Do Not Order from Stealth Hydroponics

[Unsatisfied C.]

Hello members of Grasscity.com,

[LONG POST WARNING]

I wanted to give a detailed explanation of what has happened to me and the experiences I have had with Stealth Hydroponics. The owners/employees of the company have threatened me with "severe legal action" if I am factually incorrect at any point so I'm "walking on my tiptoes" so to speak.

I have been insulted repeatedly. I have been called a liar, I have been called delusional, dishonest and untrustworthy. I have been called an extortionist and accused of fraud after I told Stealth Hydroponics that I would bring my experiences with them to various online forums if I did not receive my refund cheque. They even sent me used equipment (lights with firing marks, apparently).

Now I want to share my experiences with potential customers so they won't have to undergo the same troubles I have with this company. My online order date was July 28th/2007. My buddy and I had been discussing starting up a little legume company and I immediately went about purchasing materials from the first company I saw online - "Stealth Hydroponics". The order went without a hitch and the customer service was good (in the beginning).

I have completed a timeline for your reading convenience.

August 17th/2007 - My order has not arrived. I send an e-mail asking where it is. I was informed by "Robert" that they had experienced a "facility fire last Tuesday" and lost their stock but that their new warehouse was already up and running and they would send out my material promptly with a freebie. Although I wasn't happy about the fact that they hadn't contacted me regarding the delay, I was happy with the prospect of a freebie since time wasn't a major factor.
August 29th/2007 rolls around and I still have not received my purchase. I send another e-mail to Robert to which I am told that "everything but my water parameter" was shipping out that day.
September 4th/2007 I receive my supplies. I pay an additional $134.55 at the door for the order. This brings my total shipping costs up to ~$284.55 for this company. My original order was $541.97 (so shipping was 53% of my total order price). To be fair, the $134.55 was a Canadian border/import fee or some such but I still found that VERY expensive for some basic lighting and net pots from a company.

I store the purchase in the garage until I can assemble the rest of the required materials after opening the boxes and doing a brief inventory check

September 24th/2007 arrives and the final part of my order FINALLY ships out. I receive an order and dispatch number from Robert. To keep this in perspective - I ordered in late July and my order was not completed for almost two full months. If time had been a serious factor, I would have been very, very screwed.
November 3rd/2007 comes and I realize that I do not have the funds for the accompanying Ballasts, Nutrients, or various other important miscellaneous gardening equipment whose expenses add up quickly. I decide to get a refund on my order. I e-mail Stealth Hydroponics and am replied too by "Kevin" who says "Mail in all returns you wish to make. We will refund accordingly."

This is when it starts to get particularly shady.

November 17th/2007 I send them an email giving them a heads up that my order is on route.
December 3rd/2007 I send another email asking them if they have received my order.
December 5th/2007 Kevin replies that he has not.
December 10th/2007 I inform Kevin that, according to the tracking numbers, they have received two of my three boxes.
December 13th/2007 Kevin informs me that they have received two of the three boxes. Would I like a refund or different products? I respond on the same day that I would like a refund. I send an e-mail to the BBB detailing the events to date. The complaint is received but still needs to be reviewed.
December 17th/2007 I email Stealth Hydroponics again reminding them of the refund. (It was done by credit card so I was waiting for it to show up there). No reply.
December 20th/2007 I email again. No reply.

I am told by the person I asked to send off my refund that part of the order was sent to the wrong address originally on November 17th (it was an honest mistake). The order is eventually returned and I send it off again to the correct address in early January.

February 3rd/2008 I email again. Wondering when I might expect to receive the last of my refund. For clarification - I received a partial refund for the order that DID go to the right address (which took quite a bit of time to arrive to my house). However, once my complaint to the BBB was given to the company, all the efforts I have made at a refund have gone out the window.

Roberts response;

"As you had reported this case to the BBB, the issue has been forwarded to our legal department....Our legal department will be responding with an official written communication, copied to the BBB, containing their review of the issue and should also include any refund checks that may apply this case." "Furthermore, the bulbs that were returned were sent back over 5 months after you initially received them and were sent back in a used state."

To clarify - I never used the lights because I never had a ballast or mogul socket to do so. I simply didn't have the money at the time. Aside from opening the boxes to do an inventory check, they chilled in my garage for several months.

This part is a little longer then the rest (sorry again) but it is kind of essential to the story;

May 31st/2008 I contact Robert again. He now informs me that "products returned after six months are nonrefundable". Keep in mind I only received my order on September 4th and shipped off the very last of it in early January. He references the sites return policy and terms that I agreed too. I will reference it for you.

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6. Customer Returns
Customer returns are based on a good faith effort on the part of the customer returning goods in an unused and restockable condition (note: mine were completely unused and returned in the same packaging I received them in). Items returned in a used state will be subject to a restocking and restoral fee. Return shipping fees are the customer's responsibility and should be fully insured to cover any breakages during return shipping (I paid the return shipping and asked no recompense for it. They were also insured). Broken items will not be refunded.

Return Policy

Your satisfaction is guaranteed! We will work with you to make sure you are satisfied with your Stealth Hydro experience. Stealth Hydro guarantees our products will arrive as offered and in useable condition. Lights are guaranteed for 30 days as long as they are used according to directions and fail during normal use. Returns have to be sent back within 30 days of receiving your package. Returned items not received within 30 days are subject to a restocking fee.

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There is nothing about a six month statute of limitations on the return policy (unless I'm missing something here). I will also add the following arguments Robert has used as an excuse not to issue my refund.

Favorite Robert quotes;

June 1st, 2008
"You are clearly delusional; how many companies do you know that accept returned light bulbs after six months? None that I know of. "

"It is clear to us that you used the bulbs for a harvest or two, then figured you could replace them by getting your money back if you returned them. We are not idiots, and we will not be scammed; which is exactly what you are trying to do. We do not believe you when you tell us otherwise; what reason have you given us to believe anything you say." "We have done nothing illegal; and your "lawyer buddy" is just as delusional as you are if he thinks you have any basis for complaint." "Bottom line, you're not getting a refund. We will be willing to return your items to you if you pay for the return shipping. "

June 2nd.

"Go ahead and post online and ask how many folks have been able to successfully be refunded for light bulbs returned after 6 months; maybe this is the reality check you need. No reasonable person on this planet will agree with your point of view". "The term "Customer Satisfaction" has an implied reasoning. Your demands and resulting threats are completely unreasonable and bordering on delusional". "I will warn you, however, cross the line and post information that is untrue and we will respond with severe legal consequences."
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NEWEST ADDITION

June 3rd

I contact Martin Wiggett (another contact at SH - I discovered his address and information on another forum with other complaints about the company's service) because I suspected that the reason "Robert" was not cutting my cheque was because of the friction in our exchanges. During the fairly reasonable (no threats, no insults) exchange Martin quotes their return policy as an explanation to "Robert's" behavior;
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"6. Customer Returns
Customer returns are based on a good faith effort on the part of the customer returning goods in an unused and restockable condition. Returns must be received with 30 days to qualify for a full refund. Items returned after 30 days and/or in a used state will be subject to a restocking and restoral fee. Orders returned after 60 days will not be refunded. Light bulbs must be returned within 14 days; bulbs returned beyond this period are not refundable. Return shipping fees are the customer's responsibility and should be fully insured to cover any breakages during return shipping. Broken items will not be refunded."
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Do you notice some slight changes from the original customer terms and policy? Fortunately I took dated pictures of the terms and I now have "before" and "after" pictures. I will attempt to post them up just to demonstrate how skeezy this really is.

I've repeatedly suggested to him that he simply cut me my refund cheque so we could let the matter rest but they (I now use "they" because it is now more then one person).

How generous. Keep in mind it cost me approximately $100 to send all the equipment back bringing my total shipping fees to date to ~$384.55. A number that is growing ever closer to the same amount I paid for the products.

I have called the company unprofessional. I have referenced their company's "good nature" as laughable and have said that they are trying to maliciously screw me over because I filed a complaint with the BBB. I have been angry but I am now fairly indifferent. I'm 99% certain that they will not issue my refund cheque unless I take legal action and unless I can find a free way to do so - it is not worth the legal fees. The only action I can take now is to spread "the good word" so others will not make the same mistake I did.

So I warn you now;

DO NOT PURCHASE FROM STEALTH HYDROPONICS

Don't make the same mistake I did.

I have emails detailing everything I've written. Anyone interested in seeing the full story can contact me on the forum with their e-mail and I will forward them.

- One Damned Unsatisfied Customer

[Unsatisfied C.]

Having some trouble attaching the pictures to the original post since I keep getting an error in the upload. Any idea how I would go about this?

[Dark_Angers]

Sounds like they are trying to rip you off. If you find others out there that had similar problems with the company you could launch a law suit against them, and get the others to chip in for lawyer cost. I dunno if the judge would rule in your favor if you also tried to get them to pay your legal fees (the judge might).
Just file complaints and make noise, so your are on record, thus providing better evidence.

[pavlakos]

Hello, this is Robert from Stealth Hydroponics and I would like to make it very clear that this customer is a liar. Deliberately lying to give our company a bad reputation will not be tolerated.

I told you once that we will take legal action if the lies dont stop. I have contacted my lawyer and will be sueing you ASAP. We will continue this in PM if youd like, but you should be recieving a letter and a few phone calls within the next few days.














just kidding man (yes im that bored), sorry to hear your bad experience and ill make sure t6o stay away from them.

[GimmieMore]

Sounds like they suck hard...


Hope you get them shut down.

[Blunt Killa 504]

Originally Posted by pavlakos

Hello, this is Robert from Stealth Hydroponics and I would like to make it very clear that this customer is a liar. Deliberately lying to give our company a bad reputation will not be tolerated.

I told you once that we will take legal action if the lies dont stop. I have contacted my lawyer and will be sueing you ASAP. We will continue this in PM if youd like, but you should be recieving a letter and a few phone calls within the next few days.














just kidding man (yes im that bored), sorry to hear your bad experience and ill make sure t6o stay away from them.

LOL I was believing that up until the end lol!! I was like damn!!!

[Unsatisfied C.]

Originally Posted by pavlakos

Hello, this is Robert from Stealth Hydroponics and I would like to make it very clear that this customer is a liar. Deliberately lying to give our company a bad reputation will not be tolerated.

I told you once that we will take legal action if the lies dont stop. I have contacted my lawyer and will be sueing you ASAP. We will continue this in PM if youd like, but you should be recieving a letter and a few phone calls within the next few days.

That actually did sound exactly like the kind of stuff I've been hearing;

Robert/Stealth Hydroponic quotes;

"I should also take this opportunity to let you know that threatening us in this manner is considered extortion and is considered a crime."

"In order to have any impact with any legal entity or online forum you would have to lie and hide the fact that you are seeking a refund for items returned after half a year of having them in your possession. Should you choose to lie, this will expose you to your own legal problems. Fraud is a serious crime. I suggest you consider your options carefully."

"Just so that you know, Michigan law states that you have 14 days to return items for a refund; beyond that period is not protected by any law. You're trying to fight a losing battle."

"I will warn you, however, cross the line and post information that is untrue and we will respond with severe legal consequences."

"At this point I am going to contact our attorney to see what we can do about the false BBB complaint and if he would recommend any action against you for make flagrant false claims against us."

Oh and just today [June 3rd/08] they called me "a moron" and told me to "do myself a favor" and just "write it off".

Just remember - this is the kind of treatment you will receive if you order from them. By the way - I got the pictures up. Check it out for yourselves.

[Dark_Angers]

See if you can get an interview with http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/index.htm they could come down big on these Stealth guys. A bad report by them is pretty big.

[20fan]

Why didn't you inspect the items upon arrival?

Robert has a point on June 2nd about the bulbs. I personaly would question someone if they waited more than 30 days to return a bulb. I think they have you on that one. Time is going to be your enemy.

I ordered from HTG supply and as soon as I received the package, I inspected everything. One of the flouros had a small crack in it, so I emailed HTG. They sent a replacement within a week, and even though I offered to ship them the broken bulb back, they said not to bother.

You admit that you ordered from the 1st place you found online, why wouldn't you research something like that?
You are talking a lot of money for equipment. You would think you would be a little more cautious. Next time use ebay. That's where a lot of reputable companies are. HTG, Texas Hydro, etc.

Why didn't you order from somewhere in your own country? Seems like you would have saved a lot of $ on shipping charges.

I don't know, you really should have been more careful. I'm not excusing them, they sound like a very unproffesional company, but if you would have searched the forums, BEFORE you ordered from these jokers, you wouldn't be in this situation.

Just think, if you would have taken 15 - 20 minutes to search GC last summer, you would probably already be enjoying your own grow. Looks like you are going to learn an expensive lesson. Don't worry about it too much, everybody gets screwed over at some point in their life. I got burned on my 1st seed purchase. It was only $75, but it still sucked.

Good luck, and welcome to the city. From now on, just use that search button, and you should be fine. There are some DIY threads on here that can save you a lot of money. Get what you can from the assholes at Stealth, and move on. There are plenty of people here that are more than willing to help point you in the right direction.

[collieman11]

pavlakos, youre a fuckin fool. kids legit, nobody would waste this much of their time if they had nothing to prove.

[doob3r]

i have heard nothing but horror storys from these guys, rightfully so, the systems they sale can be made for 30 bucks and thats going all out with lghtproofing the rucking res, ther sellng 5 dollar sterlite containers wth 15 bucks worth of pumps and airstones

[pavlakos]

colllieman, your the fool. i was actually very bored and sober. nothing to prove.

[Zonyc]

Originally Posted by collieman11

pavlakos, youre a fuckin fool. kids legit, nobody would waste this much of their time if they had nothing to prove.

Uhh... I don't get it, did you even read his post?

To the OP, thanks for the heads up, Robert sounds like a tool, and the company sounds even worse. Good luck with these guys, I'm sure they don't even have a "legal department."

[Unsatisfied C.]

WARNING - Kind of long exchange.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm going to be trying to spread this story to as many forums as I possibly can.

20Fan - I do realize that, while I am getting screwed over hardcore - it's my own fault for not researching the company beforehand. Caveat Emptor and all that. Nowadays I just buy in-town products to save this kind of hassle and support local businesses. Any deals I get online are generally nullified by the shipping fees and delivery taxes anyhow.

Also, I did inspect the items when they arrived (did an inventory check before putting them back in the boxes) and didn't notice any markings on any of the lights or anything. I'm working under the assumption that "Robert" or "Martin" or whatever his name is was trying to make up reasons not to issue a full refund.

Last night he openly progressed to calling me "a moron".
============================================

June 3rd/08

"Oh my God, give it up. You just contacted my boss and almost got him to refund you. Then got all pissy with him in your follow up email and screwed yourself. LOL, you're a moron.
Do yourself a favor and write it off and let it go... you're going to give yourself an ulcer."

[Keep in mind this is after his boss tried to change the terms of the return on his site so he wouldn't have to issue a cheque. Plus I'm pretty sure "growguru" and "Martin Wiggett" are the same person, seeing as how Martin e-mailed me at 11pm last night.]

Reply;
"Hey Robert,

Weren't you supposed to be "out" for the next few days and out of contact? Do you usually work on your company e-mail while not being paid to do so?

Yeah, you're right. I was so close to that refund after your "boss" changed the terms of customer returns on the website. Fortunately it makes for a nice "before & after" picture.

Lastly - the vast majority of ulcers are caused by infection rather then stress. As for the "LOL" - well, that's just hilarious. An adult managing a business responding to a customer he's just ripped off for hundreds of dollars calling him a moron and following it up with a hearty LAWL?

Well, that's just OMGROFL!

Seriously though - I'm going to be reporting these exchanges to as many forums as I possibly can.

Later."
-----------------
Robert;

"I am out of the office relaxing at home but my boss called me to discuss your sorry state. So I logged on to see what was up. I'm more than happy to make time for "special cases".
Tell you what, Tommy; if you can find one single company willing to refund you under the same circumstances; i.e. for light bulbs returned roughly six months after the initial transaction, I'll personally send you $1000.

Get a clue!"

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Reply

"You're genuinely happy to have your personal time interrupted in the middle of the afternoon due to business at the office?

Wow. That's um... great. Keep it up.

Tell you what Robby - how about I just keep spreading my personal experiences with your company and let the consumers (who have the potential to spend thousands of dollars at online hydroponic stores) come to their own decisions regarding the professionalism of your customer service and the quality of your products."
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Robert

um.... you think you can affect our business to the tune of thousands of dollars? If you could reach that many people you should spend your time creating your own business.
You're more delusional than I even first imagined.

I hardly consider email sparring with you work at this point; more like a sick form of entertainment... I just keep becoming amazed at what you'll say next.

You want your money back plus some; go ahead take my challenge, find some other company willing to refund you under the same circumstances... I'll give you $1000. I noticed you completely avoided that one.

The funny thing is that your own mouth is what burned you in the end; it takes a lot to piss off my boss and you did that in one email. Then when I explained to him all the other things you said and did he got really pissed and is going to be contacting our lawyer about the BBB thing. At the end of the day, you could be the one out thousands of dollars.

Your friend,

Robby
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[Note the extra legal threat? I've heard them so many times that I've just stopped caring]

Reply

um.... you realize word of mouth is a very effective means of marketing? The fact that I have to explain that is kind of depressing. But then, I really have no clue why any intelligent person would view their business as a means to conduct "email sparring" either. Feel free to explain that and what you possibly hope to gain from continuing this conversation.

Avoiding the $1000? You won't even honor your own website's written policy's and terms. Why *would* I bother seriously addressing it? Also - first it was a legal department then it was an attorney and now it's our lawyer. Which is it, exactly? What's his/her name, business number and e-mail?

I'm really getting too lazy to re-address points I've already brought up and frankly, you're just not worth the effort.
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[Dark_Angers]

Hey I made a digg for you. Hopefully u get the word out to more people.

http://digg.com/business_finance/A_G...e_and_Business