CDs vs. LPs

[Floydian]

Originally Posted by eleven357

LOL. everything can be represented in 1's and 0's, even music.

Sure it can.

I never said it couldn't.

But it doesn't come as close to reality as analog.

[eleven357]

Originally Posted by Floydian

Sure it can.

I never said it couldn't.

But it doesn't come as close to reality as analog.

SO reality means distortion? THe only time I want to hear distortion is when the artist is using a distortion pedal.

DO you typically listen to a genre that is distortion intensive? punk rock, death metal , et cetera.

ANother thing I like about CDs is I can burn one in 2 minutes. Do you have the equipment to press vinyl?

[Floydian]

Originally Posted by eleven357

SO reality means distortion? THe only time I want to hear distortion is when the artist is using a distortion pedal.

DO you typically listen to a genre that is distortion intensive? punk rock, death metal , et cetera.

ANother thing I like about CDs is I can burn one in 2 minutes. Do you have the equipment to press vinyl?

First of all, I'm not arguing over convenience's sake. My mother happens to have hundreds of albums that I have access too at any time I want. Some are damn played out, some are near mint, and many have none of the distortion you speak of. Don't need to burn them, just to find them.

Their beauty is worth beholding, over the sounds any CD can produce. Even if I can only get that wonderful brand new sound a few times, maybe more with care, it's well worth it. And even then, anything from there on in is just character to me.

And I listen to mostly anything blue in origin, Zeppelin, Hendrix, Floyd, The Who, etc.

I must say, she had an absolutely mint condition original press of Are You Experienced?... she played it once or twice FOR me when I was younger, and recently let me play it through about 3 times myself. Each time I ever heard it, it was one of the more enjoyable experiences of my life.

I don't think anyone wouldn't take a crack at a chance for that.

[eleven357]

Originally Posted by Floydian

First of all, I'm not arguing over convenience's sake. My mother happens to have hundreds of albums that I have access too at any time I want. Some are damn played out, some are near mint, and have none of the distortion you speak of.

Their beauty is worth beholding, over the sounds any CD can produce. Even if I can only get that wonderful brand new sound a few times, maybe more with care, it's well worth it. And even then, anything from there on in is just character to me.

And I listen to mostly anything blue in origin, Zeppelin, Hendrix, Floyd, The Who, etc.

These sounds that you claim the CDs are lacking is just mere distortion.

But we can sit here and debate back and forth til the end of time. It's all good homie! I can agree to disagree on this.

Great debate dude.

Here are some more flaws with the LP.

The stereo image was not made up of fully discrete Left and Right channels; each channel's signal coming out of the magnetic cartridge contained approximately 20% of the signal from the other channel. The lack of pure channel separation made for a sense of diminished soundstage.

Thin, closely-spaced spiral groove walls that allowed for increased playing time on a 33 rpm microgroove LP led to a tinny pre-echo warning of upcoming loud sounds. The hot tip of the cutting lathe unintentionally transferred some of the subsequent groove wall's impulse signal into the previous groove wall. It was discernable by some listeners throughout certain recordings but a quiet passage followed by a loud sound would allow anyone to hear a faint pre-echo of the loud sound occurring 1.8 seconds ahead of time. This problem could also appear as "post"-echo, with a tinny ghost of the sound arriving 1.8 seconds after its main impulse.

Fidelity steadily dropped as the recording progressed; there was more vinyl per second available for fine reproduction of high frequencies at the large-diameter beginning of the music groove than on the smaller diameter inner grooves closer to the center. The beginning of the music groove on an LP gave 510 mm of vinyl per second traveling past the stylus while the ending of the music groove gave 200–210 mm of vinyl per second—less than half the linear resolution.

Factory problems involving incomplete hot vinyl flow within the stamper could fail to accurately recreate a small section of one side of the groove, a problem called non-fill. It usually appeared on the first song of a side if it was present at all. Non-fill made itself known as a tearing, grating or ripping sound.

Poor vinyl quality control could put bits of foreign material in the path of the stylus, creating a permanent 'pop' or 'tick'.

The user setting the stylus down in the middle of a recording could cut into the groove and create a permanent 'pop' or 'tick'.

Dust or foreign matter collected on the record, making for multiple 'pops' and 'ticks' if not carefully cleaned.

A static electric charge could build up on the surface of the spinning record and discharge into the stylus, making a loud 'pop'. In very dry climates, this could happen several times per minute. Subsequent plays of the same record would not have pops in the same places in the music as the static buildup wasn't tied to variations in the groove.

An off-center stamping applied a slow 0.56 Hz modulation to the playback, affecting pitch due to a greater amount of vinyl per second on one side of the record than the other. It also affected tonality because the stylus is pressed alternately into one groove wall and then the other, making the frequency response change in each channel. This problem is often called "wow", though turntable and motor problems can also cause pitch-only "wow".

Motor problems or belt slippage could cause momentary pitch changes. If these repeated regularly, they could be called "flutter"; if they happened slowly they could be called "wow".

Turntable surface slickness, or the slickness of a stack of LPs could allow the top record to slip, causing momentary lowering of pitch in the playback.

Tracking force of the stylus was not always the same from beginning to end of the groove. Stereo balance could shift as the recording progressed.

Outside electrical interference could be amplified by the magnetic cartridge. Common household wallplate SCR dimmers sharing AC lines could put noise into the playback, as could poorly shielded electronics and strong radio transmitters.

Loud sounds in the environment could be transmitted mechanically from the turntable's sympathetic vibration into the stylus. Heavy footfalls could bounce the needle out of the groove.

Heat could warp the disk, causing pitch and tone problems if minor; tracking problems if major. Badly warped records would be rendered unplayable.

Because of a slight slope in the lead-in groove, it was possible for the stylus to skip ahead several grooves when settling into position at the start of the recording.

The LP was delicate. Any accidental fumbling with the stylus or dropping of the record onto a sharp corner could scratch the record permanently, creating a series of 'ticks' and 'pops' heard at subsequent playback. Heavier accidents could cause the stylus to break through the groove wall as it was playing, creating a permanent skip that would cause the stylus to either skip ahead to the next groove or skip back to the previous groove. A skip going to the previous groove was called a broken record; the same section of 1.8 seconds of LP music would repeat over and over until the stylus was lifted off the record.

The theory that vinyl records can audibly represent lower frequencies that compact discs cannot (making the recording sound "warmer") is largely a myth—according to Red Book specifications, the compact disc has a frequency response of 20 Hz to 22.05 kHz, while the human auditory system is sensitive to frequencies from 20 Hz to a maximum of around 20,000 Hz. This means that any frequencies that a vinyl record can represent that a compact disc cannot would be inaudible and thus completely subliminal. Note that the lower frequency limit of human hearing can vary per person, and that interference caused by sound in the lower inaudible spectrum can still influence audible sound. It's possible that phonograph intermodulation effects from low frequency sources such as rumble and wow could adversely effect audible frequency ranges.

[Komatose]

I tend to prefer vinyls for two reasons. First, I think they give off a "warmer" sound. Second, with a vinyl I tend to listen to the whole album straight through which is better because you discover things that you wouldnt if instead you skipped through the gigs and gigs of cds you download.

[flyhalf87]

dude, subliminal sounds matter. there have been experiments showing that those sounds when played along with regular music can evoke emotions and feelings that don't arise without those sounds

edit:it only shows a correlation because it can never be proven but its a strong correlation

[Floydian]

Originally Posted by flyhalf87

dude, subliminal sounds matter. there have been experiments showing that those sounds when played along with regular music can evoke emotions and feelings that don't arise without those sounds

Word, there is something definately magical about those sounds, even if it's only a placebo from knowing it's coming from a Vinyl. For me, it'd probably be from every scratch, every little skip... remembering back to just being so utterly stoned that I couldn't hold the needle, and having such a good time listening to those songs...

It's just like scratches on my old BMX bike, I wouldn't cover them up for the world; Showed you actually got down.

[eleven357]

LOL. To each his own.

Debating this topic is like beating a dead dog.

[jcj77d]

Originally Posted by eleven357

Oh no he wants to debate compression rates of mp3s?

Seriously, can one of you LP heads tell me what the signal to noise ratio is on a Technics SL-1210? Sorry I need more signal than noise in my music.

LP's are good for one thing, mixing, scratching, etc.

I can understand this if you are a DJ who still spins vinyl, but if you aren't then I don't see the point.

(queue flaming comments)

The quality of the MP3 is determined by the bitrate in which it was encoded. Most of my MP3s are ripped@320kbps, which is a much greater quality than 128kbps.

for real, cd's are better in many ways, even in the dj world cd's are making the scene (as i attend many concerts/dj events). cd's can be ripped into many formats, mostly mp3, which 128-160kbps is considered cd quality sound. now there are even better formats u cant get from a LP, like: mp3PRO (double the compression, but same sound quality, eg: 64kbps mp3pro = 128kbps mp3), mp4 (100% digital). the only downfall to cd's is they scratch easy, but thats why we should keep back-ups.