Third time's the charm - femmed white widow in hydro

[Help_Needed]

And the glory of the HPS shone forth upon the plants. And the plants did bathe in the radiance of the HPS.

And it came to pass that the plants did cry out with one voice,

OH MY GOD! It's hot in here!!!

Yeah, I finally got off my ass and put up my HPS lighting. It's nice. It's bright. And my temps have gone through the roof. Ventilation is definitely an issue, again. Not on the hydro hut itself, that's venting just fine. But the closet that it's in isn't. So all the nice warm air from the hydro hut is being blown out into the closet...and then getting sucked back in again. Temps got up into the high 90's last night, although that was up towards the roof. Around the plants (once I took the sensor out of direct light) it was in the 80's. Res temps have gone up to 82 again .

So, this afternoon I'll be exploring venting options. Obviously I'm going to have to knock at least one hole in the closet wall. The only question is, where? I could punch a hole into the bathroom, under the counter and then run a hose from the exit port on the hut to the wall. That would vent the warm air into the bathroom and allow cooler air to come via the gap under the closet door. Alternately, I noticed while I was walking the dog that the next door neighbor's dryer venting (I live in a condo) runs through the wall/ceiling right behind the closet. It would be fairly easy to punch a hole in the back wall and tap into it close to where it exits the building. That would allow me to suck cool air in from outside. The only problem with this is, it would be a major pain in the ass because I'd have to move the hydro hut - which means at least partially disassembling it. Decisions, decisions.

In other news, increasing the nutes to full strength seems to have solved my deficiency problem (thanks Mr. G). However I'm seeing dramatically different gorwth rates between my two plants, especially considering that they're the same age. The larger plant is almost twice the size of the smaller plant and is putting out a lot of side branches. My original plan was to top both plants and use the tops to make clones so I can have four total plants. I may revise that plan and just take some clones from the big one. I'll plant a couple and then put a couple in soil to use as mothers for future grows.

Pics below - You can see the nute damage on the small plant as well as the size difference. The last two pics are the mother plants that I took from the last grow. They've finally started to get back into veg mode. I took the clones during late flowering and I wasn't sure they would ever get over the shock .

And, yes, my HPS is being held up by ropes right now. Totally ghetto, I know lol. I'm on my way to the grow store this afternoon to replace the "unbreakable" reservoir thermometer that I managed to break, and to get something better to hang the light with.

P.S. Mr. G, I think I definitely have an outdated version of the Lucas Formula. The one I've got is showing ~1.2 EC for veg and ~1.9 EC for flowering http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-...s-formula.html. Can ya post or PM me a link to what you've got? Thanks.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Looks like you got some work on your hands. My garden has been whupping my ass lately too I must admit. Glad you got the HPS up though, that's going to be a HUGE difference.

The Lucas formula I have (it's in my previous post- that's it) comes from the Ask Lucas thread. I just had to sit down and read the whole thing. I will read it again and I still check back to hear his thoughts on things.

Right now he's talking about how adding fresh nutrients to a rez can cause clouding but I've never experienced it. He was saying adding phUP to the rez when it has nutes can cause the same thing too- but I have no idea what he's talking about LOL I use advanced nutrients phUP and down though, maybe that's the trick. I'm not asking because it's worked for brokencage and has worked for me just fine with the water clear as ever. I also don't always add the water back to the original water line and just dilute it down to 1000 sometimes. He was saying this wasn't a good idea either and I'm not seeing any issues whatsoever. Maybe I'm getting lucky or the additives (namely fulvic acid, if anything is locked out that molecule can re-chelate it or whatever it's called that makes it available again ) I'm using are helping, I don't know.

But it's just one of those things you know works- you just have to use it and if you get it to work stick with that.

He wasn't talking about FloraNova either- just the normal 2 part formula that does it. Have to add micro first and shit- he was saying it causes cloudiness. I've never checked how clear the water is after I add nutes before, but I do know my water doesn't stay cloudy at least. Everything is more than fine- I'm talking ridiculous growth.

All in all it's experience that you are after. You'll get the hang of it after you use it a bunch of times because it works for sure!

Good luck bro!

[SmknVTEC]

Originally Posted by Mr.GoodStuff

This is what Lucas recommends. 0-8-16 under HID 0-5-10 under floro. I found the 0-5-10 to be too strong for my plants in veg so I reduced it to something around 0-3-6 or so (1.0 EC) and the plants flourished.

I have a question. Why is there no nitrogen in this Lucas formula?

[pokerfiend]

Lucas formula measures 3 different types of nutes used in the general hydroponics series. Believe it goes grow micro bloom ( i could have micro and bloom switched up) but the formula is parts of each type of nutrient not npk.

[Help_Needed]

Originally Posted by SmknVTEC

I have a question. Why is there no nitrogen in this Lucas formula?

You're misreading the numbers. The 0-8-16 (or whatever) refers to the ratio between the three bottles of standard GH nutes - FloraGrow, FloraMicro, and FloraBloom. All three bottles have some nitrogen in them, although the FloraGrow is almost pure nitrogen. The reason that Lucas doesn't use the FloraGrow in his formula is because marijuana requires so much magnesium and calcium. By the time you've added in enough FloraMicro and FloraBloom to meet your plant's cal/mag requirements, you've also got enough nitrogen in there form the too.

[Help_Needed]

A hydro hut.

A hydro hut in the closet.

It's hidden. I can still use the closet as a closet. It'll be convenient. It will be an easy environment to regulate.

Yeah, right .

So, as promised I did some work to increase air flow to help regulate my temps. A quick trip to Home Depot bought me a nice dryer vent installation kit, and a 4 1/4" circular saw blade. The blade cost 4 times more then the vent kit, but whatever lol.

The vent was actually easy to install. I think it took a whole ten minutes. Connecting the flexible duct between the hut and the vent was a whole 'nother story.

Setting the hut up in the closet was such a wonderful idea. But...there's only 5 inches of clearance between the top and the ceiling. On one side, there's 4 inches between the hut and the wall. On the other side, and in back, I've got maybe 15 inches. It also doesn't help that I'm a little...uh...vertically challenged. It's a bit of a pain to work on a hut that's 6 1/2' tall when you're only 5' 7". The flange that came with the kit wouldn't cooperate. If I installed it facing into the hut, there was no where to connect the duct. If I put it facing out of the hut, there wasn't enough room between the flange and the ceiling. Nothing worked.

After two friggen hours of fighting with it, I gave up trying to use the flange. I ran the flexible duct directly into the port in back, and connected it directly to the can fan. The fan is now suspended from the ceiling by a very lovely piece of rope - also held on by duct tape . It's not pretty, but it works.

Ambient temps in the closet are now in the low 80's, which, while not ideal yet, is adequate. The reservoir is still too warm, though, so I guess I'll have to break out the cooler again. Unfortunately I think I pitched the soda bottles I was using. Guess I'll have to start saving them again.

I also increased the nute strength again today. I brought it up to 700ppm to see if the plants can handle it. Assuming I don't get any nute burn along the way, my goal is to get them up to 950ppm (that's about 2.0 EC for the curious lol) sometime in the next week or two.

Last, but not least, another air pump has gone bad. The one I was using has two air ports. I was using one for the drip-feed line and the other for an extra air stone in the bottom of the reservoir. The air stone has quit bubbling. Guess next time I'll just break down and get two separate pumps.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Way to make it work bro despite the issues. Determination is a great attribute to have!

[Help_Needed]

Yep. Managed to light burn one of my plants yesterday lol. My plan was to start the HPS out extra high, and then move it down gradually as the plants got used to it. Apparently "extra high" was really just right, and when I moved it down about 3 inches it was too close. Oh well, live and learn (again...and again) .


The temps in the hut are still too high for my tastes. I don't think the 80cfm fan I've got in there is moving enough air, so this afternoon I'll be out searching for something bigger. I found a 200cfm on line for a reasonable price, but then would have to worry about the shipping. Hopefully the local hydro shop will have something similar without charging me an arm and a leg. I've also realized that even with venting the hot air into the next room, the closet is still building up too much heat. So once I've got the bigger fan on the out take, I'll be punching another hole in the wall and using the 80cfm to blow air from the bedroom directly into the tent.

Reservoir temps are still too high - 82 as of this morning - despite setting up my cooler again. In all honesty, the res temps are the biggest concern. I can live with high ambient temps as long as the reservoir stays cool enough to allow the plants to drink and eat. I think my next step will be to take some of the extra mylar I've got left over from last grow and cover the top of the reservoir. Hopefully that, along with the extra ventilation, will solve my problem.

Fortunately, other than the light burn, the plants are tolerating the high temps well. No sign of nute problems yet, and they've put on some solid growth in the three days that the HPS has been in there. As soon as I've got my temps stabilized I'll be topping both plants, and maybe taking a couple of extra cuttings off the larger plant as well. I'd love to get two more "production" plants growing, along with one or two mothers.

If I can't take the extra cuttings, I'll just have to go with the mothers. By the time the production plants are ready to harvest all my mothers should be in full swing. So grow #4 can be a 6 plant SoG type grow with clones. That should cut my turn around time significantly heh.

[tmarin]

Yeah 80 CFM isn't gonna do much for a 400 watt light. Especially if you're running the ducting a long distance or have a lot of turns/angles in the ducting. I've got a 265 cfm fan for my 400 hps and it keeps my closet nice and cool. But its only pulling air about 4 ft from the air cooled hood. If you check out the first page of my thread you can see my vent setup. Notice how short the distance is between the fan and the light, so that you don't use as much ducting. I really think that makes a big difference in how much heat your fan pulls out of the closet.

Good luck bud, once you get the ventilation squared away you should be set.

[SmknVTEC]

Originally Posted by pokerfiend

Lucas formula measures 3 different types of nutes used in the general hydroponics series. Believe it goes grow micro bloom ( i could have micro and bloom switched up) but the formula is parts of each type of nutrient not npk.

Originally Posted by Help_Needed

You're misreading the numbers. The 0-8-16 (or whatever) refers to the ratio between the three bottles of standard GH nutes - FloraGrow, FloraMicro, and FloraBloom. All three bottles have some nitrogen in them, although the FloraGrow is almost pure nitrogen. The reason that Lucas doesn't use the FloraGrow in his formula is because marijuana requires so much magnesium and calcium. By the time you've added in enough FloraMicro and FloraBloom to meet your plant's cal/mag requirements, you've also got enough nitrogen in there form the too.

OK Guys, thanks.

[Help_Needed]

Well, I ended up buying a 280cfm squirrel cage fan yesterday afternoon. I've got that venting out into the bathroom. It does a great job of lowering the temps...as long as the exhaust duct stays attached. Sometime during the night it popped off, and the temps were back up to 93 this morning. As soon as I reattached it, they started dropping.

Unfortunately the fan has created a new problem - noise. The sound of the air blowing through the duct into the bathroom is quite noticeable. Since my bathroom is also connected to the main bathroom via a jack-and-jill tub area, there's a solid chance that my sister might notice. So this afternoon, I'll have to change things around. I'll exhaust into my bedroom and use the vent in the bathroom for intake.

The plants are still growing well, but they're also showing a bit of heat stress. Hopefully I can get things fixed this afternoon, so I can top the plants and get the clones going this weekend.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Good idea switching the vent from the bathroom to your room, glad you got the new fan too. An ice probe is probably your only hope at this point at lower the rez temps... Lots of progress though- great job man!!!

[Help_Needed]

Originally Posted by Mr.GoodStuff

An ice probe is probably your only hope at this point at lower the rez temps

The only problem with an ice probe or any other mechanical means of lowering the res temps is that they'll pump the extra heat back into the room (aka closet). Which will make it that much more difficult to maintain the amient temps. If I can get the hydro hut ambient temps down into the low 80's then the ice chest that I used last grow will do the job perfectly. I just need to get some empty soda bottles gathered up and freeze them.

[jcommerce]

[quote=Help_Needed;1979412]

I'll exhaust into my bedroom and use the vent in the bathroom for intake.

quote]


Won't that make your room (and condo eventually) stink when those babies really get growing?

[Help_Needed]

Originally Posted by jcommerce

Won't that make your room (and condo eventually) stink when those babies really get growing?

Well, it would if I hadn't already addressed odor mitigation during my last grow. I've got a small ozone generator that completely eliminates all of the odor. Last time I just set it up in the closet I was using as a grow area. This time I can just park it buy the exhaust duct. It also does a great job of eliminating the smell of marijuana smoke .

Since I've had to set up formal ducting for ventilation, I might also look into a carbon scrubber. But I honestly don't think I'll have to with the ozone generator.