My First grow! 400 W HID digital ballast, grow tent, vic's super soil

[JoeGrow420]

Edit:
guys, no longer doing hydroponic grow. I'm going to use vic's super soil for my first cycle or two. I don't know why the grow tent link broke below, just copy and paste.



Hello all, I have been a very long time smoker but I am just now getting around to making the decision that I'm going to grow. I have decided to use Rumple buckets, going to have 2 going under 400 watts.

I haven't bought anything yet, because I'm spec-ing out all of the components. There is still quite a bit that I don’t fully understand and I feel like if I just jump in and buy everything that I think I need then I’m going to be making a mistake. I want you guys to look at this stuff and let me know if you see any problems.

http://forum.grasscity.com/general-i...step-step.html Here's the Rumple buckets guide. Basically I'm buying everything I need on that page to build 2 rumplebuckets and have enough parts left over for optional reservoir. I’m buying at least 1 extra of everything because I foresee some mistakes being made in the construction.

[url=http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-REFLECTIVE-INTERIOR-GROW-TENT-CABINET-HYDROPONICS-G_W0QQitemZ290368045834QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defau ltDomain_0?hash=item439b48c30a)[/url] There's my grow tent. Except mine is 4 Foot by 2 foot. 48"x24". It will fit with plenty of room into the closet that I'll be growing in. It also looks like it will fit a 400W light pretty good, and shouldn't have any trouble with the buckets underneath. It has plenty of holes for hooking up vents and such, I think this is a good tent. You guys tell me if you know of a better deal or something that's going to suit me better.

Thermometer Hygrometer Temperature Gauge Humidity Meter - eBay (item 180419994282 end time Nov-13-09 23:33:22 PST) There's my hygrometer. Its cheap, but I expect it will do the job it needs to do. If you guys think I need something more high end, let me know, throw me a link if you can.

[url=http://www.extech.com/instruments/product.asp?catid=40&prodid=430[/url] here's the PH meter that Rumpleforeskin recommended to me. I think I found the best price on it. I just used google shopping and typed in extech ph100

[url=http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsLogin&item=110401195043&gues t=1)[/url] Here's a 6 stage reverse osmosis kit, for the best price i could find. It comes with the tank, installation instructions, seems like a good deal. Although Rumple told me I should be able to find this item for less than $125 (he said 5 stage or better, 100GPD) Also, it kinda worries me when in the item description It says "This DI resin may not generate 0 ppm water, if you need 0 ppm, please check our 0 ppm item" Do you guys think this is a good buy and if this is what I need to get? Again, throw a link my way if you can, if you think that something else is more fitting. I really am only going to need the fixed up water once every 7-10 days, and even then its only going to be 6-8 gallons. Any idea why some include a tank and some do not? I thought the idea behind reverse osmosis kits was its a retrofit for your sink and when you get water out of that sucker it comes out cleaned up. Why would a tank be of any benefit?

General Hydroponics Dry pH Up & pH Down I'm going to buy 4 lbs of the PH up stuff and 4 lbs of the PH down stuff. I figure that will last me a good long time.

[url=http://www.google.com/product_url?q=http://growwurks.com/general-hydroponics-floramicro.aspx&fr=ACaZ-lqQ_kvMGeg1oB1k2UXZryRR_vvEiZ0PlJeWbg47uPz_39bse3J HMr3IcL3jVZvJ2DkrfrCyagkVXa7uGbhGrwcnO8nfOHD74pWzQ v_ZaZruSZASigI6ZEwybM8I5CF7RvsAmIV0AAAAAAAAAAA&ei= Wd76Sr-ANIbkywTj5NCTCQ&sig2=m-vNuy-sQEJywupn3n9g0A&gl=us&hl=en&sa=title)[/url] This is gh flora micro. To be used in conjunction with the Lucas Method.

[url=http://www.google.com/product_url?q=http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php%3Fproducts_id%3D36&fr=ACviETBSsd8 vwALkhPzQ-mBMQUKCDv7p0M3mhC1fMXp0_JOmMX4dAOa00KbCyGUG2y4mEnC MsbSfUBBLYthG9fMvCRa_sL_4nhZ-Q0GjUthfJcxjR9biAcu9AHSjHB0M80LE2C1wys7RAAAAAAAAAA A&ei=p976SpqULZqSyQX-rqT0DA&sig2=eCk0nF7DpVP46X6ZWw0Xxw&gl=us&hl=en&sa= title[/url] GH bloom 32 OZ. To be used in conjunction with the Lucas method.

HPS & Metal Halide 400 watt HPS Grow Light w 400w MH - eBay (item 220492737396 end time Oct-28-09 20:00:33 PDT) This is a 400 watt HPS ballast. Comes with reflector and a HPS bulb and a MH conversion bulb. I'm buying this kit because the cost is low, it should do very well for what I need, and includes the MH bulb (best for Veg, so I read), and the HPS conversion bulb(best for flowering), the socket, all the cords, basically, this looked like the best thing for me with everything already taken care of.



Well, that's everything I've got picked out.

In all honesty, I've been reading this forum for 2.5 days now, and my roomate is talking trash to me constantly because I'm not playing any video games with him. I'm getting sick of reading and decifering and cross checking and browsing and searching ...etc. I know that undertaking this hobby is time consuming, but I have been completely obsessed with this stuff and I am dying to order some of this stuff and get my hands on it. But I'm not gunna get anything until I have everything laid out and I'm totally comfortable.

I really need some help with the last of the things I know I need. If you guys can link me, I will be forever grateful.

I need:
1. an intake fan,
2. some intake ducting (you tell me if its necessary, with this tent)
3. an exhaust fan (we need it strong enough to blow through the air filter), with An air filter (charcoal I assume is best, but I am happy to receive other recomendations) and some exhaust ducting (you tell me if its necessary, with this tent).

I'm thinking I may be able to take care of 1 with some PC fans wtih drain grate flanges and some of the pvc elbows with black paint on the inside. 2 you guys are gunna have to tell me, if I just use the PC fans then I'm not gunna need the ducting, because the pc fans aren't strong enough to push air through the ducts. I guess If I need ducting its because I needed a real fan, instead of the little 80-120mm jobs you can get for a PC. Taking care of 3: Vortex 4 Fan Carbon Filter Combo - Carbon Filters .. Is this good? Is it too good? Is the price too high? Do you guys have something else you usually recomend? How about this one: 4 inch Inline Fan + Carbon Air Filter Scrubber Combo 4" - eBay (item 370278431043 end time Oct-28-09 15:21:13 PDT) The price is lower on this one. I think it may be a better fit, the tent I'm getting is only 4x2x5. Not a huge amount of air to clean.

Thanks guys, for being so damn cool about helping guys like me. Please, if you have any recomendations (besides "Use soil for your first grow" - i've already made up my mind), please Let me know. The more links the better.

[JoeGrow420]

Guys, Im seeing a problem in the last link in my original post. 4 inch Inline Fan + Carbon Air Filter Scrubber Combo 4" - eBay (item 370278431043 end time Oct-28-09 15:21:13 PDT) I says the fan is 125 CFM and the optimal CFM for the filter is 150-265. do you guys think this is close enough for this to be a good buy?

Here's one that costs about $45 more with the increased shipping- 6 x 24 ACTIVATED CARBON FILTER, w/240 CFM INLINE FAN - eBay (item 330338920831 end time Nov-16-09 18:23:43 PST) Its got a 240cfm fan that is built with the filter. Is this a better buy for me?

here's one thats a little cheaper, I think about $12 cheaper than my original post 4" Carbon Air Filter Inline Fan Scrubber odor control - eBay (item 260497296442 end time Nov-02-09 13:30:18 PST) the deal with this one, is its just a 128CFM fan but it comes with a "matching odorsok".



Honestly, I think I'm missing out on something here. I can only find a very limited number of inline fan+carbon air filters. If you search for grow lights, you will find a bajillion on ebay. Maybe I'm not searching with the right keywords. Maybe these units are purchased through regular online vendors, rather than ebay, usually. Guys, let me know what you know.

Thanks again

[JoeGrow420]

Guys, I was also wondering if 3 PC fans mounted to PVC drain grates and pvc elbows for light proofing would be enough intake to keep the system running cool and the plants supplied with enough fresh air.

[Rumpleforeskin]

I will start off answering a few (pressed for time right now).
I have made a few changes to the bucket. Don't build that airstone holder thing. Just get a few 2" bubble disks at petsmart. Also, install the fill port into the lid.


Always check for leaks by letting your buckets sit for 24 hours full of water. No matter how small the leak is, it's too much.

Don't know anything about grow tents.

That temp gage will do the job. I like the remote ones, so I can sit on my ass and check the temps in my room. $30



Extech PH100 pH Meters are great. Make sure to get some calibrations solution. And get a good size bottle of each (like 16 oz)


That is a good system. But lots of folks sell the same one. I like to bid on the same ones that are in auction. Yes get the one with the DI.


I hate the light you picked out. I like digital ballasts that can take either bulb and not force you to buy expensive conversion bulbs. That hood is great for heating food, not for growing weed.
Call this number: 301-490-9236 it is Maryland Hydroponics. They have a website but it sucks and hardly works. Talk to the guy on the phone and tell him what you want. No place on earth can beat the prices they have. Tell them their website sucks and get another 20% off. I have ordered hundreds of items from these guys. They have no clue about selling on the web but they are great to deal with on the phone.

Cool tube. $62




Digital ballast: 400 ORACLE DIGITAL BALLAST 120V $108

They have that ebay ballast for 55 if you are dead set on it. You can also buy used digital ballast with the same warranty for $60.

Get your bulbs at Lowes or Homedepot. They are a lot less then the hydro stores.

Go witht the Vortex 4 Fan Carbon Filter Combo. I like the name brand and that Ebay stuff looks cheap.




Get a thermostat. I like the Ranco ETC111000. Wire your self with a new extension cord and it will cost your around $45 or buy it with the cord and its $80. Regardless you need one.

[Rumpleforeskin]

Forget about using PC fans if your going to grow with HID lamps

[Rumpleforeskin]

One last thing. Do your first two grows in good potting soil using 3 to 5 gallon planters. Forget about hydro and plant food your first few break in cycles. You will have mega issues with a new grow setup, you dont want to do the "hydro learning curve" while that is going on.

[JoeGrow420]

Rumpleforeskin, thanks a ton for taking the time to respond in my thread.

1. When I build a bucket, I'll be sure to follow your design revision.
2. I'm just buying the grow tent because its easier than building my own sealed enclosure. I'm hoping the quality of the product is better than what I could have came up with also. It already has vent holes and is light proof.
3. Thats a great product there, the remote temp gauge. I'll think about spending the extra $$
4. I wasn't aware I had to buy calibration solution. Glad you mentioned it.
5. Great. glad I found a good RO system. I am still kind of wondering why some have tanks and some don't, and why I need a tank. I don't understand what the tank does. Its my understanding that a RO system will install under a sink and it will cause the water that comes out of the sink in the future to be clean, to have near zero ppm. Why can't I use a cheaper, tankless sysem?
6. So I take it I should buy a Cool Tube, and 400 ORACLE DIGITAL BALLAST 120V . Thats fine, no problems there. Is there a specific fan that is sized just for that Cool Tube (which is just a certain type of standalone hood, right).
7. Thermostat. Whats that going to do for me? Its gunna cut my fan(s) on when it gets too hot. Also It'll cut off the fans when the environment is cooled down enough, too. Right? That's all, right? Why can't I just buy another timer or run the fans off the same timer I'm gunna use for the lights? I will buy it if you tell me to do so, but I am not sure why I need it.
8. OK, so if PC fans aren't going to be good enough to provide intake air, then what other product should I be looking at to do the job?
9. I've not grown in soil before so I think I'm going to have a "soil learning curve". I've already read about the bubble buckets, and read a lot, and have mostly everything planned out in my head. I feel like I can handle this hydro grow. I do not feel comfortable with soil. I feel like soil will be more trouble because I don't know anything about it and I've done lots of bubble bucket related reading. I just feel like the hydro will be easier for me, the Lucas method seems really fool proof. There's no over/underwatering. There's no soil for fungus flies to hide out/be attracted to. Soil is going to need to be tested, right? I was going to avoid buying a EC meter if I could.

Listen, you are definitely the professional. Compared to you, I am totally lacking in knowledge. What I'm getting at is this: Tell me why soil is going to be easier than the bubble buckets. I will listen to you and follow your advice, but other than just coming out and saying that a guy like me will be better off with soil, I have not seen any convincing words.

[Rumpleforeskin]

Your mother plant needs to be in soil anyway. So soil growing needs to be done regardless. A good premix soil recipe is easy to make and all you do after that is add water twice a week. No testing needed for a mix like Vics Super Soil. I can keep a mom in vic's for a year before I need to replace her and the dirt. From seed to harvest in this stuff, only add water. The only time I have had issues with Vic's was when I thought I would add a bit of plant food to it, burnt the hell out of my bud. Only add water, that it.

The good thing about a soil premix is, you will harvest something the first go round. Might not be the motherload but it will make you and your friends happy. Hydro might take a few stabs before you get some results.
You need to make a batch of this anyway:
Here is your soil mix. It's called Vic's Super Soil:

1 Bale sunshine mix #2 or promix (3.8 cu ft)
8 cups Bone Meal - phosphorus source
4 cups Blood Meal - nitrogen source
1 1/3 cups Epsom salts - magnesium source
3-4 cups dolomite lime -calcium source & pH buffering
4 cups kelp meal.
9kg (25 lbs) bag pure worm castings

- Mix thoroughly, moisten, and let sit (uncovered) 1-2 weeks before use.

I give this advice to all new growers with new grow setups. Very few take the advice. Most wished they had. I will still help you even if you decide not to take this step.

You don't need or want intake fans. That 4" vortex blower will almost cave in that tent as it is. All you need is exhaust and passive intakes (holes).



Reverse Osmosis filtering takes a while. If you don't have a storage tank, it will only give you a very small slow stream of water. The tank has a pressure bladder built in, so it collects the water and re-pressurizes the water in the tank. When you open the faucet it come out with normal pressure. You need it, get it.











You will need to match a reducer to any fan and ducting to your cool tube. The damn thing is 5", the dryer ducting and fan are 4". Take it all down to Lowes or homedepot and buy a reducer that fits. I had to do both ends of my cool tube, but you only have to do one end. The other end will stay open to draw the air from the room. Sorry no good pictures (I looked). I like the rubber clay pipe reducers. You can stick a PVC elbow in one side to keep your dryer ducting from kinking. I took my cool tube in the store and told them it was for a reptile enclosure. A lamp that wont burn your snake.

Well you may not need a thermostat. If the air your room intakes is around 70 and never gets lower, then you don't need to worry about it getting too cool. My intake during the winter gets below 40, so my fan only cycles a few times an hour. I like it when it does not need to be on all damn day and night (quiet). I even have one of them thermostats hooked to a small porcelain space heater to help maintain even temps during cold months. The dark cycle can get pretty chilly. They make the Ranco with dual settings that can run a cooling device and a heating device as well.

[Mechanibus]

Joe, you are doing the exact same thing I am, with similar parameters and thought process. I won't step on your thread or Rump's mastery by pretending to be an expert- in fact I'm a total noob with only 3 weeks of actual "plant time." However, even noobs have good advice, (because they quickly produce opportunities to learn from error) and mine pertains directly to this situation:

1. You have chosen well to follow Rump, and follow exactly. One extra of everything is wise, and expecting to make mistakes is appropriately humble, BUT-

2. About this tent: I ordered the white-inside version from a similar china-direct-to-you emporium on ebay. While it was shipping, I read about tents some more and learned that white pvc tents, especially cheap ones are almost sure death for your babies. There are construction quality issues with these exact tents as well. I Looked at it when it got here, smelled it, felt it- and then I packed it up and sent it back at MY expense. $25 dollar lesson. The outfit you chose has a NO RETURNS policy. Bottom line: Don't buy from those who do not back their products, or the products they sell on China's behalf. I know yours is the new silver type- it's still crap.

HOWEVER, it may be the best choice since I'm sure you're renting. In an ideal world, you'd be venting through walls like Rump and I do. Our closets are actually less accessible than that tent, but my point is if we had a closet big enough to set that tent inside, we'd just use the whole closet. Don't mean to speak for Rump, and as I said if you're renting and want to really insulate the grow a tent might be the best way.

3. Cheap thermo/hygro units are fine. $7 at Wally's or $10 for the fancy one Rump has with remote monitors. Buy 3 cheapies: res temp, canopy temp, general temp + humidity.

4. After much, much, much reading I decided on on using $20 Milwaukee meters (p-600) and HM digital $15 TDS meters. Cheap, but people say the good ones are as easily ruined as the cheap ones, and I can get 4 of these for 1 of those. I'm going to "learn on" these meters, and decide later if expensive is enogh better. As long as you understand that your measurement is only as good as your calibration and how often you should calibrate (learn by testing your own instrument) you should be good to go.

For the record, I have not bought mine yet so if my reasoning is unsound, please tell me!

5. Buy the exact RO stuff Rump tells you to. I will also. (Sheesh- BigToke over at IC mag has almost got me convinced that tap water is ok for auto top off. . . Help me Rump, one of your flock is straaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnn nnnnnnnnngggggggggg....)

6/7/8. Yes, I'm going to follow Rump here too. Don't think you need pH stuff by the pound, though.

9. I hate that light too. It sucks. Cooltube or generic cooltube is the only way to go in a tent, or anywhere really. I took a Hydrofarm all-in-one unit, made the ballast remote, added duct flanges to both ends, bought glass for the bottom, and after 20 hours of dicking with it what have I got: A substandard, noisy, uncased ballast with non-standard cordset, with a ghetto-ass home depot'd up, bulky, shitty light fixture with more holes in it than in it than a coke-whore's septum. Buy the cooltube.

Exhaust fan: Not to contradict Rump- but consider this- FV-10NLF1 - Inline Fans - Shop and Compare at Panasonic

I have one of the "20" size (fv-20nlf1, 240cfm) and it easily cools my light (400w) and exhausts my room of about 2'x4.5'x8' about 70 cubic feet. It does this while pulling through 12' intake duct, 3'duct/light/3' duct, fan, then the exhaust of the fan blows so much (lots) of air onto my ballast that it stays cool to the touch. Damn.

Come to think of it, if you get the tent get the smaller blower. (fv-10) That big one might suck that tent flat. Not kidding.

Come to think of it again, I REALLY like that the fv-20 uses 6" duct. (16 times less difficult to pull air through than 4") I will never use 4" ducting if I could easily use 6", and possibly have the extra benefit of turning down the blower or using it less. From my experience with it, if it were in a closet I could not hear it on the other side of the door, but if it vents outside, you would hear it sucking air under the door like an effin' shop vac, no kidding.



Things you are doing right:

-Reading! Rump has responded to you so well, as have I because you read up before you asked. You did your homework, and you can write in complete sentences. Most people on furums fail on both those marks. 2.5 Hours? Great start! I read for 50 before I blew a bunch of cash. I should have read for 100 hours. But between Rump (This is what you should do) and Me (this is what you should NOT do) we'll get you started.

-Trusting Rump

-Waiting to buy until the system is planned (wish I was better at this)


Joe, I hope you don't feel I'm strangling your thread with my opinions. Hopefully this is helpful for you. Good luck, and remember this: Don't Tell, Don't Smell, Don't Sell. You are already breaking one rule and I know you have dreams of breaking one other (just like I do) I know you won't follow these but try to and don't say we didn't tell you.

Best of luck, man-

Mech


ps. Rump, I addressed you a few times in this post, because I haven't started my own journal yet. I guess I should now. . . don't wanna threadjack. . . better get started. Apologies, Joe- I'll step off now.

[JoeGrow420]

HAHA very ammusing cover story I will be using it, the reptile enclosure deal! A lamp that won't burn the snake. Haha. Great. So yeah, I bought the cooltube, and everything else I said I was going to buy. I even bought the tent. I am now in a state of buyer's remorse and I really really really hope that I have not made a mistake.

OK, cool deal about your thoughts iwth the thermostat, Rumple. The intake will never be pulling in any air that is less than 65 degrees. In the closet that it's in, it gets kinda cool in there on some nights if I keep the door shut. But typically the air will be 70-77 degrees. I assume the whole temperature of the closet is going to increase with this tent inside of it. I'll adjust what I have to adjust to make it work. Like you said this vortex 4 is going to be moving a whole lot of air. But I definitely would like to see how much leverage I can gain in turning some of this equipment down. I just don't know if I'm gunna be able to do it, because I don't know what the temps are gunna look like till I put this light in this tent and start setting up.



And yeah, I got the 4" Vortex fan. I went with a lesser charcoal filter, on another site. www.dchydro.com . LOL after linking that I realized I ordered everything from DCHydro, everything I could, these are your guys from Maryland. Everything worked on their website for me. I was in a trigger pulling mood last night and now I'm wondering if you could have possibly been BSing when you said they'll give you 10% off for just calling and telling them their website sucks. LOL. Actually their site worked fine for me, here is the other stuff I got from them:
www.dchydro.com
www.dchydro.com
www.dchydro.com
www.dchydro.com
www.dchydro.com
I'm pretty sure I got some smaller sized rockwool cubes as well. Sorry, no link.

other than that I got 2 via aqua 1300 and 2 whisper 100. So yeah, I'm real excited about all this.

Rumple, I still am thinking about doing something with soil, and I had read quite a few times where you had recomended Vic's super soil. To say I know nothing isn't quite true, but I'm glad you've restressed it. I may end up with 2 grow rooms, Its necessary to do this anyway, if you are cloning, but I was thinking I'll do everything from seed. I know that its so much slower and there are so many uncertainties, having to wait to find out what sex they are being the biggest problem. I'm warming up my mind to the idea.

Why can't your mother plant be in a bubble bucket?

Rumple, Thanks for all your wisdom.

Mechanibus,

I want you to give me every opinion you'e got. I looked at that panasonic unit and they told me that I was not able to buy the unit because there wern't any retailers in my area. I didn't take it further other than peaking at it. I saw it moves less cfm than the one I ordered. But your probably right its probably going to own the tent. I'm feeling worse and worse about the tent all the time.

I am not actually renting. It just looked like a better solution than building something out of materials I don't have or know much about using tools and supplies that I don't have or know much about. And its collapseable and storeable, if I need to do that. Actually, I can just put it right back up on ebay for sale, since I can't return it like you pointed out.

But I'll probably give it a shot and just see what I think. I hope it isn't toxic. I read the auction again and they are claiming that its super safe for plants. But yeah, it looks like one of these cheap chinese won't stand behind don't care only move product not trying to learn english type vendors.

Oh and it wasn't 2.5 hours. It was 2.5 days And it wasn't 2.5 days of someone who just blindly reads, it was 2.5 days of someone who reads for understanding and who reads the links and usually does his own google searches when something isn't totally clear. I was lazy with the reverse osmosis one, but it was a fairly simple question. By the way, i ordered one today - just lke the one I linked before.

I'll report on anything interesting that happens or if I need help with something. I've got a camera so I can take some pics to help explain wtf I'm talking about if something comes up.

Thanks for the help, both of yas

OH, btw, http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-...emon-haze.html this is a real good thread of someone who is doing most of the same stuff we are doing. I found it yesterday I think.

Timing was a big thing here, I just couldn't wait any longer. I had to jump on it and buy the stuff yesterday. If I'd waited a day I think I'd have bought the lesser fan (would have found a way to get that panasonic product even if their page told me to F off). And I would have just looked more into what wood I needed to box this stuff in and would have went to work on that. Probably would have bought a table saw, never know when you might need one of those anyways!

I definitely want a cool table like the one I've seen in some of the Skinster's posts

[Rumpleforeskin]

Growing from seed is a lot harder for a number of reasons. First off each seed is an individual plant with it's own characteristics (like people). No matter who you buy from, your seeds will vary quite a bit. I grew for years to get my White Widow mother. The pack of seeds produced ten plants from ten seeds. Of the ten 4 came out male. 3 females came out short (some thinck some thin), 3 came out tall. Of the tall ones, only one made heavy bud, the others where quite skinny.

I would hate to go through that every three months. I could tell you the sad story of why I started cloning my plants.

I grew from seed my first year or two. I grew ten plants in my broom closet (in Vic's Super Soil). I was used to pulling half due to male, that was not a problem (as a matter of fact it help creat needed space). I planted a few seeds from a ten pack of Nirvana-PPP. Of the five, one grew twice as fast. It yeilded more then all the other 5 plants put together. It was the most beautiful plant I have ever seen to this day. The bud smelled like MountianDew syrup and heavy honey. My wife had trouble smoking the bud cuz it locked her up so bad for the best part of the hour. The folks I let try it agreed that it was the best weed they have ever smoked.

I said it was a sad story, and it is. I never cloned that plant and was unable to get anything like it again. I planted a shit load of seeds, with only mediocre results. Had I cloned that plant, I would still be growing it today. I did find my White Widow while looking for the magic plant, so it was not a total loss. But it is a far cry from the magic plant I found from a single lucky seed.

You need to clone every single plant you grow from seed. Hold on to the female clones until after harvest. Sooner or later you will find a "stand-out".

Cloning is very simple, all you need is a clone-machine and water. It requires very little ventilation (your PC fans) and a few CFLs for light. A dorm room fridge is about all the space you need for a mom and all the clones you want to hold.

Moms dont need to grow fast, Hydroponics is a tool for growing plants fast. Stick her in dirt and forget about her. Toss a cup of water at her twice a week. Growing a mother in hydro is a lot of wasted effort and maintenance.

[JoeGrow420]

Damn, that's some good advice.

100% logical and EXTREMELY informative. I'll take every word of it under advisement.

I'll figure out another enclosure, for the clone/mother

[Sirus]

Great thread guys! I am in the same boat is Joe atm. How loud is that 4" vortex? I am building a wooden "armorie" and leaning towards that fan for exhaust/cooling (29"x 48"x 80"). I have a SunMaster 2 AirCooled 400w MH/HPS electronic ballast on the way as a gift, and jumpstarter for this project. The grow has to be a stealth so I'm looking for a way to keep the sound down.

[JoeGrow420]

Dude I will receive the fan within the next week or so. DC Hydro/ Maryland Hydro do indeed have a crappy website. Their shipping policy on their website says that they should have shipped the fan and the other stuff yesterday, and I should have been emailed about it - with a tracking number. Well, i wasn't.

So I'll call em on the phone tomorrow with the order number and see what they can tell me. Skinster- think its too late to ask about the 10% discount?

Oh yeah, my point is I don't know how loud it is but I'll let you know if you follow up and keep reading the thread. I would speculate that it is going to be loud as hell.

[Sirus]

Yea I will be following so let me know what you think. I'm defitinly interested in getting a variable speed fan. Need the CFM though as I'm gonna need a filter/light/fan/exhaust set-up.