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tednugent · #1 (**permalink**) 02-11-2003, 10:12 PM

Has anybody else out there read the Dune series by Frank Herbert?

If you have, have you thought about how Paul Atreides used religion as a weapon? Osama seems to be doing the same. Both saw the fact that a fierce religious devotion can make followers willing to sacrifice their lives for the cause.

I'm not advocating Osama's goals and he obviously is not using the same military tactics, relying on suicide bombings and such. And I think that it is also pretty obvious that he will not share Paul's success. But the Middle-East does kind of correlate with the desert world, Arrakis. Though, being an American myself, I do not think that the U.S. correlates with the reign of the Empire.

If this doesn't make any sense, it's either because you have not read the series or because i wrote this quickly without bothering to organize it. Anyways, please post any thoughts you have on the matter.

Digit · #2 (**permalink**) 02-12-2003, 02:29 AM

i see where you r comming from... alot of paralels.

but...

I thought Osama Bin Laden was in Afganistan...?

it's hardly "middle" east. it's more east than India u know. would u call india the middle east?

"Though, being an American myself, I do not think that the U.S. correlates with the reign of the Empire. "

well it correlates more than Osama & the middle east.

okok. maybe i'm being a bit snippy. no ganja... no tobaco... too many propagandists in da world - I better stop myself there ... i feel a rant coming on.

ps. I'm a pleb. I havn't read it... just watched the movie. but at least it was by an artistically savvy director.

Little Wing · #3 (**permalink**) 02-12-2003, 03:55 AM

Dunes a great book.

tednugent · #4 (**permalink**) 02-12-2003, 06:52 AM

bin ladin is from saudi arabia, not afganistan. also in the books paul isn't from arrakis--he's from caladan soeven if you think of bin ladin as being from afganistan, the parrallel stands

by the way, I just got done reading The Butlerian Jihad by Brian Herbert, Frank's son, and Kevin J. Anderson. With the previous Dune books by Frank and his son as a background, it's, if not THE best, one of the best books ever written. Even without the previous books, it's still a good book but not nearly as good

Capitão Brown · #5 (**permalink**) 02-12-2003, 01:52 PM

I can't find relationship between them. Paul Atreides ruled Arrakis, a whole planet. Osama is just someone who was elected by the american government to personify the evil, someone who US could blame for 9-11. He rules barely nothing.

Besides, using religion as a weapon is not exclusivity of the muslims. Catholics did it for centuries.

Peace.

tednugent · #6 (**permalink**) 02-12-2003, 03:09 PM

I think the relationship is reather obvious--both use the religous ferver of the desert dwellers to their advantage, and both declare a jihad against a large, entrenched political entity. You don't see the relationship because you aren't looking at it metaphorically--you could also very well say that you see no similarity because of the fact that in Dune, spcae travel is a regularity.

tednugent · #7 (**permalink**) 02-12-2003, 03:10 PM

you really think that Osama had nothing to do with 911? Our government may be inept, but they do have a very efficient Intelligence community.

Capitão Brown · #8 (**permalink**) 02-17-2003, 07:04 PM

Well, it's not about the eficience of CIA... but it was politically urgent to blame someone, so they picked him up.IMHO. There're still no evidences pointing it was him.

But anyways, I don't see the relationship because the war of the muslims against the "Great Evil" is not headead by Osama, it's quite a difuse moviment. And that's why nobody, in my opinion, will ever know who really was behind of 9-11.

Peace.

Zylark · #9 (**permalink**) 02-17-2003, 09:10 PM

didn't bush mention something about "a crusade against evil" hmm, who's using religion here? anyways, religion is just a means to an end in this conflict, not the foundation of it.

if al-quida and osama wanted to make a religious statement they'd have bombed the vatican instead. the issue is us economic and military support to interests that the average arab suffer by. thus wtc and the pentagon, money and might.

Zylark · #10 (**permalink**) 02-17-2003, 09:12 PM

... and i love the dune series. haven't seen the movie (people say it sucks anyway). dune was even the first proper real-time strategy game. i played it to death when i got it on my old amiga.

roach · #11 (**permalink**) 02-17-2003, 09:25 PM

Muslims ( or whatever) had their first Jihad about 30 years into their religion. And have been declaring them on a regular basis ever since.(Long long long long time before Dune................And it wasn't against America. Fijirians or something.America wouldn't 'come to be' for another thousand years or so.
Perhaps the author did get his ideas from their past. Many authors do.

Then again I'm stoned ,and have killed way too many brain cells to think anymore

,so here's some links............

Brief history of Islam

Brief Chronology of Islam

did I say brief...............ha

roach

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#1 (permalink) 02-11-2003, 10:12 PM
tednugent Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 201	bin laden = paul atreides Has anybody else out there read the Dune series by Frank Herbert? If you have, have you thought about how Paul Atreides used religion as a weapon? Osama seems to be doing the same. Both saw the fact that a fierce religious devotion can make followers willing to sacrifice their lives for the cause. I'm not advocating Osama's goals and he obviously is not using the same military tactics, relying on suicide bombings and such. And I think that it is also pretty obvious that he will not share Paul's success. But the Middle-East does kind of correlate with the desert world, Arrakis. Though, being an American myself, I do not think that the U.S. correlates with the reign of the Empire. If this doesn't make any sense, it's either because you have not read the series or because i wrote this quickly without bothering to organize it. Anyways, please post any thoughts you have on the matter.

#2 (permalink) 02-12-2003, 02:29 AM
Digit Banned Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,998	i see where you r comming from... alot of paralels. but... I thought Osama Bin Laden was in Afganistan...? it's hardly "middle" east. it's more east than India u know. would u call india the middle east? "Though, being an American myself, I do not think that the U.S. correlates with the reign of the Empire. " well it correlates more than Osama & the middle east. okok. maybe i'm being a bit snippy. no ganja... no tobaco... too many propagandists in da world - I better stop myself there ... i feel a rant coming on. ps. I'm a pleb. I havn't read it... just watched the movie. but at least it was by an artistically savvy director.

#3 (permalink) 02-12-2003, 03:55 AM
Little Wing Old School Stoner Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,339	Dunes a great book. __________________ "The years go fast, but the days go so slow"

#4 (permalink) 02-12-2003, 06:52 AM
tednugent Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 201	bin ladin is from saudi arabia, not afganistan. also in the books paul isn't from arrakis--he's from caladan soeven if you think of bin ladin as being from afganistan, the parrallel stands by the way, I just got done reading The Butlerian Jihad by Brian Herbert, Frank's son, and Kevin J. Anderson. With the previous Dune books by Frank and his son as a background, it's, if not THE best, one of the best books ever written. Even without the previous books, it's still a good book but not nearly as good

#5 (permalink) 02-12-2003, 01:52 PM
Capitão Brown Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4	I can't find relationship between them. Paul Atreides ruled Arrakis, a whole planet. Osama is just someone who was elected by the american government to personify the evil, someone who US could blame for 9-11. He rules barely nothing. Besides, using religion as a weapon is not exclusivity of the muslims. Catholics did it for centuries. Peace.

#6 (permalink) 02-12-2003, 03:09 PM
tednugent Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 201	I think the relationship is reather obvious--both use the religous ferver of the desert dwellers to their advantage, and both declare a jihad against a large, entrenched political entity. You don't see the relationship because you aren't looking at it metaphorically--you could also very well say that you see no similarity because of the fact that in Dune, spcae travel is a regularity.

#7 (permalink) 02-12-2003, 03:10 PM
tednugent Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 201	you really think that Osama had nothing to do with 911? Our government may be inept, but they do have a very efficient Intelligence community.

#8 (permalink) 02-17-2003, 07:04 PM
Capitão Brown Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4	Well, it's not about the eficience of CIA... but it was politically urgent to blame someone, so they picked him up.IMHO. There're still no evidences pointing it was him. But anyways, I don't see the relationship because the war of the muslims against the "Great Evil" is not headead by Osama, it's quite a difuse moviment. And that's why nobody, in my opinion, will ever know who really was behind of 9-11. Peace.

#9 (permalink) 02-17-2003, 09:10 PM
Zylark Old School Stoner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Norway, on the Westside where it rains perpetually. Posts: 3,325	didn't bush mention something about "a crusade against evil" hmm, who's using religion here? anyways, religion is just a means to an end in this conflict, not the foundation of it. if al-quida and osama wanted to make a religious statement they'd have bombed the vatican instead. the issue is us economic and military support to interests that the average arab suffer by. thus wtc and the pentagon, money and might. __________________

#10 (permalink) 02-17-2003, 09:12 PM
Zylark Old School Stoner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Norway, on the Westside where it rains perpetually. Posts: 3,325	btw ... and i love the dune series. haven't seen the movie (people say it sucks anyway). dune was even the first proper real-time strategy game. i played it to death when i got it on my old amiga. __________________

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#11 (permalink) 02-17-2003, 09:25 PM
roach ____________ Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 846	Muslims ( or whatever) had their first Jihad about 30 years into their religion. And have been declaring them on a regular basis ever since.(Long long long long time before Dune................And it wasn't against America. Fijirians or something.America wouldn't 'come to be' for another thousand years or so. Perhaps the author did get his ideas from their past. Many authors do. Then again I'm stoned ,and have killed way too many brain cells to think anymore ,so here's some links............ Brief history of Islam Brief Chronology of Islam did I say brief...............ha roach __________________ Roach Last edited by roach; 02-17-2003 at 09:45 PM.