Third time's the charm - femmed white widow in hydro

[SmknVTEC]

Yeah, maybe when they poke through you might put them in soil for while you are gone. Or you can just submerge the cubes in enough water to last but that is a little more tricky.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Sorry to hear about your grandma bro... And the dog eating two sprouts... I've been hearing horror stories involving dogs and weed lately. Such destructive animals they can be...

Love the new hut bro, really clean. Definitely looks a lot more like you know what you are doing now, very impressive. That setup should be perfect for the 400 watt light too. Can't wait to see the results! Are you going to veg with the HPS? I hope? I wish I could lend you this 400 watt metal halide conversion bulb that is just collecting dust now!

[Help_Needed]

Originally Posted by Mr.GoodStuff

I've been hearing horror stories involving dogs and weed lately. Such destructive animals they can be

Ya know, I have to give the little beast credit. Considering he's from a very dominant breed (yeah, miniature pinschers really do have dominance issues lol), he's actually very good natured and well behaved. I never have the least bit of problems with him tearing stuff up. But his obsession for weed has approached true addict level. This morning I opened the door to get a shirt and some slacks for work. In the time it took me to carry them to the bed and turn around to close the door, he was already inside looking for a snack lol.

Love the new hut bro, really clean. Definitely looks a lot more like you know what you are doing now, very impressive. That setup should be perfect for the 400 watt light too. Can't wait to see the results! Are you going to veg with the HPS?

Absolutely. I will have them on CFL's for the first week or two until they start to veg out well, and then switch to the HPS. I almost bought a MH conversion bulb when I bought the lights, but the HPS bulb that came with the set up is a broad spectrum type that's designed specifically for growing, so I figured I could save some much needed cash and still get good results.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Good thinking, you're right. The HPS might even cause more growth than a MH, it's just they like the blue light a lot more from what I've seen. When given a choice of what light source to lean to- from what I've seen they like to lean towards the blue light before the red.

Still need to do some experiments but from what I've read HPS is a great all-around bulb so definitely stick with that!

[Help_Needed]

Well, my two surviving plants have rooted through the plugs so I went ahead and planted them in the hydro tank. The nute solution is very week ~225ppm to start with. That's even weaker than Lucas recommends for seedlings but, like I've said, I heard that WW is more nute sensitive than most. Plus since I won't be here to check on them, I want to give them just enough to keep them alive.

The fifth seed never did sprout. It looked like it cracked open, but that was as far as it got. So I'm modifying my plan just a touch. I was already planning on topping the plants for this grow to try to increase my yield. I'm still going to do that, but I'll root the tops as well so I can get back up to 4 plants. Smart, huh? .

Hey Help_Needed looks like I found your new thread too

Very sorry to hear about your loss, it is always a shock when a family member goes, no matter how 'prepared' we are for it.

That hut looks great and I have a felling I might even abandon my home-made cab and get one of these for my next grow.

I'm tuned in, best of luck man!

[Help_Needed]

Looks like my two plants survived my absence . They're working on their second set of leaves and growing strong.

I was kind of worried about the water level dropping too low while I was gone, but I guess little plants just don't drink much.

Nute strength is a tad bit stronger than what I was aiming for. It's currently at 360ppm. I guess maybe my math was off. It doesn't seem to be bothering the plants at all, though. I'll probably increase it to "normal" Lucas Formula seedling strength - 470ppm - in a couple of days.

pH has been a bit unstable, but that maybe due to the fact that I forgot that distilled water tends to be really sensitive to pH adjusters. There just aren't enough nutes in the water yet to really buffer the pH so when I adjusted it down on the initial fill up I overdid it just a touch. But not too bad, though. pH was at 5.2 this morning, so I added a wee bit of pH UP to bring it back into optimal range.

[Help_Needed]

The plants are doing well and have begun working on their third set of leaves. I've added additional nutes to the reservoir to bring it up to 470ppm, which is the Lucas recommended strength for young plants.

Once the third leaf set is all the way in I'll hook up the HPS and get some more pics.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

It's crazy when you blast them with that HPS you are able to double the amount of food. Totally looking forward to when you get that baby up and running!

What's the pH doing? Not staying steady or did you just use to much pH down and had to adjust it back up?

[Help_Needed]

Originally Posted by Mr.GoodStuff

What's the pH doing? Not staying steady or did you just use to much pH down and had to adjust it back up?

Well, "not staying steady" is a relative term. It's not quite as rock steady as it was in the second half of my last grow, but it's nothing like the problems I had in the first few weeks. I mean the pH got all the way down to 5.2 while I was gone . And this morning it was a terrifying 5.9 .

Mostly I think it's really just a matter getting the new batch of solution stabilized and remembering that there aren't enough nutes in there to buffer the pH when I make changes. So a little pH Down goes a long ways lol. I'm sure once that's happened it'll be back to no movement like before.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Ah, I get what you are saying. Just not as optimum as normal, the solution had to stabilize. Gotcha.

For going on vacation with a non-stabilized solution that's pretty damn awesome!

[Help_Needed]

The Help_Needed grow curse has struck again lol.

The plants are still growing strong. It's really interesting to see the difference between these white widows and that last blueberry/haze cross. The indica is much more dominant in this strain, despite the fact that the last strain was supposed to be 70% indica. So I have short, squat little plants with broad leaves. They're only on their fourth set of leaves and one of them is already putting out secondary branches.

But they're also both showing some minor problems, maybe left over from my unplanned trip out of town last week. The larger of the two is showing signs of some light/heat stress, and I haven't even hooked up the HPS yet. It did grow within a couple of inches of the CFL while I was gone, but I wouldn't have thought it was close enough to cause problems. The other one is showing some cal/mag deficiency spotting.

In both cases the damage is limited to the first two leaf sets, so I'm thinking the problems are just left over from having to leave them unattended in an unstabilized setup for three days. I will be watching them closely, especially the one showing deficiency. Cal/mag deficiency was a problem late in my last grow too. FWIW, I know that some other growers have also noted this deficiency with the Lucas Formula with some strains and there's a modified Lucas Formula that adds in Cal-Mag to prevent that problem. I may need to switch to the modified version with this grow.

Whatever the case, it sure seems that these Widows are a lot less tolerant of sub-optimal environments that the other strain.

Otherwise...
pH is at 5.7 and stable .
Reservoir temps are around 73.
Nute concentration has been increased to 490ppm @0.5, both to address the deficiency and to get them into full veg mode.
The HPS will go up either tonight or tomorrow now that the plants are vegging nicely.

Pics.....someday

[Mr.GoodStuff]

What's up brother! Good to see ya!

The deficiencies showing in the Lucas formula happen because people don't feed at the recommended strength. They try to go light and that's when the deficiencies show. If you feed them at the correct strength and do not try to go light on them, you shouldn't have any problems. There is enough calcium and magnesium in the formula but only at the recommended strength. That's why he recommends not stepping up the strength and just giving the plant 2.0 EC in HID light regardless of it's age or size. In your case it's a little bit more complicated because you are using CFL's- from what he says it's OK to use 1.6 EC but that might be better for stronger floro light like T-5s. 1.0 EC might be best for veg for you. Start with that and step up by 100 PPM every week until you see tip burn. This is only so you can find out the most you can feed them- which will result in the most growth naturally. It's not to prevent burns- only to find out how much you can feed them in veg. But don't go lower than 1.0 EC in veg under floros, that's the only way they are going to get enough of that cal/mag they are missing.

The modified Lucas formula using cal/mag is for Pure Blend Pro- not Flora series or Nova. The Flora series and Nova has it all- some like it stronger, some weaker- but that's it.

Ask Lucas though, he'll tell you what is happening better than I can... I'm just a parrot right now for him LOL

[Help_Needed]

Originally Posted by Mr.GoodStuff

The deficiencies showing in the Lucas formula happen because people don't feed at the recommended strength.

Ah. That could be the problem then. Since I had to leave and since I've heard from several sources that WW is nute sensitive, I started them out at about 2/3 the recommended "young plant" strength. I bumped them up to full "young plant" strength (0-4-8) on Monday, and bumped them up to full veg strength (0-5-10) this morning. Hopefully that will take care of the cal/mag problem.

That's why he recommends not stepping up the strength and just giving the plant 2.0 EC in HID light regardless of it's age or size.

Hmmm...I'm reading this and wondering if I've got an older or outdated copy of the formula to work with. The version I have has three recommended strenghts - one for seedlings, one for full veg, and one for flowering. Do you have something more recent (besides wading through the 300 some-odd pages of his "ask Lucas" thread? LOL).

In your case it's a little bit more complicated because you are using CFL's- from what he says it's OK to use 1.6 EC but that might be better for stronger floro light like T-5s.

CFL's go bye bye this weekend anyhow, so that'll solve the problem. The only reason I didn't hook up the HPS last night is that I didn't realize the can-fan I bought from Home Depot needed to have a pigtail wired in to it. Got the pigtail now and will get it all set up in the next day or two.

The modified Lucas formula using cal/mag is for Pure Blend Pro- not Flora series or Nova. The Flora series and Nova has it all- some like it stronger, some weaker- but that's it.

Naw...I actually don't think this is something that Lucas has put out. It's something someone else worked up based of the Lucas Formula. The guy's a well respected grower on another forum and this modified formula has gotten raves from everyone who's used it. It's a bit more complicated than the basic Lucas, but still seems to preserve a lot of it's advantages. http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponi...rt-calmag.html

Ask Lucas though, he'll tell you what is happening better than I can... I'm just a parrot right now for him LOL

Hey...that's MY line lol. Naw, parroting is good, actually. It's one of the ways we learn, and it keeps poor saps like me from having to spend forever searching through a bunch of information .

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Weird... I've heard of modified versions but if you have to change the rez I don't have eyes for it. Larger yeilds I could give a crap about at this point... I'm looking for simple, easy, and effective. I've drove myself crazy trying to increase yeild... It's more important to me to just make it easy at this point. I'll just grow more plants thank you LOL

The Lucas formula I have goes like this-

2.0 EC in veg and flower under HID

1.6 EC in veg and flower under floro

This is what Lucas recommends. 0-8-16 under HID 0-5-10 under floro. I found the 0-5-10 to be too strong for my plants in veg so I reduced it to something around 0-3-6 or so (1.0 EC) and the plants flourished.

Some like it stronger- some weaker. The way you find out is you feed at the recommended strength and then react to what the girls tell you. If too strong, reduce the amount- if not strong enough increase it little by little until you see tip burn and then back off.