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Sativex: Liquefied marijuana

Discussion in 'Medical Marijuana Usage and Applications' started by killeroo, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. #1 killeroo, Apr 20, 2011
    So Sativex is hitting new markets across the world, below is an article re the US market -

    Is Big Pharma set to corner the American market on medical marijuana? | The American Independent

    Those of us who are in the UK and suffer from MS should be able to get it - but according to the UK MS society the cost to the NHS is £125 per 10ml vial. This works out on average at £11 per person per day, based on 8 sprays per day.

    Now Sativex is a cannabis-based oral spray made from cannabis, peppermint & alcohol - To me this sounds just like a tincture I make called Green Dragon which costs about £10 per 10mls and I am sure works much better.

    Phat Pharma getting rich off something which many people have used for years & years :mad:

    http://www.mssociety.org.uk/downloads/MS_Society_Sativex_Fact_Sheet.008dc29e.pdf
     
  2. #2 Dado, Apr 20, 2011

    Can you share your recipe ?
     
  3. #3 killeroo, Apr 20, 2011
    This the recipe I use - Its not mine I found it on the net and is from Master Wu, I have added bit and bobs to it.


    This is a simple and efficient 4 Step process.

    Ingredients:
    1/8oz high quality cannabis, using bud just makes it much stronger
    2 oz Bacardi Rum – 151 proof - I personal use Stroh 160 proof works a treat, and I love rum.


    Process Summary:

    1. Chop cannabis very fine (coffee grinder works great) I get it like a powder.

    2. Place in a shallow pan (a sheet of aluminium foil works great) and bake at 325F for 5 minutes, no longer!

    3. Remove from oven and place cannabis in 2 oz of 151 proof rum (use a small wide mouth mason jar)

    4. Simmer in a water bath for 20 minutes. Maintain temperature of the rum/cannabis mixture between 170F. This bit smells amazing but open windows and please be careful.

    5. Strain the mixture and store.


    Dosage:
    One millilitre (one full eyedropper) is very nice. Two puts you in space. But you must self-titrate (test it on yourself) as each batch will be slightly different. Effects take up to 1.5 hours to begin (at least in myself) and lasted for 5 hours (1 dropper) to 7-8 hours (2 droppers). I get the bottles from here

    I place one eyedropper (1ml) of Green Dragon in a small glass. I then add a small amount of water (1-2 ml) and drink. Do this on an empty stomach for best results (about 20-30 minutes before eating a main meal is good).


    Process details-references and rationalizations:
    1. Chop the cannabis
    More surface area gives means a faster and more efficient extraction.

    2. Bake the cannabis.
    This converts THCA to THC via a decarboxylation reaction.

    In whole-plant cannabis, THC content is expressed as THCA (tetrahydrocannabolic acid) prior to decarboxylation into THC, which takes place when cannabis is heated during cooking, and smoked or vaporized ingestion. THCA is a mild analgesic and anti-inflammatory but does not have good affinity with our CB1 receptors, so in order to make a THC-rich tincture that has many of the same therapeutic effects as smoked ingestion (including rapid absorption, quick relief and ease of self-titration), we must convert the THCA in the plant matter into THC prior to extracting it through an alcohol soak. (from Vancouver Island Compassion Society http://thevics.com/cannamist.htm)

    THC vaporizes at about 380F. We want to heat the cannabis to convert THCA to THC, but keep the temperature under 380F. That is why 325F is used. Between four and five minutes your oven (and house) will start to smell very strong. This is the time to remove the cannabis from the oven.

    Notice also that there is considerable misinformation regarding heating the cannabis. It is true that you don't have to heat it to extract both THC and THCA, but the amount of THC in whole plant preparations is relatively small compared to after decarboxylation of the THCA. So if you want to maximize the strength of your tincture you must heat the cannabis prior to extraction.

    3. Use the highest proof alcohol available.
    Where I live this is Stroh 160 proof. The more alcohol the more efficient the extraction will be.

    4. Simmer the mixture.
    This is one of the areas that seems to be most debated. Many recipes call for placing the cannabis (unbaked of course) into the alcohol and waiting 2 – 6 weeks. The main concern with heating the alcohol is that it is “explosive” (not exactly true...it is however flammable).

    The purpose of the simmering is to heat the alcohol mixture to improve extraction rates and efficiencies. Heating during extraction increases the motion of the molecules (basic physics/chemistry) and drastically decreases extraction times. The boiling point of pure ethanol is 173F (78C). We will use the water bath to heat the rum/cannabis mixture to just below the boiling point of ethanol.

    Heating the alcohol mixture can be done very safely using a hot water bath. You will need an accurate candy or quick read thermometer. Place about 1 inch of water in a wide, vertical-edged pan (9” diameter x 3” high). Bring the water to a low simmer. The rum/cannabis mixture should be in a small (1 pint) mason jar. Do NOT cover the jar.

    Put the thermometer into the mason jar and place into the simmering water bath. Bring the temperature of the rum/cannabis mixture to about 170F. The alcohol should be just barely boiling.

    You should have the oven fan on high. You will notice that any alcohol fumes are mixed with water vapor from the water bath and vented out the fan. This combined with the fact that you are trying not to boil the ethanol makes the process quite safe.

    5. Strain and store.
    When you are finished with the extraction you will be left with about 1oz of green dragon tincture after you have strained the extract. Notice that one ounce of the alcohol has evaporated. See the tips below for a good way to strain the tincture.

    A standard eyedropper will transfer about 1ml (or 1 gram) of liquid. There are 29 millilitres in one ounce. So you should end up with about 30 or so full eyedroppers (30 millilitres) of Green Dragon.

    The liquid should be dark brownish-green and smell like cannabis.

    6. Dosage. Titration.
    Everybody is different. It takes me between 30-90 minutes to feel the effects of Green Dragon (depending on how much food is in my stomach).

    I had tried a tincture someone had made using the cold extraction method with the same amount of cannabis and found that 5 ml (5 full eyedroppers) did pretty much nothing.

    Using my Green Dragon technique I find that one dropper will bring effects on in 30-90 minutes and last 5 hours with 1.5 hours of lingering after effects.

    Two droppers gave me a "spiritual dose" (as strong as any brownie I ever had). Effects lasted 7-8 hours with lingering effects for 2 more hours.

    This means that 1/8oz of good cannabis yields about 30-34 doses of tincture (1 dropperful is really all I need). For me it is much more pleasant than smoking (I've stopped smoking entirely).


    This link might be helpful.
    Metric Conversion: Worldwide Wholesale Distribution of Valves, Fittings, Tubing & Flanges: World Wide Metric

    Anyway enjoy this recipe always works well for me :D
     
  4. #4 Dado, Apr 20, 2011
    Great Thanks, I'l have to try this !
     
  5. #5 killeroo, Apr 20, 2011
    Do it works very well, easy to use in public etc - I make it for a few friends and they swear by it :D

     
  6. #6 Dado, Apr 20, 2011
    Do you think I could use my herb right from the plant for this recipe ? or should it be dried first ?

    Thank You
     
  7. #7 killeroo, Apr 20, 2011
    Dry & cure it mate - works much much better and its worth the hassle :D

     
  8. #8 Philo DuFresne, Dec 11, 2011
    What about using hash? I have about an 8th of pressed hash, and I'd like to make a spray tincture for sublingual use. Will the alcohol dissolve it, or will it stay a chunk?
     
  9. #9 Ratio, Dec 11, 2011
    in michigan i know of alot of people making tincture now with glycerin. its much more pleasant, i could seriously drink the bottle. more flavorful too. i prefer it to alc extracted tincture.
     
  10. #10 Philo DuFresne, Dec 11, 2011
    Would the hash dissolve in the heated glycerin?
     
  11. #11 froggymountain, Dec 11, 2011
    Genetically Modified Cannabis - Frankenpot - The SATIVEX Collusion


    Issue of the 2003 US Patent ((US6630507) for Hemp Oil is the first step towards corporate takeover of history’s most potent and effective healer – Cannabis.

    Genetically modified organisms or derivative products do not contain the original efficacy of whole original plant. NATURE knows best.

    Also add that industrial, non-organic, chemicals employed in commercial agriculture may enhance growth and girth but are clearly demonstrated as harmful to human health. Monsanto's RoundUP (r) is an excellent example - now over 80% of USA ground water is contaminated and the EPA finally admitted in 2010 that RoundUP (r) is carcinogenic.

    SATIVEX is an excellent example of the impending corporate takeover of a medicine - the strategy is simple: 1) lobby with government to declare the raw substance illegal 2) lobby for production rights under controlled conditions 3) charge exorbitant prices to the public who used to get it for free when they produced it themselves

    SATIVEX – offers only two of the principal cannabis elements selectively sequestered through genetic modification and chemical processing:
    Sativex

    Like Marinol / Dronabinol, SATIVEX is another PHARMA product takeover to provide an expensive, anemic and impotent answer to illness focused on treating symptoms and not curing the underlying disease itself. This approach is engineered to capture "lifetime" or at least prolonged consumer use of the product to increase and sustain corporate revenue returns.

    SATIVEX plants are grown in controlled conditions using industrial chemicals. This means that the final product is laced with toxins – toxins that reduce nutrient efficacy and adversely impact individuals who are chemically sensitive.

    SATIVEX plants are genetically fingerprinted to ensure that if the genome is released to the outside world it can be tracked and growers prosecuted for illegal possession and traffic of a patented product. This methodology proved exceedingly effective for Monsanto in prosecuting farmers raising corn and soybeans – even traces of the genome spread by wind and fauna resulted in farmers sued out of business by Monsanto.

    Future Proof: Protect your crop :
    1)\tGrow organically and toxin free
    2)\tUse only landrace or heirloom seeds for purity and full natural effectiveness
    3)\tGrow in a protected greenhouse or grow room and eliminate pollen contamination

    The future of medicinal cannabis may be another pharmaceutically impaired product that only the few with health insurance can afford.
     
  12. #12 jackc, Dec 24, 2011

    isnt an 1/8th of an ounce of weed 3.5 grams so how would you get 30 good doses outa that? im not contradicting or anything but i thought you need roughly .5g for a normal edible so would not this be sorta the same in dosage?
     
  13. #13 allanfrankel, Dec 29, 2011

    Good post. This is precisely why I have devoted much of my life as a physician in helping local collectives develop CBD rich tinctures at MUCH MUCH MUCH lower cost. At least for my anxiety and pain patients, the average dose of the local co2 super critical extracted tinctures, just like Sativex is made, is 5 sprays two times daily or 10 sprays/24 hrs. Each spray bottle has just under 70 sprays, so is good for a tad under one week and collectives generally "sell" them for $30. In the very near future, months, a month's treatment overnighted to a patient through StateWide Collective And Community | Protecting Dosable Cannabis Medicines For All Patients will be a full month for $100 or so. These are reasonable prices and this is why we must protect our ability to continue purifying and making these pharma level tinctures available to any patient at compassionate prices.

    The current push from the Feds is, at least in my opinion, all about getting the Pharma based cannabis products distributed throughout the US. Sativex is already in five countries and I have nothing at all against it; I do however, greatly resent, their intruding in our efforts to do this compassionately, professionally and inexpensively.
     
  14. #14 jackc, Jan 12, 2012
    bump to my question
     
  15. #15 SoulessStoner, Jan 12, 2012


    I am by no means an expert on this kinda stuff, but I would have to say it has something to do with the concentration of THC.
     
  16. #16 silentbob12, Jan 13, 2012
    Great recipe, i love it ! Gonna try it this weekend :D
     

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