Help_Needed's first grow - second attempt

[Help_Needed]

Another one of my babies has decided to be weird. It's growing all lopsided - the leaves on the right side of the plant are twice as big as the matching leaves on the other side. And they're kind of twisted up too. I've ruled out heat/lighting burns, nutes (300ppm and the other plants are loving it), and pH (5.8). The only thing left is genetics or some sort of non-visible plant damage.

Whatever the case, this plant has helped me make a decission. I got rid of the soil portion of my grow. I got rid of the mutant plant and replaced it with the strongest of the two that were in soil. Got rid of the last soil plant as well (it had gone leggy from lack of light, anyway).

I think this will work out for the best. I can concentrate my energies on keeping the hydro grow going. And really, nine plants was way too many for my needs anyway. Hell, six plants is really too many....assuming they don't all end up male again lol.

I'll try to post some pics tonight.

P.S. For those who were curious, the hydro grown plants are already twice as big as the soil grown ones. In fact the last seedling that I added into the hydro (the one that sprouted almost 5 days after the others) is already the same size as the two soil grown seedlings.

[Help_Needed]

Down to just these 6 girls. Really need to get the lighting arranged better though, since at least one of them has developed a bit of a lean. There's ENOUGH lights (at least for now) but they're not situated exactly over each plant. I've got the stuff to fix it. Just need the roommate to leave for a couple of hours lol.

The largest two plants were among the first four to sprout. The very small one is the latecomer. She sprouted almost 4 days later than all the rest AND she's been in soil for a couple of days after that.

[Help_Needed]

A couple of the leaves on my plants are taking on a bit of a yellowish cast, so I've done some research. One of the problems with growing hydro is that most of your nute programs are designed for legal plants and not specifically for MJ. With some help from the people on this board (thanks everyone ) I've decided to use the Lucas Formula on my grow and am in the process of adjusting my nutes accordingly.

Currently my solution was at 280ppm. Lucas formula suggests I should be at 473ppm for seedlings and 592ppm for veg. Using his formula, I've added enough nutes to push the solution up to about 380ppm. I'll push it all the way up to 473 on Friday. Once all of my plants have started their third leaf set, I'll push them the rest of the way up to 592.

***********

Also, I finally got my lighting situation straightened out. Due to heat issues, I'm going to have to continue using CFL's. So I build a light board. I mounted 6 fixtures on a 2x2 piece of plywood and wired them together. Right now I've got a single 32w CFL stationed directly over each plant. As they get further into veg, I'll add a Y-socket to each fixture so I can get two bulbs over each plant. Before anyone says anything - I know I should paint the board white. I just didn't have time today.

[Help_Needed]

Checked my TDS tonight, more as a formality than anything, and got a bit of a shock. My target when I increased my nutes last night was 380ppm. Tonight the measurement came in at 520ppm!! So I went back and re-read the Lucas formula info.

Unfortunately it looks like I misunderstood what the numbers meant. So when I calculated how much nute solution to add to the res, I used the base number for the 0-8-16 flowering ratio instead of the 0-4-8 seedling ratio. In short I added twice as much solution as I should have.

Fortunately 520ppm is only a tad too hot for seedlings, and with the exception of the little late-sprouter, none of the plants is really a seedling any more. So I'm sure they'll be fine.

I'll probably push the solution up to the full 0-5-10 ratio for full veg sometime this weekend, assuming the little plant continues to do well.

[Help_Needed]

No, not completely lol.

But based on some input from Ganja Guerilla in http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plan...dro-setup.html I've learned that simply topping of my reservoir with new nutes per the Lucas Formula does NOT work unless the reservoir was originally started out with the Formula. Despite the fact that my ppm's were about right, my nute ratios were out of wack and my darlings all developed a significant phosphorus deficiency.

So today I had a wonderful time completely draining my reservoir and refilling it with the correct nute formula. I actually wanted to do it yesterday, but Murphy's Law struck. Yesterday was the first Saturday in two months that my roommate didn't go into work lol. Fun times, I'll tell ya.

Also, the new plant that I added to the hydro unit to replace the non-thriving plant has also shown some really slow growth. Since both plants are in exactly the same slot on the tank I suspect that the issue may be related to my set up rather than the plant. Ganja noted that my system was splashing nute solution directly onto the leaves and suggested that this might be causing the slow growth. The drip tube has been repositioned and I've arranged some clay pebbles around the opening of the tube to act as a water break. Hopefully this will get the little girl going again.

[Help_Needed]

So this is a lesson in what NOT to do in a hydro system

So, on Sunday I changed out the solution in the reservoir. Filled it all up with the correct nutrient proportions. Checked the pH - a happy 5.6 - and the ppm - 590 on the nose - and called it a day.

Checked the pH yesterday morning - it was sitting at 6.2. No big deal. I've already noticed that the pH tends to climb as the plants eat and adjusting it is fairly routine. A little pH Down does the trick nicely.

Last night I checked again. The pH was at 3.2! WTF??? It was 9 o'clock at night. The grow store was closed. So I did what any newb grower would do - I panicked. I remembered that baking soda can be used in a pinch to raise pH, but I had no idea how much to add. So I threw a teaspoon full into a glass of distilled water and looked at the pH - 8.0. I figured that wasn't nearly high enough to bring the pH up, so I added 3 more teaspoons. Still 8.0. Then I realized that 8.0 was probably the native pH of baking soda so I stopped and then poured the mixture into the reservoir. An hour after dumping the shit into my tub, the pH was sitting at 7.2. So I added some more pH Down.

Apparently baking soda can absorb a LOT of acid. This morning the pH was sitting at 6.4, so I added more pH Down. And needless to say my ppm is fucked. It's sitting at 720ppm, which is way high, probably due to residual baking soda floating around in the mix. And then the icing on the cake - as I'm driving into work this morning I remember WHY baking soda isn't preferred. It's a SALT.

You know, I really wish I could blame this on being stoned, but I have yet to actually get my hands on any weed (honestly haven't been trying all that hard though).

So, as of now, I've stopped at the grow store during lunch. Bought new bottles of GH FloraMicro and FloraBloom, as well as a new bottle of pH Up (yeah, the real thing this time). Assuming there's anything left alive in my garden when I get home, I'll be draining the reservoir and starting over...again.

Oh yeah, I asked the guy at the grow store about the sudden pH drop that started all this mess. He said it's fairly normal. He speculated that there were some salts and such built up around the roots of the plant and maybe in the bottom of the reservoir as well. When I filled the tub back up, those salts were released back into the solution which messed up the pH. If I'd had the right stuff, I could have corrected it easily...but hey, I'm a newb lol.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Ya the ph can be a nightmare in hydro for sure... I dont like it at all.

The only thing I can think of is you used too much ph down and didn't stir the reservoir enough to get an even reading at first. It takes practice to learn to adjust the solution right. Just be patient and take it slow, you'll get the hang of it.

I know I've had my nightmares with ph adjustment before... When I bought an R/O one drop of ph down would take a gallon down to the low 3s. I had to throw out a couple gallons of nutrient because I didn't need to adjust the ph before I added nutrient. I hate putting in ph adjuster and the ph goes down too low and you have to rinse out the fucking eyedropper and start over with ph up... I can't wait until I can afford a ph controller- a dream for me my friend!

[Help_Needed]

Originally Posted by Mr.GoodStuff

The only thing I can think of is you used too much ph down and didn't stir the reservoir enough to get an even reading at first.

Yeah, it's very possible. I found myself wondering if maybe I accidentally used the tablespoon instead of the teaspoon when I measured it out. I'm using an air-driven DWC-drip system, though, and figured that waiting for a couple of hours would have allowed enough time for the air to mix everything up.

Ah well, live and learn (I hope lol).

[Mr.GoodStuff]

Ya you gotta stir it for sure, that's one of the reasons I thought of a seperate reservoir design for bubble buckets, although I found out it had already been thought of and with an aeration technique better than anything I could have thought of. You need to be able to adjust the reservoir without messing with the plants somehow because you need to stir the solution and pouring acid directly into the reservoir the roots are in didn't sit well with me either. It can be done, but I'm sure it isn't easy.

I'm sure the plants are fine- marijuana is an amazing survivor. I have Kush clones that didn't root for a month, were burned with Clonex on top of it- and now have been transplanted into a new medium and are doing fine. It's amazing they aren't dead.

[Help_Needed]

Originally Posted by Mr.GoodStuff

Ya you gotta stir it for sure, that's one of the reasons I thought of a seperate reservoir design for bubble buckets, although I found out it had already been thought of and with an aeration technique better than anything I could have thought of.

Ooh! Tell me more? Or have a link?

I'm actually thinking about using a small fountain pump to circulate the solution through a cooler filled with ice water to help with my reservoir temp issue. This would also increase the speed at which the solution circulates through the reservoir and will make it easier to drain everything the next time I fuck up....I mean when the grow is done and I want to start over . But having a seperate reservoir with a DWC? How does that work?

And thanks for all the input. I was beginning to wonder if anyone was even reading this thing lol.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

That is a brilliant idea for a home-made water chiller. Very cool, although it will be some work keeping the ice up.

I've attached the designs I came up with myself with no idea that people had already invented it. The third one is the final design I have that is identical to a "bio-bucket" setup. It uses a waterfall to aerate the water! Brokencage told me about the technique when I showed him my idea for the river system. Now I am going to build a river system with waterfall aeration- which is essentially a bio-bucket but with a cooler name. LOL I'll be using lava rocks too most likely, so it will be a bio-bucket just I'll call it different.

It is a really, really cool design though that I feel very lucky to have now. I have only the City to thank too.

What do you think?

First design

http://forum.grasscity.com/attachmen...chmentid=75988

Second design, wanted more water movement in the root zone

http://forum.grasscity.com/attachmen...chmentid=75989

Third and final design- sacrificed more water movement for waterfall aeration, will also prevent the roots from clogging the fill and/or drain line and fucking the whole system up.

http://forum.grasscity.com/attachmen...chmentid=77983

You can search "recirculating bubblers" or "bio buckets" and see pictures of the same designs. I wish I had pictures of an actual setup... But I will after this weekend, I'm building a few mini river systems to put the Kush and new Haze in.

[Help_Needed]

Originally Posted by Mr.GoodStuff

That is a brilliant idea for a home-made water chiller. Very cool, although it will be some work keeping the ice up.

It's the only idea I can come up with that WON'T add to the heat inside the closet lol. Yeah it'll be a bit of a pain changing out the ice, but I'm guessing I'll just need to do that twice a day.

I've attached the designs I came up with myself with no idea that people had already invented it....What do you think?

I definately like the idea. I'm not sure how I'd adapt it to the set up I've got, since I've got a store-bought system. Having a seperate reservoir for mixing nutes and then using that to keep the main res topped off has a lot of appeal. I might be able to rig something up using a 5 gallon bucket though. Having the extra water circulation will also really help on ensuring accurate pH and ppm readings.

Hmmm...thinking out loud here....If I've got an external reservoir, I don't need the monitor/drain line. I could pump the water out of the main res into the bucket via the monitor/drain hole and then use gravity to feed from the bucket back into the main res via the fill/test hole that's in the top. When I turned the pump off, I'd have an accurate view of how much water to add. Ya know, I think I need to head to Home Depot lol.

[Help_Needed]

Changed out the nutes again tonight. Before refilling the reservoir I flushed each plant and the tank with straight distilled water. PPM is at 590 and the pH is at 5.3. Yes, pH is a bit low, but I'm going to wait until at least tomorrow morning before I mess with it to give the nutes time to settle in.

I've also gotten the bucket, pump, and tubing to start the second reservoir. Unfortunately I did *not* buy enough water to fill it lol. So I'll be setting that up tomorrow. My original plan to use the monitor/drain line won't work because of the pump design so both intake and outflow will have to feed from the top of the main hydro unit...which is actually probably easier anyway.

The plants are definately showing some nute damage . Leaves are curling and I somehow lost one entire fan leaf on the biggest plant. Curled up like it'd been put in a dehydrator. I'm guessing it was the salts from the baking soda. Hopefully all my babies will recover.

[Mr.GoodStuff]

I'm sure they will recover. You will be amazed at the damage they can take and recover from! That is the amazing thing about learning to grow marijuana- when you are learning you see how strong the plant is and you learn to respect it more because of it's strength. Something happens and you don't freak out because the plant is so strong.

[Help_Needed]

Things look like they're back to normal. pH was at 6.1 today. Added 3 teaspoons of pH Down which should bring it down to 5.6ish.

Took some pics too. The nute damage is pretty obvious. Am happy to say that the runt has finally decided to grow a bit now that I got the drip line situated so it's not dripping directly on the plant.