Urgr8estfear 3rd fluro/HPS soil grow

[johnnyblizo]

Do you use 3 liter pots for your whole grow or do you transplant into bigger ones at some point. I'm using 1.5 gal pots at the moment and just wondering if I need to go bigger at some point. Ive been told to goto 3 gallons or even up to 5 gallons. That would be great if I could keeep em where they're at. Thanx.

[urgr8estfear]

@mngrnsmokinkng1

Thanks buddy! While I still consider myself a bit wet behind the ears, it's good to know I'm helping other people fix/prevent problems they are having/might have.

@johnnyblizo

Yes I'm sticking with the 0.8 gallon pots this grow.
I tried 3 gallons on my first grow, 10 gallons on the second and now for a quickie in smaller pots.

As I understand it, MJ stops growing roots during flowering and since flowering my plants now there seems little use to repotting them.

I think the main problem with pots too small is in the vegging stage.
If you get rootbound in the vegging stage new growth will slow down.
A X amount of roots can only uptake a Y amount of water and nutes in a certain amount of time regardless how big the tree is that stands on top.

Also if the pots used are too small you may need to water more then once a day and then things get tricky, especially with tap water salts will build up faster on a smaller clump of soil then on a big one.
The ratio between total water added and soil goes awry.

In my previous grow the 10 gallon pots I watered once a week.
During this grow I must water once a day during heatwaves so I think I'm pushing it here and I wouldn't recommend go for less then a 1 gallon pot IF and only IF you are VEGGING for two weeks or less.
31 days after sticking the seeds in the soil I went to 12/12 so my plants were very small still when I did that : 2 weeks for germinating and seedling stage, 2 weeks for vegging.

If you go for 1, 2 or 3 months of vegging a bigger pot is a must.
I read your most recent grow thread, I couldn't find exactly how old those cloned plants are but I guess 3 to 5 gallons for a 1 to 2 month old is OK.

[SmknVTEC]

Hey man I just got this stuff except in pH down http://www.shamanshop.net/store/prod...045.0/file.htm
It is kind of expensive but is meant for growing. You could also try the powder. It is cheaper and works in soil not in hydro. http://www.shamanshop.net/store/prod...045.0/file.htm
$12 to me is not all that unreasonable. If you don't like those you can go to a pet store and get some pH up in the fish section.

[auggystyle]

Originally Posted by urgr8estfear

Allright.
Epsom salt is added in accordance with my own reasoning and calculations as described in the link in my previous post.

15 grams of MgSO4.7H2O on 2 liters of water divided over my three plants.
I checked the pH before adding it to the plants.

15 grams of Epsom Salt makes my 2 liters of tap water drop from pH 8.0 to pH 7.5 which is acceptible.

Now lets see how the plants like it!

thats your problem right there...the ph is too high...8.0 is extremely high, you should be around 6.5 in soil....you're probably having nute lock out

[SmknVTEC]

Wait a minute.
His RUN-OFF pH is 5.0. Therefore giving it 7.5-8.0 water is about what it would take to raise it back to 6.5.

[urgr8estfear]

DAY 058 (day 26 of 12/12 under HPS)

Ofcourse you are all wondering 'did his plants keel over already from the pH 9.0 chalk laden water bludder thingy abuse'?
Well....no, they're are still standing strong.
I removed all the nasty brown leaves right after I gave 'em the pH 9.0 chalk laden water bludder thingy abuse.
I noticed how these leaves also had the brown spots with white circles on them, so the spots could be pH related after all. (mygreatestfear is a bug infestation!)
No new brown leaves have formed.
Let's make sure it stays that way.

I did get a few extra brown spots with white circles around them though (see above), all on the same plant as before. Where there were 3 spots 3 days ago I now have 8.
Not really fast moving damage but still, something's up.

I actually found two bugs in the growbox. Something that looks like a really big fat mosquito which I killed on sight, and a dead ladybug.
Both corpses are added to the pot of the plant with brown spots for some charms.

I'm quite happy. Two of my plants are doing quite well :

First off my TMV plant :


Then my favorite not a cloud in the sky plant :


And finally the plant which was topped :


I haven't seen any 'crystal' production yet. But I guess it's too soon and the first two plants look like they will produce some serious nugs, lotsa pistils hairs there.

Tomorrow I'll water, check the pH, measure plant height and rip a brown spotted leaf of the plant which has them to look at it with ample light and magnification. Just to be sure.
Have a nice toke!

[Canabudz]

look like there was never anything wrong with em i really like the shape of the middle one. perfect. thats going to be one phallic cola haha

[PurpleStuffed]

Looks great! you going for that giant single main cola Sativa.. Nice.....

[urgr8estfear]

@PurpleStuffed : More like giant Indica cola. For some reason I don't understand these plants (NL/BB) made leaves with more a Sativa-like look after I induced flowering.

On day 59, I measured plant height again : 85, 90 and 91 cms.
pH little over 5 (kinda hard to see with this aquarium pH kit) it's been four days since the chalk was added. I checked one of the affected leaves under a telescope eyepiece.
I still cannot find any creepy crawlies on it.....that's good.

DAY 061 (day 29 of 12/12 under HPS)

Much the same story as 3 days ago really.
2 plants are doing fine, 1 is not : again more brown spots and browned leaves.
I can't help but wonder if somehow the topping of this not-so-fine plant has something to do with it's symptoms.
Could I possibly have introduced a pathogen into this plant, making it unforgiving for soil issues?
Could it be that this troubled plant is more severly rootbound because it got topped?
More pH measurements (and maybe actions) will follow.







It appears the two pinched plants are starting to lute the lower leaves for nutes.
Isn't it a bit early for that with only 30 days of 12/12?
There should be sufficient nutes in the soil.
Can it be I get these symptoms early because these plants are (maybe) rootbound and in pots too small for their size?

The plants now measure 86,91 and 94 cms so the stretching is slowing down.

[SmknVTEC]

I can tell you one thing for sure urgr8est, pH levels in the 5's for soil is no good. It is most likely contributing to the spots. Since all of your grows have had pH issues may I suggest a digital pH pen. Until I got mine, I had no idea how off my pH was from what I thought it was and what I interpreted it was from matching this vague color here to this vague color there.

[urgr8estfear]

Yeah a proper pH meter is definately on my wish list.
But I'm kinda low on money here, so it will have to wait....a while.
Do you know a cheap, reliable, easy to use and easily obtainable digital pH meter to recommend?
I've read most cheap pH meters are shit, and even some expensive ones that are horrible.

I've had a few 'o shit' moments today.
I have flushed the plants with 10 liters of ph 8 water per each 3 liter pot.
(Ganja Guerrilla is gonna go bananas over this!)
I've done this because the plant with funny spots and brown leaves looks like it needs help today and not next week, and the chalk is not kicking in fast enough for it to live until harvest I figured.

So I've spent nearly 2 hours doing pH measurements and flushing the plant.
The pH went up from around pH 5 to around pH 6.
So that's all good.
It gave me a lot of time, while waiting for the water to run through, to look at my plants.
And then there was 'o shit' moment number 1:

Ahhhh! 9 green eggs! Big ones too!
And it's on one of my healthy looking plants.
So I've searched through the all three plants for maybe 30 minutes.
Guess what?
No mamma!
Hmmm that's weird.
Eggs but no mamma!
Search the plants again.....still no mamma!
Grrrrrrrrrrrrr......

So I put the plants back into the growbox, being content mamma isn't around and pH being 6, then from the corner of my eye I see something hiding in a corner of my growbox, 'o shit' moment number 2:


Ahhhh! Mommy! (around 1/2 a inch big)
I've only seen one of those in my entire lifetime and that was two weeks ago, also in my house but 1 floor down.
It's a Lygocoris Pabulinus or common green capsid.
Supposedly these freaks feed on fruit trees and guess what?
They can cause 'funny brown' spots with leaves turning brown/black on bushes, they're called 'feeding points'.

So I now figure, mommy capsid was feeding on one plant and laying eggs onto the other. (I'm not sure why mommy capsid spared the second 'healthy' plant on which I could not find any eggs but maybe these things are just being methodical)

Time for payback : I captured the capsid and carefuly removed the leaf with eggs and ahhhh relief :

Now this capsid knows better then to mess with my girls!
Well....actually it only knew that for a few second before it died...but I felt better afterwards anyway!

Have a nice toke!

p.s. : capsids stink REALLY bad when you kill them slowly. this is the reason others insects (e.g. : my guardian spiders) let them be.

[HiTCheR]

that son-of-a-bitch! i guess he wont be laying any more eggs now will he! HAHAHAHAHAHHA! HAHAHAHHHA!


HAH!!!!! Die................

[SmknVTEC]

Holy crap, what a day. LoL.
I can recommend a good meter. Don't jerk around with the BS meters out there. Just get the digital Hanna meter. It is an all in one pH, PPM, EC, Temp, meter and it is floatable ie waterproof.

It costs a pretty penny $169
http://www.shamanshop.net/store/prod...045.0/file.htm
but saving up for it or receiving it as a gift is well worth it. I just bought one myself. Learned as lot like I said such as how off my color matching was.

[PurpleStuffed]

Looking good as usual.... keep it up man!!!!!

[urgr8estfear]

@SmknVTEC, yeah those Hanna all-in-one meters look really cool and handy.
But the pricing is OUCH, 170 Euros here in the Netherlands.
I'm afraid I it will take a while before I have that amount of cash to spare and if I did I'd probably spend it on my kids.
It will have to wait....

DAY 064 (day 32 of 12/12 under HPS)
The flushing and bug killing seems to have payed off.
Two changes I've noticed :

1. Funny brown spots with white circles are developping less fast. (which means there's either a second capsid around, or the spots are symptoms of pH problems)

2. The big fan leaves are taking a hit. Looks like iron deficiency. But I'm holding off any actions for a few days just to make sure it's not because of the big and sudden pH change. I think this is because of the flushing.

The buds are gaining more weight, pistil hairs are plentyful and finally the 'crystals' are starting to appear on them.
It's becoming hard to judge how wet the soil is, the finger in the soil trick doesn't work anymore. The roots have now covered the entire content of the pots, bottom to top.
These plants are definately root bound!
I think it's safe to claim that pinching is superior to topping by now.







And here is a pictures of a big fan leaves turning yellow from the inside out.
Iron deficiency right?



The plants stand 87,93 and 96 cms tall now.
Suggestions (on the iron def. thingy) anyone?