Hole In Ontario Health System - Big Ideas!

[astro_righteous]

you must not have read the whole thread.

some where, a few pages back, started a thread about an idea that many people all wanted in on and are adding to the idea as to how it can be accomplished. a few pages later that idea started to come into fruition with scott receiving the NECESARY licensing and permits to not only obtain the building and be allowed to grow his product inside that building.

afew pages later and more and more things are happening, including the first blood being drawn by the police, but as i see it, it is like a kamakaze blow to them cuz obviously scott doesnt give a shit about being in jail, but thats probably just what he was looking for because now, he can receive both payment for unlawful arrest, and to get the picture clear that he isnt fucking around with this shit.

be a skeptic all you want but based on what i have been told and what i read on a regular basis, this will happen sooner than you think and most likely end up helping make a big step forward in the legalization of medical marijuana.

[Scott226]

I need to say how I love that Astro has taken controll over my lifes dream. Neverthe less it makes me really happy to know someone like him is so dedicated. If you move to Canada and we get this going I would love for you to co-own it with me.

On another note. Well... there isnt really another note because nothing new has happened. I woke up, had some captn' crunch and went to the building and put some holes in the wall and fucked around until I was exhausted.

I know it sounds like I probably should get to work on building, but im under a lot of stress right now and Im just waiting to see how my court goes, along with astros.

[Rasta_Man]

I'd offer to help scott, but I'm busy during the work days.

Best of luck, though.

[astro_righteous]

i went to court today and i still didnt have my drivers license back yet so they extended the sentencing to the 6th. but i still know im getting time.

but in any case, thats fucking great i would love to co-own with you.
kinda would feel good to just be able to put my ideas out there, take it or leave it kind of thing, and not feel like someone is gonna shoot it down cuz im just someone lowly kid on the bottom of the seniority.

cuz i have a lot to learn in the business area, but i know i can help inovate the botany industry with my scientific and logical knowledge and learning potential.

i often let power get to my head, but im a push over anyways so it kinda evens out.

[Scott226]

Rasta- when you have a weekend free, be sure to tell me.

Astro- A lot of people are like that, but its good because it means you end up beign afraid of loosing it which makes you work harder.

Its raining outside and I have nothing to do so im going to start an indoor grow with 4 plants of different varieties that we would be growing in the building. Lets me get used to the strain and its characteristics.

[xanner]

I'm willing to help, I'm in Toronto. I'm free on weekends definitely. Let me know Scott.

[duckfool]

I think security is a major issue you may be overlooking. This is going to be a place than anybody in the know will be aware has a large quantity of marijuana and marijuana plants inside it. You will get broken into. Its not a matter of if, and its not even a matter of when - its a matter of how many times in x amount of time. The odds are so likely that I don't think your going to be able to attain insurance for your building your anything inside it - not from any of the insurers I've worked with anyway.

I would be thinking about fences and professional room safes (which will probably cost more than the entire building its self), and not only a digital cctv system. The government keeps it's indoor plants inside a bank grade walk in safe on a timer, inside a building on a property that isn't publicly accessible.

This is one of the main reasons that every club in existance only carries a "movable quantity" of buds and live specimens at any one particular point in time. Product is obtained off-site by people who grow in secret. Even then, roberies are extremely common. People go as far as dressing as police to gain access. Have you discussed with other distribution and compassion center owners? It will really give you a valuable look into the world your entering.

Example: http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-...lescrane.shtml

There are hundreds of stories like this all over. And these people DON'T have large gardens or even carry more than 1 week of stock.

Its not uncommon for people in certain places that allow it to pool thier plant growing freedoms into a comined operation. The way they avoid this problem is by forming a closed group of members and then conducting thier operation privately/secretly, without a public storefront, or a name that screams "Hey you! Over here! Theres enough pot in this old building for you to retire on!". Others house thier grow and retail facilities seperatly, with the grow facility being discreet and not labled as such, and they still have a reasonable amount of security.

It might seem unessecary when you think of plants as plants. But others see plants as money, and in your case, milllions of dollars of it. People have knocked down the sides of buildings and cut through safes for less than that.

Originally Posted by Scott226

Hes negotiating on a court date and will let me know.

.

This may be a terribly bad idea. The way you have obtained / plan to obtain for others your medical federal expemption status certificate(s), you've already broken about 7 or 8 laws. By taking this to court, you are making this fact highly visible to authority who are familiar with these laws.

Your also going to need the police to be your best friends if you ever do set this up in entirety.


Not to be a huge downer or anything, but your starting a business on an already highly touchy subject, and you've started it off by breaking the law. Making copies of those forms is also illegal and on par with currency counterfiet and could put you in prison for a very long time. Have you disclosed ALL of these details with your lawyer? You may be shooting yourself in the foot by getting his/her approval while leaving out some details.

Posting this on here was also likely a bad idea. With the aid of internet crawlers, prety much anything you say on the internet will be around for a long time, even if you modify it at the source. What do you do when a court reads everything on these pages? You've said and discussed a few things that would seriously work against you in a legal context.

It seems what your trying to do is form a dispensary under existing laws by taking advantage of non explicit statements in the law. Every where dispensaries DO exist, there are specific provisions in the law made just for that fact. The people doing it in places outside of the law never last. Hopefully you've heard of Chris Goodwin from Hamilton.

I know I probably sound like a huge asshole, I dont mean to, but as your plan stands I don't think there's a chance. Something like this requires years of consultation with the powers that be, careful planning, and familiarity with thousands of thousands of pages of procedural information.

Also, get yourself a hard copy of all the federal and provincial laws that concern this operation from a legal library or parliament. The information on the websites is only a summary, and the hard copies contain many things that you may think they have "left out".

Good luck and take care.

[astro_righteous]

i dont think that you are getting the idea that there is licensing involved with this and thus makes it legal.

yes its hard to judge the actual outcome of this operation, but its being done im sure with absolute scrutiny and as legal as possible, the thing is that scott hasnt broken any laws yet that im aware of.

i think security is an issue also but im sure that will be taken care of when it needs to be. we were only just talking about security systems like a page ago. but he doesnt have any product just yet so i wouldnt worry about it yet.

it does suck that you are a downer cuz i dont think you really are fully aware of how legal it can and will be to do all this. and his little run in with johnny law will be faught because again, he didnt break a law, he had papers saying it was legal for him to smoke.

[duckfool]

Astro, I believe I do have the idea. I live here, in southern Ontario and am quite well versed in these issues.

Under the Canadian MMAD's regulations, the closest your going to legally get to this idea is if every single member that joins turns thier care-giver rights over to you, which is slightly unrealistic, and which takes time and paperwork. This also means that none of them will have access to government marijuana supply or be able to legally grow any of thier own plants. Also keep in mind that being granted medical access does not always come with cultivation rights, so you would have some proportion of individuals with the medical right to possess dried marijuana, but who can not legally obtain it from you.

If, as stated, your planning on distributing copies of the aplication forms available from health Canada, they are valueless without an endorsement by a specialist, whom you must be reffered to by a non specialist physician. If you have/have copies of pre-endorsed forms, your breaking the law, and will be caught. Why? Because the number of users is so small, and the scrutiny of applications are high. In most places medical access is between patient and doctor. Here, it involves approval from the government. Statistics are kept on how many exemptions are granted, on how many doctors endorsed them, and how many endorsements a single doctor is responsible for. an unusual surge in the small population of medical users, or a disproportionality in the doctor - patient ratio is an easily detectable red flag.

Perhaps the creator of this thread was fortunate, but under most circumstances, you need to have a severe and debilitating ailment to stand a chance at access in this country, "I'm sad and i get headaches" doesn't even come close to cutting it.

Are you going to have enough customers to maintain your business? Canada is not like a place such as California when it comes to medical marijuana. In this entire, vast country, only about 1000 people have medical marijuana access. Plan on having 100 members? Good luck obtaining 10% of the country's medical users and convincing them to give up growing themselves or thier $4/gram government supply - especially if you can only offer a couple of ounces periodically (medical users use up to a quarter ounce per day).

what I'm trying to get at is that this idea has been (very realistically) considered by many before, and there are hundreds of considerations - the ones presented here are only 2 or 3 of them. It has been explored by myself, and by others with quite an appreciable amount of business and political education and experience, including a certain someone who owns one of the provinces largest headshops. There are so so so very many details to consider that make this idea not possible - at least not without time spent on political delegation and the hundreds of issues you face. I should re-iterate that the game your about to enter is very heavy on politics.. . I do commend you for your creativity and determination to do this, but the policy and social demographic required just don't exist.

[astro_righteous]

ok i see what you are saying. i understand that cultivation is a differnt thing than growing for personal use. but also understand that i have read the forms to which you fill out to obtain the papers and no they wont just get coppied because each person will fill out their own applications to send in, but the idea is to help those who need it, get it. an help find a physician that can help get the necesary approval and so that in itseld would be the customer base. because as soon as people find out about the place, they will think about how to get the help they need.

i think quite possibly if some one around GC knows of doctors that would d that would be highly welcomed to join the club. and the difference between the gov't weed and the weed grown here is the strain availability and the nice atmosphere to enjoy it in.

i wish i could write more but im at work and cant so i will conclude later.

[Scott226]

sorry if I miss anything... didnt read it all.

As for legalbility, im not worries I have talked to my lawer and everything and im not breaking any laws at all.

I will also be greatly worried about security and I have to admit, i havnt put much thought into how to do it. Im think security guards.

Ill be back in a week and ill talk more, im going to B.C to visit a friend. Take it easy.

[astro_righteous]

ill bring my arsenal of weaponry and train everyone in the art of 'Pink Mist' and 'Back Craters'.

can you wire the walls with explosives just in case the Canadian DEA, or whatever you call them, comes and tries to raid the place, and then we go out in an extreme blaze of glory.


have a nice trip

[Scavenger101]

God i hope this works out. Something like this would show a huge step in the responsibility and would show the gov't how many smokers there really are. Maybe will give them a reality check! Who knows though, and yes very many valid concerns are listed here. Edgar allen poe once said "Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!" I would say for this specific situation, "Security, security security!" It's going to be one hell of a ride boys, and I'm def. pulling up a chair for this one. If/when I come to Canada, and if i stay at all, I'm definitely gonna stop by for a toke. Keep it easy, and good luck boys, watchin this thread with interest, keep us updated!!

-Scavenger101

[astro_righteous]

anything new popping up recently?

[Rasta_Man]

Yeah I'm curious too. I'd except you to be in the middle of renovating that place right about now.