L.E.D. 1st Grow

[Petho1]

Yep I've decided tp get a 1000watt switchable HPS/MH light system and can't wait. Right now I've found out that the cfl's are stronger than those cheap led's and seeing improvement the CHP and PL both have a few roots now and a new set of leaves, just a little tall cue to stretching early on. Just waiting patiently.

[2Lazy]

I'm working with CFL's right now also and have gotten some VERY good results with them versus the 40w tubes I used to use. The Home Depot in my area also just got some 64w Soft white CFLs (although, at that wattage the "compact" part of the name is a joke). I've been experimenting with these lights, and have found what works best for me to be a single higher wattage (46 or 64) 2700K bulb along with two lower wattage (27w) daylight bulbs. The total lumens should be somewhere in the 5,000 to 7,000 range, with the bulbs AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the plant. With the Daylight bulbs I've put them <2cm away with no trouble. The higher wattage bulbs should be between 1 and 2 inches away, as the red light helps the plant grow upwards.
I've found with the daylight bulbs that you get really great leaf growth, but that the lower nodes become too closely packed together.

When you pick another light, there are some simple calculations you should try out. With HID lamps (this doesn't really hold true to CFL or LED) you can determine exactly how much light your plant is getting based on the distance from the light to the very corners of your garden.

At 1 foot away from the light you're getting about what lux the manufacturer describes, 50K, 90K, or 140K respectively. At two feet from the light you have to divide the number of lumens by 4 (2x2), and at 3 feet divide by 9 (3x3), etc. As an example:
400w @ 10 feet = 500 lumens
600w @ 10 feet = 900 lumens
1000w @ 10 feet = 1,400 lumens

Since we're working with squares here it should be easy to determine how much light you'll need to penetrate to the bottom of your plant, thank you Pythagorus. Take the distance from the center of the bulb to the outer edge of the garden and square it. Then take the distance of your light to the floor and square that. Add these numbers together (you could take the sq root to determine the distance from your light to the edge, but then you'd just square it again) and divide by your total lumens at that height (without taking into account canopy shade). Keep this number above 2,000 to avoid any growth issues.

Run the numbers and you'll realize that in essence the 1000w has the best penetration. But, what should be considered is the height of your plants, and the height of your room. If a 1000w fixture must be kept 2 feet from the plant to keep it from burning, and a 400w fixture is kept 1 foot away then we can determine that the 400w light is providing more light to the top of the canopy (50,000/1=50,000) than the 1000w lamp (140,000/4=35,000).

Around 3.5 feet for the 400w and around 4.5 feet for the 1000w the amount of light intersects. The 1000w lamp 5 feet away provides more light than a 400w 4 feet away. So if you're going to grow tall plants like sativas, 60 inches or taller, and you want all you can get from them, then a 1000w is your choice. If you're growing slightly shorter plants, say 36" to 60", then a 600w is more ideal. And if you're going to grow those shorter indica plants, or if you're doing a ScOG then a 400w is probably the best choice as you'll save $ on your power bill.

In my setup, my planters are 12" tall, and my reflector needs about 10" from the glass bottom to my 8 foot tall ceiling. This gives me a total of 74" of growing space. There would be no point in getting myself a 400w system since the light wouldn't penetrate deep enough. A 1000w system would provide plenty of penetration, but also limit the height my plants could grow to since I don't want them to get burned. The 600w system is a perfect fit for most 8 foot ceilings because even at 6 feet from the bulb I still get 2,500 lumens.

When choosing a light, for your first time, be mindful of this. You could do better with a 600w lamp because it provides greater light penetration than a 400w, and placed closer than a 1000w because it is cooler. There are other ways of dealing with the heat/distance problem with these lamps, but this can be very costly. If in doubt, if ventilation and cooling might be an issue, just get a 600w system. If you're growing with CO2, or you know how your room will behave temperature wise, and you're not concerned about energy costs, then get a 1000w. Just don't waste your money.

[Petho1]

Wow that info is so helpful and greatly aprreciated. I was thinking of getting the 1000w because of sheer power and I want the best results possible. But now after that info maybe I rethink the whole thing again. Right now I am limited to a closet grow but I was thinking about the future when I will have a bigger place to grow possibly but is unknown at this time. Is it possible to run a 400 or 600 watt bulb in a 1000w light system? If not I probably am looking at getting something smaller than a 1000w.

[Master_Kush]

Im new with the CFls. I have used them before but only for closet veg a long time ago. I just setup tonight my 6.5x6.5 mylar tent. Got it for 180 bucks off ebay & the quality is superb. Mylar Hydroponics Grow Tent 77x77x77. Grow Budd Box. - eBay (item 190330613662 end time Oct-23-09 08:11:39 PDT) This will be my vegg room. Here are my current sipplies & would like to add.
1- 2x4 HO T5 light 4-bulbs
1-300 watt equivelent CFL from Home Depot. 15 bucks
1- T5 4ft 2-bulbs . "Cool White" but looks warm
2- 65 watt equiv "cool white" Bulbs look like flood but are energy efficent w/out heat & I have reflectors.
2- Blue Phillips Plant lights. These are shit & going back. Alot of heat for next to no light.

I bought a cool peice but wanted to ask before investing more. It was 3 bucks & it is a bulb conversion socket for MH. It says up to 250 watts but the socket will only take a small size so your limited @ 175 watts. You screw it into a reg light socket. The MH bulb is $26. I was thinking of adding one or two but they make heat. I wont be able to use them in summer, I was thinking of just going down to the hydro store & the guy there will sell me a 4x4 CFLs system that has 4ft x8 T5 @ 440 watts. He will do me 200 out the door before talking. He will prob barter some with me as usual. He is the owner. What do you guys think for a veg tent w/ enuff rooom for a baby table would be ultimate overkill for lighting cheap ? I'm trying mixing up the spectrum a little bit. All my other grows were done 1 at a time. Not seperated. I bloom in an big open room in my garage where my tent now is also. I like to keep my bloom area open for a more natural enviroment. CO2 just speeds things up to my knowledge. It won't make the plant better than the mother but will add a higher yeild. The way I look at my micro enviroment is ....if it ain't broke don't try to fix it. I have a 50 gallon co2 tank & think I fed them a little too much last time. I have white poly on the walls, other wall has a/c, & the 6x6 is on the other side of the blooming plants to keep in the cool which I won't need to do much longer as summer is ending. What route do you all think I should take ? I wasn't planning on putting a blower in the veg room as I'm mostly using non heater lights & will have a fan.

[2Lazy]

Nope, you have to match the bulb to the ballast.

From what I've seen, a lot of people have a hard time diffusing the light from a 1000w bulb and have to keep it further away, or set up vertical in a parabolic and relying on reflection. I have my own plan that includes a 1000w MH parabolic system between two air cooled 600w HPS lights. Adds up to about 300,000 lumens total, and the plants seem to love those mixed spectrums. This is enough to grow six mature 1m wide and 2m tall plants in an 80 sqft room with a ten foot ceiling, or maybe 30 plants in a sea of green style grow.

As an fellow amateur I understand the pains of trying to get good information. Some people say 40w per square foot, some people say 2,000 lumens. I had to go out of my way just to get accurate info on lighting, much less how to set up a carbon filter, and yadda yadda.

I wouldn't pay more than $280 for a nice 600w system, you can get a cheap one on Ebay for about $180 if you're worried about it. Save some money so that on the next grow you could get a nice big hood to replace the reflector, and a nice exhaust system too. Then, the grow after that you go get the 1000w ballast and the bulb and maybe a hot spot diffuser and you now have a spare 600w system you could get a conversion bulb for or whatever. Spread out over a year, that total $700 investment is very managable.

There are a lot of ways to make an omlet. I was hoping for some good LED info...

@ Master_Kush: I suggest keeping it simple, you're going to have all these different lights, differnet bulbs, different power drains, etc. I just went out and got 5 packs of those 27w daylight bulbs, 2 packs of the 23w soft white bulbs, a 46w soft white, and a 64w soft white. I also got two of those philips lights and they are too hot for young plants, but older plants seem to benefit. They hold over 2500 lumens up to 18" from the bulbs and add a little penetration power to a CFL setup. Clamp light reflectors add about 10% more light in the upper area verses not having one.

[Petho1]

Just an update, my plants are doing alot better now that I have 10 cfl's on them. I have 2 - 26w-2700k, 4-23w-6500k, and 4-27w-5500k with a homemade reflector on top. Its getting a little hot so I need to get another fan on it. I just have small one and its not cutting it but its staying around 80 degrees, just want to get it cooler with another fan. I'll post some pics tomorrow prolly. Thanks again for all the help.

[Petho1]

Oh yeah ya'll prolly won't recognize them now, my have they grown.

[Petho1]

Like I promised, here's some pics:

[immapwner]

Leds suck, I bought 2 90 watt ufos and regret it completely. You can't even keep them less than 6 in away or else they deform the leaves and make them look wierdly dark and spotty.
You'd be better off with cfls.

[Petho1]

Well it won't let me put pics in for some reason but dam these plants are doing good. I just changed the nutes and the roots in the plants are thriving reallly good, wow! I need to change to bigger buckets quick! Led's, what led's, the cfl's are kicking ass! The stalks are thick and the plants are fucking wow so far. Thanks again everybody. Wish pics would load. Later....

[Rob Zombie]

IMHO these UFO and this kind of LED Grow "Thing" you bought rely on wrong color lamps for the diff. periods of plant life we need.

As you can see, they are in the proportion the there's a LOT of red LEDs (good for flowering), and just some blue ones, which would be most coveted during plant veg. phase.

I've seen another post where a dude was getting good results with a LED interface he built in the proportion of 8 Blue per 1 Red. This should get you through veg. (longest hours of light needed) with little light expense. Then, you could switch to other format, with more Red LEDs, or use CFLs or HPS during flowering, when you'll expend 6 less hours with them on.

I'm going for LEDs on my small grow. It's not that expensive when it come to light cost and I believe I'll get some decent yields. It's just a hobby anyways... I'm betting high stakes on this. Will have to see what will come out of it.

Here is something I found about the UFO:

Use the LED UFO for the beginning stages of vegetative growth for close internodal spacing, then as supplemental lighting as plants start to mature towards the fruiting and flowering stages. We suggest combining with fluorescent or HID lighting to improve spectrum output at that time.

[Petho1]

Ok, got 5 gal. buckets today and lids, and bigger airstones. Going to fix'em up and move plants into them soon. So will I keep the same schedule of changing nutes every week or what? Would it be longer since the resevoir is bigger? I've been lifting the net cup up each week and empty out 1 gal. bucket and fill with fresh nute solution, about a half gal. in each one, leaving a gap of air between solution and bottom of net cup thus leaving some roots exposed to air and most under water. I hope this is correct. Any suggestions will be appreciated on changing to the 5 gals.

[2Lazy]

Sounds like you have the basic concept correct. Nutrient changes really need to be done every 2 weeks, but depending on a variety of factors this might need to be shortened to what you thinking. You're going to need to experiment and see what works best for you. I've read about people who only drain nutrients when switching from one to another, maybe once a month.

[Petho1]

Thanks, I really just need to know how much air space the roots can handle in the 5 gal. bucket? I guess I'm gonna just eye it out. I know the roots need to bbe in.the water but not all of them. How much? So say if I put like 2.5 gal. of nute solution in a 5 gal. bucket and the net cup is like 6" deep and watch and wait. I didn't know if it was a bad thing to leave the nutes over a week or 7-10 days.

[Master_Kush]

When I was growing hydro I use to change the res about once a month. I had 6- 5 gallon buckets & would make up my formula & just add to them as they drank. I would change the res when I change the level of nutes I was giving it & it all turned out great. Here is a pic of that hydro grow, fresh into flower stage. This was before I bought the real deal air pump. I bought one that moves 110 litres of air per min. 112 watt. I forgot the name of it but it makes jacuzzis not bubble. The pump you see I had 3 running for 6- 5 gallon. Hydro is the middle plants & the other are soil which I slacked on. When it's all said & done I chose soil cause I believe the taste of the strain is better, more forgiving & easier to maintain. I like both methods but soil is for the lazy stoner. In hydro rule of thumb is 5 gallons per plant. I left about 2 inches of space in my buckets water level.