK aside from a spike in N from the bat guano. This is because, after transplant I usually wait until the second or third watering (depends on look of the plant) to add a composted tea. By doing this, I'm allowing ample time for root adjustment and nutrient balance between the seedling soil and the newer soil. I do this same thing come flowering time to, this allows the plants to adjust to the light change and sometimes I transplant again at flower time if I don't have my veg plants in bigger pots, so it also allows transition for that transplant too. So when I do use my tea, I usually base the mix of the look of the plant. I'm planning this ACT to be:

    Earthworm Castings
    (N) Bat Guano
    Kelp Meal
    Cottonseed Meal
    Fish Hydrosylate & Kelp Extract
    Creek Water
     
  10. Damn that sounds like one hell of a mix/process. Thanks for the great info man, thats the type of shit I wanted to hear. +rep:hello:
     
  11. gdaddypurp21

    You have a good recipe, IMHO. The one thing that I might suggest is that to the extent possible you want to use organic non-GMO varieties (especially the alfalfa meal).

    RE: Cottonseed Meal

    Because this plant is not grown for food (per se), you may want to avoid using cottonseed meal because of the huge amount of pesticides and insecticides (yep - there is a difference) that are applied during the growing season. If you can find organic cottonseed meal then you're good to go.

    Just a thought.

    LD
     
  12. I get all my organics through the same place. I do seasonal vegetables (I have a few post floating around that may deem me as a novice gardener but I'm not) :: I get my years worth of organics come tax time and thus is why I didn't have organics to use for my first cannabis grow and used MG organics (never used a commercial soil which is why I had nute burn) there to clarify that.... anyways all my meals are organic and clean, so rarely only when I must restock through local sources do I come across any ingredients for my soil that would off-balance my microherd or cause infestation... Thank you for the tips tho lumper and it should have been information I posted here but I type off the top of my head (not litterally mind you) and I forget things so +rep (if i can figure it out) to you for adding that valuable bit...
     
  13. gdaddypurp21

    A couple of things that I add to my 'seed meal mix' that you may find interesting to look into are neem seed meal (aka neem seed cake) which is the residue after the neem seed oil is pressed. The other thing that I add is crab meal for its chitlin content. (Here's a link to a USDA paper on crab meal - link)

    Neem seed meal is added to the soil. It's also effective as a tea along with kelp meal tea. You bubble it out for 24 hours and then apply as either a foliar spray application or you can use it as a soil drench (gnats die and go away).

    The main advantage to using neem seed products is that it's not invasive and will not affect you soil's microherd.

    HTH

    LD
     
  14. Ahh the great advice continues, I believe I have neem seed meal on order and on the way and if Crab meal wasn't mentioned in the list of ingredients above it should be there cause I used it in my tester soil and plan on using it in the final mix.
     
  15. #15 gdaddypurp21, Feb 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2010
    a few of the things I also toss in the mix every now and then for either nutes or structure is... Humus Granulite, Rock Phosphate, Azomite trace minerals, diamoteous earth, Lava rocks(purly for drainage at the bottom of my pots) Dryed Alfalfa grass/hay w/e it is...
    I also have a creek behind my house that connects a lake and some springs so my entire water source comes from there and every now and then if I feel the need I'll throw in some creek sand from the banks of the creek.
     
  16. #16 clos3tgrow3r, Feb 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2010
    Thanks for the input gdaddy and lumperdawg I will add neem seed meal to the list of ingredients.

    lumperdawg, +rep for bringing the genetically modified and nonconsumptive plants issue into light for me and probably for a couple others as well. I understand pesticides are clearly a problem but do you really think that GMO actually cause harm to the microheard? Is it possible organic growers would preferably not use them simply because of 'bad press'? Basically is there an actual chemistry behind why you would not want to use meals derived from GMO yet or does our psychology have something to do with it?
     
  17. clos3tgrow

    I sincerely apologize for bringing a personal 'opinion' to this discussion. The reason that I prefer and only use non-GMO varieties is because I source my alfalfa meal directly from the organic alfalfa growers in Eastern Oregon meaning that I have a good understanding on their growing methods/processes, etc. and to the extent possible I like to support other farmers/horticulturists that are producing products on the cutting-edge of things.

    As long as your seed meal ingredients are grown organically (the pesticide and insecticide paradigm) then you'll be fine.

    One other note - I'm NOT trying to start a fight on the use of bone meal and/or blood meal but it's been my personal experience that organic fish bone meal is a better option than bovine bone meal. Fish meal is what I choose to use over blood meal.

    Again - that's just an opinion and not based on any specific science per se.

    The ol' YMMV deal prevails as always.

    HTH

    LD
     
  18. I too use those alternatives to blood and bone meal and as stated from LD is a matter of opinion, there are scientific pros and cons for each but instead of going into that just choose what you like and then once you've got your organics down then you can start being picky and figuring out why some use option A and others prefer option B.
     
  19. gdaddypurp21

    Here's the seed meal mix that I made up...................
    The 'mineral mix' that I buy is 20% each of Azomite, Canadian Glacial Rock Dust, soft rock phosphate, Green Sand & limestone. The company had this product prilled to reduce the dust factor. The prilled product breaks down in less than 10 minutes in a glass of water if availability is of concern to you.

    HTH

    LD
     
  20. What soil build are you using I.E. Mushroom compost, bark compost, organic forest compost, your own compost, Cow manure, sphagnum etc.. etc..
     

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