why don't we get serious about our shit?

[Dark_Angers]

i mean seeds will not win the war, but it can give attention to the orginisation if the media turns its attention to all the random plants growing, we step in get our name out in the open. It is free media attention. Weedzilla u should start the orginisation i would be willing to donate money if it is made. I can't do much else but i can make nice donations, posters, and such

[cocoa]

actually i have a plant like 1.5 ft tall that i gotta get rid of. (parents found it. not pissed but want it gone) ill somewhere cool.

[AK Infinity]

Sometimes when I think about the complexity of this issue I become as cynical as so many but ultimately what will win this struggle is sheer unfettered determination. As long as Marijuana is seen primarily as a recreational drug used by burned out hippies and dope heads our cries for social justice are going to fall on deaf ears. The general public is going to have to be shown that Marijuana consumers are just like them and that what's at stake is more profound than the drug.

"There's a lot of brainwashing that we have to reverse. I think we just need more people who are willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of MJ. But then you look at the PotActivist Rallies that do go on. You always see a bunch of "typical" looking stoner people everywhere. Dreadlocks, dirtylookin, just people that "Look" the part. This type of thing stears main stream america away. If activism wants to take a LEAP forward then they need to get with the program. You're trying to change peoples mind about MJ so why would you have a rally with a bunch of people who smoke pot and Look NOTHING like those whose votes and sympathy we need.

If I were to do a Rally I would have a Dress attire. Hate to say it but it nowadays its all about appearance. Don't believe me look at Congress. Some of the shit they pass is rediculous elementary school shite. But they dress the package nicely so people don't view it the same. Makes sense? Dress to impress is a little rule of thumb you should have when dealing with the public. If people in the MJ comm. gets mad at this then they're not trying to win a war. We keep doin the same thing and getting the same results, that's stupid to me. . . . ."

~Shouse1018~

Excellent points bro, I guess what you're really saying is that we have to take the movement deadly seriously instead of asking the general public to accept us on our terms, which is sort of moronic because they never will. The plain truth is that there are more of them than there are of us. If I were visiting in Mexico would it be rational for me to expect the whole country to speak English for my convenience or that I learn to acclimate myself to fit in? We need to seriously rethink our approach to this issue and who we want to represent us as a group.

(IMHO the sacredness and the healing power of the plant has to take and hold the center stage, while the recreational aspect takes a back seat.)

Lastly: We have to get use to the idea that we may not see change in our lifetime but we should still represent the cause with the same passion as if we were.

Here's a cool read on the eight stages of a social movement, check it out if you have the time.

(Note: We're not even fully at stage one so we need to get our asses in gear.)



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The Eight Stages of Successful Social Movements

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Download Winning the Public in Three Ways (pdf)

Download Eight Stages of Social Movement Success(pdf)

by

Bill Moyer

Social movements are not spontaneous events. According to Bill Moyer, successful social movements follow eight stages. His schema helps us not only to plan social movements, it helps to overcome a sense of failure and powerlessness that we often feel -- the sense that we are always losing.
We don't criticize a sophomore in college because she hasn't graduated from college; similarly, social movements are not unsuccessful just because they haven't met their objectives yet. Movements build toward their goals over time, building on a series of phases. Moyer's concept is important because it combats one of the key weapons of the status quo, which seeks to continually make its opponents feel powerless. The Eight Stages of Successful Social Movements is a practical strategy and action planning model describing eight stages that successful movements progress through over many years. For each stage, it gives the roles of the movement, powerholders, and the public, and movement goals appropriate to that stage.
The following eight stages are grouped into five broad phases of hidden problem, increasing tensions, take-off, waging the movement, and success.
Hidden Problem

Stage 1: Normal Times

• A critical social problem exists that violates widely held values.
• The general public is unaware of this problem.
• Only a few people are concerned.

Movement uses official channels, demonstrations are small and rare.
Powerholders: chief goal is to keep issue off social and political agenda.
Public is unaware of the problem and supports powerholders. Only 10-15% of public support change.
Movement goals of Stage 1:

• Build organizations, vision, and strategy.
• Document problems and powerholders’ roles. Become informed.

Increasing Tensions

Stage 2: Efforts to Change the Problem Demonstrate the Failure of Official Remedies

• A variety of small and scattered opposition groups do research, educate others.
• New wave of grassroots opposition begins.
• Official mechanisms are used to address the problem: hearings, the courts, the legislature; if these work, the problem is resolved. But often, the official approaches don't work. This shows how entrenched the problem is and demonstrates the failure of institutions to solve it.

Movement uses official system to prove it violates widely held values.
Powerholders: chief goal is to keep issue off social and political agenda and maintain
routine bureaucratic functioning to stifle opposition.
Public still unaware of issue and supports status quo. 15-20% of the public support change.
Movement goals of Stage 2:

• Prove and document the failure of official institutions and powerholders to uphold public trust and values.
• Begin legal cases to establish legal and moral basis for opposition.
• Build opposition organizations, leadership, expertise.

Stage 3: Ripening Conditions

• Recognition by the public of the problem and its victims slowly grows.
• Pre-existing institutions and networks (churches, peace and justice organizations) lend their support.
• Tensions build. Rising grassroots discontent with conditions, institutions, powerholders, and “professional opposition organizations” (e.g., large lobbying groups).
• Upsetting events occur, including ones which “personify” the problem.
• Perceived or real worsening conditions.

Movement: grassroots groups grow in number and size. Small nonviolent actions begin. Parts of progressive community won over, pre-existing networks join new cause.
Powerholders still favor existing policies and control official decision-making channels.
Public still unaware of problems and supports powerholders. 20-30% oppose official policies.
Movement goals of Stage 3:

• Educate/win over progressive community.
• Prepare grassroots for new movement.
• More local nonviolent actions.

Take-off

Stage 4: Take-Off

• A catalytic (“trigger”) event occurs that starkly and clearly conveys the problem to the public (e.g., the killing of Matthew Shepard in 2000; 1986 Chernobyl nuclear accident).
• Building on the groundwork of the first three stages, dramatic nonviolent actions and campaigns are launched.
• These activities show how this problem violates widely held values.
• The problem is finally put on "society's agenda."
• A new social movement rapidly takes off.

Movement enacts or responds to trigger event, holds large rallies and demonstrations and many nonviolent actions. A new “movement organization” is created, characterized by informal organizational style, energy, and hope for fast change. “Professional opposition organizations” sometimes oppose “rebel” activities.
Powerholders areshocked by new opposition and publicity, fail to keep issue off social agenda, reassert official line, and attempt to discredit opposition.
Public becomes highly aware of problem. 40-60% oppose official policies.
Movement goals of Stage 4:

• Put issue on social agenda. Create a new grassroots movement.
• Alert, educate and win public opinion.
• Legitimize movement by emphasizing and upholding widely held societal values.

Waging the Movement

Stage 5: Movement Identity Crisis -- A Sense of Failure and Powerlessness

• Those who joined the movement when it was growing in Stage 4 expect rapid success. When this doesn't happen there is often hopelessness and burn-out.
• It seems that this is the end of the movement; in fact, it is now that the real work begins.

Movement: numbers down at demonstrations, less media coverage, long-range goals not met. Unrealistic hopes of quick success are unmet. Many activists despair, burn out, and drop out. “Negative rebel” and “naive citizen” activities gain prominence in movement.
Powerholders and media claim that movement has failed, discredit movement by highlighting and encouraging “negative rebel” activities, sometimes through agents provocateurs.
Public alienated by negative rebels. Risk of movement becoming a subcultural sect that is isolated and ineffective.
Movement goals of Stage 5:

• Recognize movement progress and success. Counter “negative rebel” tendencies.
• Recognize that movement is nearing Stage Six and pursue goals appropriate to that stage.

Stage 6: Winning Majority Public Opinion

• The movement deepens and broadens.
• The movement finds ways to involve citizens and institutions from a broad perspective to address this problem.
• Growing public opposition puts the problem on the political agenda; the political price that some powerholders have to pay to maintain their policies grows to become an untenable liability.
• The consensus of the powerholders on this issue fractures, leading to proposals from the powerholders for change (often these proposals are for cosmetic change).
• The majority of the public is now more concerned about the problem and less concerned about the movement's proposed change.
• Often there is a new catalytic event (re-enacting Stage 4).

Movement transforms from protest in crisis to long-term struggle with powerholders to win public majority to oppose official policies and consider positive alternatives. Movement broadens analysis, forms coalitions. Many new groups involved in large-scale education and involvement. Official channels used with some success. Nonviolent actions at key times and places. Many sub-goals and movements develop. Movement promotes alternatives, including paradigm shift.
Powerholders try to discredit and disrupt movement and create public fear of alternatives. Promote bogus reforms and create crises to scare public. Powerholders begin to split.
Public: 60-75% of the public oppose official policies, but many fear alternatives. However, support for alternatives is increasing. Backlash can occur and counter-movements may form.
Movement goals:

• Keep issue on social agenda.
• Win over and involve majority of the public.
• Activists become committed to the long haul.

Success

Stage 7: Success: Accomplishing Alternatives

• Majority now opposes current policies and no longer fears the alternative.
• Many powerholders split off and change positions.
• Powerholders try to make minimal reforms, while the movement demands real social change.
• The movement finally achieves one or more of its demands.
• The struggle shifts from opposing official policies to choosing alternatives.
• More costly for powerholders to continue old policies than to adopt new ones. More “re-trigger” events occur.

Movement counters powerholders’ bogus alternatives. Broad-based opposition demands change. Nonviolent action, where appropriate.
Powerholders: Some powerholders change and central, inflexible powerholders become increasingly isolated. Central powerholders try last gambits, then have to change policies, have the policies defeated by vote, or lose office.
Public majority demands for change are bigger than its fears of the alternatives. Majority no longer believe powerholders’ justifications of old policies and critiques of alternatives.
Movement goals:

• Recognize movement’s success and celebrate, follow up on the demands won, raise larger issues, focus on other demands that are in various stages, and propose better alternatives and a true paradigm shift.
• Create ongoing empowered activists and organizations to achieve other goals.

Stage 8: Continuing the Struggle

• Our struggle to achieve a more humane and democratic society continues indefinitely. This means defending the gains won as well as pursuing new ones.
• Building on this success, we return to Stage 1 and struggle for the next change.
• Key:The long-term impact of the movement surpasses the achievement of its specific demands.

Movement takes on “reform” role to protect and extend successes. The movement attempts to minimize losses due to backlash, and circles back to the sub-goals and issues that emerged in earlier stages. The long-term focus is to achieve a paradigm shift.
Powerholders adapt to new policies and conditions, claim the movement’s successes as their own, and try to roll back movement successes by not carrying out agreements or continuing old policies in secret.
Public adopts new consensus and status quo. New public beliefs and expectations are carried over to future situations.
Movement goals:

• Retain and extend successes.
• Continue the struggle by promoting other issues and a paradigm shift.
• Recognize and celebrate success. Build ongoing grassroots organizations and power bases.

~End~

We have to begin somewhere huh?

Stay green.<!--- left column end -->

[cocoa]

i vote for tossin seeds.

[Lexus_Rolla]

If you guys really want to change things. I can tell you how. You need to go to college and major in political science and minor in economics. After that you need to begin busting ass to get elected in some local position. Work your way up locally and into the state government. Become senators and representatives of your state and you can make a difference.

This sillyness of planting seeds won't work. My mom's generation tried that shit too and she looks back on it now and laughs. As soon as those plants grow someone will come along and rip them down. That is to say if they grow at all.

Remember: For as much good you're doing there's two people standing in line behind you to knock it all down.

If you wish to make a difference then start devoting your life to the cause and do what I said. You can absolutley make a difference but you can only do so from the inside. You have to learn the way things happen in this country and exploit that particular system. Revolutions don't happen over pot. They happen over oppressive kings and religions and shit. Look at the bigger picture. Shouse you're thinking big and that's good but you're doing it the same way every other hippy has. Start thinking rationale.

[AK Infinity]

Originally Posted by Lexus_Rolla

If you guys really want to change things. I can tell you how. You need to go to college and major in political science and minor in economics. After that you need to begin busting ass to get elected in some local position. Work your way up locally and into the state government. Become senators and representatives of your state and you can make a difference.

This sillyness of planting seeds won't work. My mom's generation tried that shit too and she looks back on it now and laughs. As soon as those plants grow someone will come along and rip them down. That is to say if they grow at all.

Remember: For as much good you're doing there's two people standing in line behind you to knock it all down.

If you wish to make a difference then start devoting your life to the cause and do what I said. You can absolutley make a difference but you can only do so from the inside. You have to learn the way things happen in this country and exploit that particular system. Revolutions don't happen over pot. They happen over oppressive kings and religions and shit. Look at the bigger picture. Shouse you're thinking big and that's good but you're doing it the same way every other hippy has. Start thinking rationale.

First point, hey bro I have been to college, second point not everyone needs to get into politics to make a difference from the inside because the government is a duly elected body. We need good advocates in every level of society to make a difference because whether people want to except responsibility or not we choose the course of our governments, either by participation or complacence. What you're talking about is one way to go but certainly not the only one. Everyone has specific talents and gifts that can be utilized in the effort. I'm a writer not a politician, so my contribution is going to come from the writing field not the Senate floor. And as far as Shouse1018 not thinking rationally, my God how could he think any more rationally than he already is?

Lastly, what's your talent or contribution to the cause?

"The time of surprise attacks, of revolutions, carried through by small conscious minorities at the head of unconscious masses, is past. Where it is a question of a complete transformation of the social organization, the masses themselves must also be in it, must themselves already have grasped what is at stake, what they are going in for with body and soul."

~Frederick Engels (1895), intro to The Class Struggles in France 1848 to 1850, Progress Publishers, 1972, p.22~

Peace.

[chronictoker]

guys it's simple we do count...as citizens we do have a voice we have representation within the government. the government is our friend not our enemy and it is there to be molded as we see fit that's the beauty of america (yeah just talking about US here). we are constituents say it with me now, we vote thats what that means assuming you are 18+. we, the people, run the government not the president not senators ultimately we have the power just sometimes we lose sight of that because the government and media employ their forces in order to control and have order and all that yadayada.

if they don't do as we say then guess what four years from now you (hopefully) will remember that and not vote for them thats the great part. the same guy cant be president for more than 8 years; the shelf life of senators is unfortunately much longer wtf that needs to change first of all. and let us not forget it is not a two party system; in theory, we can run under no party at all and anybody can run as long as they meet certain qualifications which need to be loosened btw imo we need women and minorities in power too and younger people...just because things have been that way forever doesnt mean it has to remain that way. we care too much about DWGs. that's dead white guys, "dead presidents to represent us" quote jay z but its true. if you truely want change the support is there, the voice is there, it just needs a microphone to be heard. power to the people. fight the power, fight the powers at be -public enemy.

[Lexus_Rolla]

Originally Posted by AK Infinity

First point, hey bro I have been to college, second point not everyone needs to get into politics to make a difference from the inside because the government is a duly elected body. We need good advocates in every level of society to make a difference because whether people want to except responsibility or not we choose the course of our governments, either by participation or complacence. What you're talking about is one way to go but certainly not the only one. Everyone has specific talents and gifts that can be utilized in the effort. I'm a writer not a politician, so my contribution is going to come from the writing field not the Senate floor. And as far as Shouse1018 not thinking rationally, my God how could he think any more rationally than he already is?

Lastly, what's your talent or contribution to the cause?

"The time of surprise attacks, of revolutions, carried through by small conscious minorities at the head of unconscious masses, is past. Where it is a question of a complete transformation of the social organization, the masses themselves must also be in it, must themselves already have grasped what is at stake, what they are going in for with body and soul."

~Frederick Engels (1895), intro to The Class Struggles in France 1848 to 1850, Progress Publishers, 1972, p.22~

Peace.

Oh wow that's cute you can quote a book.

My contribution? My contribution is that I'm not the stereotypical-worthless-slacker stoner. My contribution is that I activley work to educate the people I encounter around me. If they're ignorant I help them understand. I don't preach and I don't soap box. I don't force my thoughts down other's throats and I speak and write with sense. I'm in college getting my bachelor. The very least I can say is that I'm doing something with my life. Not sitting on pipe dreams. And do you even know the definition of "rational thought?" Perhaps I should be cool and quote that out of a dictionary because you're apparently lacking that one.

He wants to change how the issue of cannabis is handled in this country. His silly plan is not how its going to happen. They're naive thoughts of someone who sounds like he really wants to do something. Its a very common tale especially around here. This isn't the first thread like this we've had. If he truly wishes to do something he can do what I said and he literally will make a difference. Who creates the laws in this country? The Senate and the House. They can override even the president. How do you change the laws? Become the person who writes the laws. But see I doubt he actually wants to take it *that* far. He wants things to change, but he doesn't want to work *that* hard for it. Its far too easy to watch someone else do it for you. That's why no one but a select few get serious about their shit.

[chronictoker]

Originally Posted by Lexus_Rolla

How do you change the laws? Become the person who writes the laws. But see I doubt he actually wants to take it *that* far. He wants things to change, but he doesn't want to work *that* hard for it. Its far too easy to watch someone else do it for you. That's why no one but a select few get serious about their shit.

look at marc emery, he made a difference and he's no lawwriter lol...although it seems he may be a "criminal" ROFL criminal my ass...but point he he's just your average citizen, and he made a difference. degrees don't mean anything, in reality they're merely paper and ink. they might get you taken more seriously, but they are unimportant in the grand scheme of things. the route you discuss is for the politician, but not all of us are politicians although perhaps you may be someday that's fine just don't think that we common folk can't still make a difference just the same. i think that's a lesson we all need to learn respect for ourselves and for fixing the great injustices in the world, in whatever way we can because we all count for something we all have our own talents and individuality that makes us different from everybody else and that's important and we can change things even the littliest of men.

[AK Infinity]

Originally Posted by Lexus_Rolla

Oh wow that's cute you can quote a book.

My contribution? My contribution is that I'm not the stereotypical-worthless-slacker stoner. My contribution is that I activley work to educate the people I encounter around me. If they're ignorant I help them understand. I don't preach and I don't soap box. I don't force my thoughts down other's throats and I speak and write with sense. I'm in college getting my bachelor. The very least I can say is that I'm doing something with my life. Not sitting on pipe dreams. And do you even know the definition of "rational thought?" Perhaps I should be cool and quote that out of a dictionary because you're apparently lacking that one.

He wants to change how the issue of cannabis is handled in this country. His silly plan is not how its going to happen. They're naive thoughts of someone who sounds like he really wants to do something. Its a very common tale especially around here. This isn't the first thread like this we've had. If he truly wishes to do something he can do what I said and he literally will make a difference. Who creates the laws in this country? The Senate and the House. They can override even the president. How do you change the laws? Become the person who writes the laws. But see I doubt he actually wants to take it *that* far. He wants things to change, but he doesn't want to work *that* hard for it. Its far too easy to watch someone else do it for you. That's why no one but a select few get serious about their shit.

I hear where you're coming from bro, but I don't see why it's necessary to be rude about your point of view. Why can't you just state what you believe without the ad hominem response? As for me I'm not going to respond in kind because this thread is too important to be taken to that level. Instead I'm going to say I respect your point of view even though I don't agree with it and thanks for being part of the dialogue. My part in this discussion is over.

Peace.

[Lexus_Rolla]

Originally Posted by chronictoker

look at marc emery, he made a difference and he's no lawwriter lol...although it seems he may be a "criminal" ROFL criminal my ass...but point he he's just your average citizen, and he made a difference. degrees don't mean anything, in reality they're merely paper and ink. they might get you taken more seriously, but they are unimportant in the grand scheme of things. the route you discuss is for the politician, but not all of us are politicians although perhaps you may be someday that's fine just don't think that we common folk can't still make a difference just the same. i think that's a lesson we all need to learn respect for ourselves and for fixing the great injustices in the world, in whatever way we can because we all count for something we all have our own talents and individuality that makes us different from everybody else and that's important and we can change things even the littliest of men.

He made a very small difference and now he's looking at a lot of jail time. I'm not trying to turn everyone into senators here. I'm trying to explain that the reason no one gets serious about their shit is because no one person is willing to go to the necessary extreme to get the job done.

[Shouse1018]

Originally Posted by Lexus_Rolla

He made a very small difference and now he's looking at a lot of jail time. I'm not trying to turn everyone into senators here. I'm trying to explain that the reason no one gets serious about their shit is because no one person is willing to go to the necessary extreme to get the job done.

At least he had the Balls to do something.

What are you doing? "Going to school to get my bachelors". How is that gonna help

what we're doing now? The only thing that will happen for sure is you'll be even more

stuck up than you are now. Thinkin you have the "right" way and that no one else can

get anything done any other way. All You're doing is payin alot of Time and Money

for a piece of paper that says I'm better than you. You're a follower plain and simple.

I happen to think I've put alot of strategic thinkin In the Movement I'm goin to create.

And maybe I am Irrational because I do have emotions invested in this. I feel

sadness that people have to suffer the way they do all because WE do not help

the voices that NEED to be Heard. It is Our Duty to help those who cannot help

themselves. So yes, I'm irrational but it's what drives me.

My contribution? My contribution is that I'm not the stereotypical-worthless-slacker stoner. My contribution is that I activley work to educate the people I encounter around me. If they're ignorant I help them understand. I don't preach and I don't soap box. I don't force my thoughts down other's throats and I speak and write with sense. I'm in college getting my bachelor. The very least I can say is that I'm doing something with my life. Not sitting on pipe dreams. And do you even know the definition of "rational thought?" Perhaps I should be cool and quote that out of a dictionary because you're apparently lacking that one.

So this is how the Educated man speaks. Not that much different than the way I

Speak. However, there is a difference. You're a criticizer. You're the guy in the back

who always has an objection, yet you offer no solution. The very least I can say is

That I'm doing something with my life. . . . . .LOL, my friend, You're not doing

anything better than anyone else on this forum. And if i were to do things "your"

way, I'd probaly get brainwashed by all the different forms of Propaganda that the

gov't