Firebud454's 400w HPS/MH Closet Grow

Yay! I'm so excited to finally get this grow started! This is my second grow. So here's the lowdown:

Supplies:
400 watt HPS light (400w MH conversion bulb for veg)
Fox Farm Happy Frog Soil
Fox Farm Big Bloom, Grow Big, and Tiger Bloom Nutrients
4 CFLs (3 cool white, 1 soft white)
2 Himalaya Gold Feminized Seeds
(I will also be attaching a picture every update of my temp/humidity meter for reference)

I will be using Fox Farms standard soil feeding schedule. I have also attached it for reference. Today (8/17/09) is day one for vegging because they just broke soil today. I watered once when I put the seeds in soil with plain distilled water (3 days ago) and I just watered today with a 1/2 strength solution for week 1.

I was having some heating problems, but it is under control, at least for today. Here is a link in case it comes back up. http://forum.grassci...g-problem.html
It also contains my basic room setup details.


DAY 1:
So for now, I am using the CFLs instead of the MH conversion bulb. I would have the HID setup here now, but HTG supply is closed until next monday. (I'm hoping) I figure it wont make a big difference running the CFLs for week 1 and maybe week 2 as well.

Well, thats about all there is to tell for today. I plan on updating daily so that this can be a comprehensive reference for others. Just let the pictures do the talking.

Stay lifted!

Day 2:

Alright, the babies are lookin good so far. In only one day both of them are almost 2 inches tall already. Both are showing their second set of leaves coming in. Everything is looking good so far.

I'm really tempted to use the Fox Farm Grow Big in my next feeding for all of its Nitrogen supplement, but its not in the schedule until next week. I'll hold off and see how it goes until then.

Also, I bought a 3 pack of the daylight bulbs about a week ago and I realized that one of the bulbs didn't work. So I exchanged it and I now have 3 cool white and 2 soft white CFLs going instead of just 2 and 2. (just to be thorough)

Stay lifted!

Your seedlings do not need any added nutes. They will be able to sustain from the fert's in the soil. Plain water is all you should give at this stage.

Day 3:

Not too much progress from yesterday. They're still just stretching towards the lights as much as they can. No leaf changes.

The heating problem is kind of becoming an issue. I just put the fan on a separate timer yesterday so that the fan will kick on when the lights go on, and go off an hour after the lights go out.

The problem is that when the lights go on in the morning, the door is shut. The fan can kick on (i've only tried it on the low setting, so I will try it on medium or high tomorrow), but since the door is shut. It heats the room up too hot. Today it got to 88F, yesterday it got to 91F.

If it doesn't work with the fan on medium or high, I will just start setting an alarm at 6am daily so I can get up and open the door. When the door is open, there are no heating problems.

Closet grows suck . I wish I had a better spot to do it. Oh well, just gotta get used to 6am I guess.

Stay lifted!

Day 4:

I got some bad news for today. Last night I went and checked on the babies around 3am and I noticed that the lights did not go off. I couldn't figure out what happened with the timer, but with the fan timer working properly the room had the lights on with no fan and the door shut for 1 1/2 hours. The temp got to 88F, but everything seemed to be ok.

BUT, as I was adjusting stuff in the room one of the clamp on lights fell onto the right side plant. Luckily, the stem was only bent, not broken. But it was creased in two places. I quickly propped it up with some toothpicks, hoping it would heal itself. Thankfully, if you look at the picture with the toothpicks in it, you can see that the leaves are still pointing upward at the lights. Last night it was just drooping off the toothpicks. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it heals.

Let me know if you've had any experience with a broken/healing plants. Any input would be appreciated.

Stay lifted!

Day 5:

Not too much to report today. The broken stem is healing better. I did water yesterday with plain water. Sort of my "flush" for the week.

Is it normal that there is not much progress during this stage? It seems like the growth has been slowing a bit since day 2. Day 1 they shot up, day 2 they moved a little less and the past 3 days seemed like they barely moved at all. Its like they are struggling to get past the second tier of leaves.

Any input is appreciated.

Stay lifted!

Good luck with the grow Firebud. I'm very new to all this but it looks like you CFL's might be a little too far away from the plants in the picture. What I have read here is you want to keep em 1-2 inches from the plants. Maybe someone here with more experience will chime in.

I haven't gone back and double checked, but I thought it was supposed to be about 4 inches from the tops. That's what I've been keeping them at. Is this too far for 3 "cool white" and 2 "soft white" bulbs? I'll be switching to 400w MH in about a week. I know thats much further away. Maybe some info on lighting distance would help.

Also, I got my 4 in 1 Rapitest meter today. Light, Moisture, and Soil fertility all tested good. The only thing that rose suspicion was ph. It read that my ph was about 7.0 or 6.9. My fox farm feeding schedule says ph should be 6.3-6.8. Any input as to what a neutral ph can do to a plant? I don't think its suffering, but maybe thats part of the slow growth?

Thanks!

I'm Curiuos what is the wattage of your CFL's? I don't remember seeing you post that. I've done like a months worth of reading on this site and have no firsthand experience but.... From the pictures you posted your girls look like they are in pretty large pots. I've read that If in a large container the seedling will expend mote energy growing the roots downward before growing "up". Again hopefuly someone with more exp will confirm or refute this. I still also think those lights might need to be lowered.
Good luck

The lights look like they could be lowered a bit. That would reduce the chance of your little sprouts stretching and possibly having to be propped upright.

True, I didn't post the wattages of the CFLs. All of the bulbs are "100w" or really 26w (I think).

Yes, I did start in the pots I would finish in because I didn't want to deal with all the hassle of transplanting. I did the same on my first grow, but the pots were probably half the size and I'm planning on getting them taller this time.

I will be sure to take another pic of it tomorrow, but I have a 3 bulb light bar that has one of the sockets hanging from the brackets. This makes it like an inch or two closer than the rest of the bulbs. I try to keep THAT bulb no less than 4 inches away from the tops, so the rest of the bulbs are at least 5 inches away. Is this really too far? I'm switching to MH in about a week. I know lighting distances for HPS, but could anyone shed some light () on lighting distances for vegging? aka for CFLs and for MH? (MH will be 400w remember).

Thanks for the input so far guys. Its good to know I'm not the only one looking at this.

Off to bed, new post tomorrow!

Starting in those pots will work, but be careful not to overwater. That can be very easy when you plant is still young and doesnt have a very large root system. I would definitely say water according to plant height. I think the bulbs are fine being where they are. You can get them within inches, I wouldnt put cfl's closer than two or three though. You risk burning your young plants tips. It is going to be very sensitive at this point. You can get the tube fluoro's even closer, almost touching plant tips. An MH light is going to have a lot more coverage. fluorescent lights in general, well I guess the smaller ones will cover what is directly beneath them. An MH can be pulled back at least a foot depending on wattage. You don't want it to stretch too much, keep the node spacing close and compact. You will be glad you did later on when it really starts to stretch during flowering. Also later on when your plant is really in veg mode you should FIM the plant. Himalayan gold does awesome with LOTS of tops. something to think about. Why didn't you just start them with the conversion bulb? Trying to save a bit on elctricity while they're still small?

Day 6:

Alright, got some good progress today. The upper leaf set is finally starting to push out. Temps are actually in the ideal range instead of just "good enough". And everything is looking good.

I started on the CFLs instead of the conversion bulb because, a) I read that putting a MH bulb on plants under a week or two old can be too harsh on them and HTG supply is down for like a week and thats who I will be ordering my light from. They should be back up and running on monday. So however long it takes them to ship to me, thats when I will start on the MH.

On the subject of watering, I have only watered 3 times so far. Once when I put them in the soil, (add a day for before they broke soil) then once on day 2 and once on day 5. It did get wet enough to have some drainage in the saucer. I ph tested it and it was ok.

Thats all for now.

Stay lifted!

I've no idea how to tag or anything otherwise I'd watch :-\. IMO, lower the lights a tad, they look further than they needa be. And why is the left one hanging further down than the Center and Right one? I'm doing the same thing... using CFL's and mine are almost touchin my plant (My biggest one, I'll take photos).

But my opinion/advice, Lower your lights dude

I will be sure to take another pic of it tomorrow, but I have a 3 bulb light bar that has one of the sockets hanging from the brackets. This makes it like an inch or two closer than the rest of the bulbs. I try to keep THAT bulb no less than 4 inches away from the tops, so the rest of the bulbs are at least 5 inches away.

Also, I fixed this and lowered the light bar and inch or two. I will put new pics up tomorrow.

Day 7:

Alright, end of week 1. Hate to admit, but there has been little to no progress from day 3 or 4. It could be because I started in large pots, so the roots are being established first. It could be because the lights were too far away. It could be that my temps have always been in the upper range. The warmest it gets is 83F. Is anything over 80F really bad? I have no AC in the house so I have to rely on air movement. It will get colder outside here in the next few months, so by flowering I can guarantee that it will not be that warm. It could be that since the pots were so big I over watered.

Speaking of, about how often does everyone else out there water? With my 5 gallon pots, I water once every 3 or 4 days. Does that seem right? I watered last monday, thursday, and I plan to water tomorrow if its dry enough. It will probably be too damp and I will have to wait until monday. Is that a long time to go without water? They seem to be staying wet.

Also, I checked on my meter and it read that the fertility (nute strength) is almost below ideal. Aka I will be ready to give more nutes tomorrow probably or the next day for sure. What if the nutes are too low and it needs more, but it is still too damp to water? I suppose you just have to wait for it to dry out huh.

Also, I put up another pic of the current light situation. Does it look better to everyone?

Well, I should be ordering the new light tomorrow. I will keep you guys updated on that too.

Stay lifted!

Day 7:

Alright, end of week 1. Hate to admit, but there has been little to no progress from day 3 or 4. It could be because I started in large pots, so the roots are being established first. It could be because the lights were too far away. It could be that my temps have always been in the upper range. The warmest it gets is 83F. Is anything over 80F really bad? I have no AC in the house so I have to rely on air movement. It will get colder outside here in the next few months, so by flowering I can guarantee that it will not be that warm. It could be that since the pots were so big I over watered.

Nah, I woundy sweat it much. They look healthy and strong to me. Just be patient and they will start to take off. Probably just like you said and the roots are growing downward. I dont think max of 83 is anything to worry bout.....summers a bitch

Speaking of, about how often does everyone else out there water? With my 5 gallon pots, I water once every 3 or 4 days. Does that seem right? I watered last monday, thursday, and I plan to water tomorrow if its dry enough. It will probably be too damp and I will have to wait until monday. Is that a long time to go without water? They seem to be staying wet.

Everyone waters differently depending on the envirement. There is no "too long" time to water, just wait till they are totaly dried out.

Also, I checked on my meter and it read that the fertility (nute strength) is almost below ideal. Aka I will be ready to give more nutes tomorrow probably or the next day for sure. What if the nutes are too low and it needs more, but it is still too damp to water? I suppose you just have to wait for it to dry out huh.

Giving nutes already? I dont know if that's such a good idea. Arent you using Fox Farms Soil? I think that already has some nutes in it and besides i understand seedlings dont need any nutes for 1st 2 weeks. I'm using Fox Fams Ocean Forest and i'm not planning on feeding nutes till 3'd or 4th week.

Also, I put up another pic of the current light situation. Does it look better to everyone?

Yes, looks good to me!

Well, I should be ordering the new light tomorrow. I will keep you guys updated on that too.

Stay lifted!

Keep up the good work, I think your off to a good start

Hey,
Awesome looking grow, keep up the great work and updates!
I have a 430w and one my plants is a Himiliyan Gold.
Im excited about it, its huge and its just getting into flowering, ill post a pic for you to see what your in store for, haha!

Said pics:

Day 7:

Alright, end of week 1. Hate to admit, but there has been little to no progress from day 3 or 4. It could be because I started in large pots, so the roots are being established first. It could be because the lights were too far away. It could be that my temps have always been in the upper range. The warmest it gets is 83F. Is anything over 80F really bad? I have no AC in the house so I have to rely on air movement. It will get colder outside here in the next few months, so by flowering I can guarantee that it will not be that warm. It could be that since the pots were so big I over watered.

Speaking of, about how often does everyone else out there water? With my 5 gallon pots, I water once every 3 or 4 days. Does that seem right? I watered last monday, thursday, and I plan to water tomorrow if its dry enough. It will probably be too damp and I will have to wait until monday. Is that a long time to go without water? They seem to be staying wet.

Also, I checked on my meter and it read that the fertility (nute strength) is almost below ideal. Aka I will be ready to give more nutes tomorrow probably or the next day for sure. What if the nutes are too low and it needs more, but it is still too damp to water? I suppose you just have to wait for it to dry out huh.

Also, I put up another pic of the current light situation. Does it look better to everyone?

Well, I should be ordering the new light tomorrow. I will keep you guys updated on that too.

Stay lifted!

It's lookin good at the moment, keep an eye on it though. Big Pots are a pain in the ass, next grow you do ... start with small pots then upgrade. Stick your finger about an 1 - 1 1/2 inch in to see if you needa water. Lights look better as well!

PS: The way I water.. is I stick my finger in my pot... and if I don't feel any dampness, I water till it comes out the bottom... right when it starts dripping I stop. And water all around it.