The War on Terror

[Wykid]

it would be a war....you can add any name you would like to it but its still a war.....a revolutionary war.


edit: i said "war" because some people think that we can bring revolution with words. i am not one of those people. for a revolution to happen were gonna need to go to war with the government....people are going to die, from both ends, but i think the ends justify the means.

[WookiesAreCool]

I don't get it though, we really had no problems with Saddam, certainly not with his human rights violations that could put some in Africa to shame.

I'm too stoned for this I'm going back to Munchies and Miles Davis.

[sheeps101]

Rasta Man, it does not bother me that i make you very sad. I do not need your approval for my beliefs. How do you propose Israel should deal with these terrorist attacks, serve them milk and cookies?

edit-Id also like to know how I am neo-conservative based on one facet of my political views. Im not here for hatin on you or anyone else. I hope we could have an open debate.

[Rasta_Man]

Originally Posted by sheeps101

Rasta Man, it does not bother me that i make you very sad. I do not need your approval for my beliefs. How do you propose Israel should deal with these terrorist attacks, serve them milk and cookies?

edit-Id also like to know how I am neo-conservative based on one facet of my political views. Im not here for hatin on you or anyone else. I hope we could have an open debate.

I can't begin to debate with you because i can't begin to comprehend your disregaurd for innocent human life. 50 innocent lebonese citizens don't seem like Palestinian terrorists to me.

If you re-read my comment, I didn't call you a neo-conservative.

I think you fail to understand the reasons of the discourse and violence in the Middle-East, specifically Israel and Palestine. Israel is flexing it's military muscle in a vain and poorly-thought out attempt to quell Palestinian Extremism and Terorrism when that is in fact the result of MUCH deeper social issues in the region.

The one thing that we have learn is that conventional warfare only causes terrorism to increase, civillian losses ("collateral damage") to increase, etc. The people paying for thing are innocent Lebonese civillians, not the terrorists, not the islamic extremists.

They have no regaurd for the impact they are having around the world with this little illegal invasion of Lebanon. It's this ignorant, short-sighted world leaders who are brash, conservative war-mongers who cause the discourse and allow it to grow.

[Tbika]

Originally Posted by Wykid

war is not necessarily a bad thing.

war = death. you cant argue that.

but the end can sometimes justify a war.

war is always a bad thing

sometimes a necessary evil, but always an evil

Originally Posted by wykid

edit: i said "war" because some people think that we can bring revolution with words. i am not one of those people. for a revolution to happen were gonna need to go to war with the government....people are going to die, from both ends, but i think the ends justify the means

i disagree. we who believe that a revolution is necessary make up a small precentage of the population. If we were to wage war against the government, most of the american (or whatever country you're in) people would be against us. and even if we were to succed, then in the mind of the people, we would be opressing them. the only way for things to change is to get people to change their minds. if we can get the people on our side, then the government would most likely be forced to chage. if not, then war would be the only option, but war should ALWAYS be the last optoin.

[Rasta_Man]

Originally Posted by Tbika

war is always a bad thing

sometimes a necessary evil, but always an evil



i disagree. we who believe that a revolution is necessary make up a small precentage of the population. If we were to wage war against the government, most of the american (or whatever country you're in) people would be against us. and even if we were to succed, then in the mind of the people, we would be opressing them. the only way for things to change is to get people to change their minds. if we can get the people on our side, then the government would most likely be forced to chage. if not, then war would be the only option, but war should ALWAYS be the last optoin.

Well said, and I agree.

From the research I've done and from what I can gather, I think that the general american population is going to find itself experiencing some very drastic changes due to the goverment in the near future, and i think people will be woken up by this, I can only hope that this event doesn't come too late.

And though the thought of violence and war in our daily lives seems fantastical, we have to remember that we live very sheltered lives and that it indeed exists and happens. We live in a growing police state.

One can only imagine what happens when people without guns stand up to people with guns.

It's terrible to think that it may some day come to that.

[godiva]

Originally Posted by sheeps101

I disagree with the statement "War is Terror". You cant generalize all war because we are currently engaged in an unjust one. I think that is disrespectful to those that have faught and given their lives in just wars. No one complains about the American Revolution, or World War II. But the second that we are engaged in a war that people disagree with everyone starts saying that war is terrorism and shit. War is the only constant in our society.

And I have to say, I hope Israel burns Palestine to the ground. They give them land, they give up settlements, they allow them to elect terrorists to leadership positions, and then they have the nerve to launch rockets at Israeli civilians. Plain Bullshit. And Lebanon i guess feels the need to violate years of peace by allowing terrorists to attack Israel from withen Lebanon. I love how the Arab nations are the only nations that allow violence and attacks to happen and do nothing to condemn them, but love to scream and bitch and moan when one of their civilians is killed.

In my eyes the Palestinians were given their chance and they blew it.

Hmm..... You need to polish up on your history luvvy.

Just for fun, lets have a look at non-compliance with UN resolutions on the Israeli side...


Here is a short list, 1955-1992:

* Resolution 106: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid";

* Resolution 111: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people";

* Resolution 127: ". . . 'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem";

* Resolution 162: ". . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions";

* Resolution 171: ". . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria";

* Resolution 228: ". . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control";

* Resolution 237: ". . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees";

* Resolution 248: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan";

* Resolution 250: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem";

* Resolution 251: ". . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250";

* Resolution 252: ". . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital";

* Resolution 256: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation"";

* Resolution 259: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation";

* Resolution 262: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport";

* Resolution 265: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan";

* Resolution 267: ". . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem";

* Resolution 270: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon";

* Resolution 271: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem";

* Resolution 279: ". . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon";

* Resolution 280: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon";

* Resolution 285: ". . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon";

* Resolution 298: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem";

* Resolution 313: ". . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon";

* Resolution 316: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon";

* Resolution 317: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon";

* Resolution 332: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon";

* Resolution 337: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty";

* Resolution 347: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon";

* Resolution 425: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon";

* Resolution 427: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon';

* Resolution 444: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces";

* Resolution 446: ". . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention";

* Resolution 450: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon";

* Resolution 452: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories";

* Resolution 465: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program";

* Resolution 467: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon";

* Resolution 468: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return";

* Resolution 469: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians";

* Resolution 471: ". . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention";

* Resolution 476: ". . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'";

* Resolution 478: ". . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'";

* Resolution 484: ". . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors";

* Resolution 487: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility";

* Resolution 497: ". . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith";

* Resolution 498: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon";

* Resolution 501: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops";

* Resolution 509: ". . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon";

* Resolution 515: ". . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in";

* Resolution 517: ". . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon";

* Resolution 518: ". . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon";

* Resolution 520: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut";

* Resolution 573: ". . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters;

* Resolution 587: ". . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw";

* Resolution 592: ". . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops";

* Resolution 605: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians;

* Resolution 607: ".. . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention;

* Resolution 608: ". . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians";

* Resolution 636: ". . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians;

* Resolution 641: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians;

* Resolution 672: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount;

* Resolution 673: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations;

* Resolution 681: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians;

* Resolution 694: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return;

* Resolution 726: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians; and

* Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

At the same time that Washington joined or acquiesced in these sixty-nine resolutions, it used its veto twenty-nine separate times to prevent the Security Council from passing resolutions against Israel. The following are the resolutions vetoed by the US during the period of September 1972 to May 1990 to protect Israel from council criticism:

* " . . . condemned Israel's attack against Southern against southern Lebanon and Syria. . . ";

* " . . . affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections. . . ";

* " . . . condemned Israel's air strikes and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians. . . ";

* " . . . called for self-determination of Palestinian people";

* " . . . deplored Israel's altering of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city by most world nations and the United Nations . . . ";

* " . . . affirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people . . . ";

* " . . . endorsed self-determination for the Palestinian people . . . ";

* " . . . demanded Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights";

* " . . . condemned Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva convention protocols of civilized nations. . . ";

* " . . . condemned an Israeli soldier who shot eleven Moslem worshippers at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount near Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem. . . ";

* " . . . urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon . . . ";

* " . . . urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut. . . ";

* " . . . urged cutoff of economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon. . . ";

* " . . . condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace. . . ";

* " . . . deplores Israel's brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urges its withdrawal. . . ";

* " . . . condemned Israeli brutality in southern Lebanon and denounced the Israeli 'Iron Fist' policy of repression. . .";

* " . . . denounced Israel's violation of human rights in the occupied territories. . . ";

* " . . . deplored Israel's violence in southern Lebanon...";

* " . . . deplored Israel's activities in occupied Arab East Jerusalem that threatened the sanctity of Muslim holy sites";

* " . . . condemned Israel's hijacking of a Libyan passenger airplane. . . ";

* " . . . deplored Israel's attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon. . . ";

* " . . . called on Israel to abandon its policies against the Palestinian intifada that violated the rights of occupied Palestinians, to abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions, and to formalize a leading role for the United Nations in future peace negotiations. . . ";

* " . . . urged Israel to accept back deported Palestinians, condemned Israel's shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention, and called for a peace settlement under UN auspices. . . ";

* " . . . condemned Israel's . . incursion into Lebanon. . . ";

* " . . deplored Israel's . . commando raids on Lebanon. . . ";

* " . . . deplored Israel's repression of the Palestinian intifada and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians. . . ";

* " . . . deplored Israel's violation of the human rights of the Palestinians. . . ";

* " . . . demanded that Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact-finding mission to observe Israel's crackdown on the Palestinian intifada . . . "; and

* " . . . called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli-occupied lands. . . ";

Nuff said.

[Palehorse22]

godiva...you left out the one that stated that lebanon should deploy it's military on it's border with israel so that Hesbolla could not attack Israel...If Lebanon had complied with that we would not have this situation now...Israel pulled out of Lebanon...Israel lived up to it's part...same with the Gaza and west bank...israel Responds to terrorist attacks...what do you expect them to do....what if mexico or canada knowingly let terrorist groups attack the USA from their soil..what should we do...same thing...

[Rasta_Man]

Wow, rep + godiva.

[Wykid]

Originally Posted by Tbika

war is always a bad thing

sometimes a necessary evil, but always an evil



i disagree. we who believe that a revolution is necessary make up a small precentage of the population. If we were to wage war against the government, most of the american (or whatever country you're in) people would be against us. and even if we were to succed, then in the mind of the people, we would be opressing them. the only way for things to change is to get people to change their minds. if we can get the people on our side, then the government would most likely be forced to chage. if not, then war would be the only option, but war should ALWAYS be the last optoin.

so fighting for your freedom is an evil?

[Rasta_Man]

Originally Posted by Wykid

so fighting for your freedom is an evil?

Personally I don't think so.

I think every possibly avenue must be explored, all the democratic, peacful options exhausted

When it comes down to it, when the people face down the police and military in the streets of our cities, I dont think we will be given a choice. fight or submit.

Especially with their famous "us vs. them" mentality, designed to keep dissent from reaching a viable option

[Wykid]

national gaurd in NO, national gaurd on the border.....pretty soon the national gaurd will be patrolling the streets and shooting at anyone out past 8pm.

[Rasta_Man]

Originally Posted by Wykid

national gaurd in NO, national gaurd on the border.....pretty soon the national gaurd will be patroling the streets and shooting at anyone out past 8pm.

I wouldn't be surprised.

The military has had several training ops in the south for the last 2 decades where they practice population control, executing warrants, dealing with large groups of angry protesters, etc.

Stuff which is actually illegal for the military to do.

They were featured in Alex's Jones "911: Road to Tyranny", But i'm too lazy to find the sources and all that, so your on your own.

[Tbika]

Originally Posted by Wykid

so fighting for your freedom is an evil?

yes, the fighting is evil, but fighting for freedom is (usually) a necissary evil.

[rageagainst]

the US government is so fucked up, the war isnt about weapons of mass destruction or whatever they say it started over, it was for money and oil. I have reason to believe that september 11 was a self inflicted wound in the american airlines records i forget the flight number and all but those flight that were "hijacked" were never supposed to fly that day. The phone calls recieved, they only released like 5 min of each one, one was a guy asking his mom if she beleived him like 80 times, he didnt sound worried at all, there was no backround noise, no screams. Furthermore, look at pictures of the pentagon after the attack there is a CIRCULAR hole in the wall there was no wing marks or hole from the tale piece it was about the size of the damage a tomohawk missile can do. A white line had apparently been sprayed in front of the pentagon prior to the attack on the exact flight the "plane" took as it hit the Pentagon. The Two Towers burned for 10 seconds then fell, a larger tower in africa was hit by a plane, burned for 24 hours and never fell. In videos of the twin towers after the plane hits there are explosions and white dots running up and down the building and then it falls, these explosions are similiar to small explosives, 2 days before the attack all police-men and bomb sniffing dogs were pulled from the twin tower area while an "emergency drill" took place. Strange men with suitcases were sighted in the building. I could go on all day about this but lastly all members of congress were called the night before and told night to fly on the 11th and the owner of the towers who had wanted to get rid of them BADLY filed each plane as seperate acts of terrorism would would have made him a billionaire, he only got one.


found this on such information also: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...1+loose+change saw a longer version before this might just be useless crap

also on the back of your dollar bill draw a pentagram ( saw this on the history channel) if you do it on the back of the bill in the left circle and its in the right position then the points point to individual letters spelling "MASON" the masons were people trying to start a new world order and theories suggest they are working with the US governemtn. Also on teh back left circle it says "ANNUIT COEPTIS" which i heard is another gruop like the masons that supposedly died out AND on the back it says "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM" meaning new world order and in the bottom of the period there are roman numbers which has something to do with the date the group was formed

anyway to wrap things up cuz i could talk all day on this the US government sucks and must be destroyed

I just kinda read through the thread more and looked back and realized this is more on terms of a US revolution than the war on (of) terror ya so if this deosnt fit them just diregard it but this is what i know about the war, im not as learned on the middle east events as some of you are.

edit: rasta man i think i saw an alex jones film on 9-11 which is where i learned of all that shit in the top parahraph