I think I have a triploid, with pics.

[growinbudz]

Here's an article on sex determination from wikipedia:
Mechanisms of sex determination

Cannabis has been described as having one of the most complicated mechanisms of sex determination among the dioecious plants.[63] Many models have been proposed to explain sex determination in Cannabis.
Based on studies of sex reversal in hemp, it was first reported by K. Hirata in 1924 that an XY sex-determination system is present.[61] At the time, the XY system was the only known system of sex determination. The X:A system was first described in Drosophila spp in 1925.[64] Soon thereafter, Schaffner disputed Hirata's interpretation,[65] and published results from his own studies of sex reversal in hemp, concluding that an X:A system was in use and that furthermore sex was strongly influenced by environmental conditions.[62]
Since then, many different types of sex determination systems have been discovered, particularly in plants.[56] Dioecy is relatively uncommon in the plant kingdom, and a very low percentage of dioecious plant species have been determined to use the XY system. In most cases where the XY system is found it is believed to have evolved recently and independently.[66]
Since the 1920s, a number of sex determination models have been proposed for Cannabis. Ainsworth describes sex determination in the genus as using "an X/autosome dosage type".[56]

A male hemp plant



Dense raceme of carpellate flowers typical of drug-type varieties of Cannabis


The question of whether heteromorphic sex chromosomes are indeed present is most conveniently answered if such chromosomes were clearly visible in a karyotype. Cannabis was one of the first plant species to be karyotyped; however, this was in a period when karyotype preparation was primitive by modern standards (see History of Cytogenetics). Heteromorphic sex chromosomes were reported to occur in staminate individuals of dioecious "Kentucky" hemp, but were not found in pistillate individuals of the same variety. Dioecious "Kentucky" hemp was assumed to use an XY mechanism. Heterosomes were not observed in analyzed individuals of monoecious "Kentucky" hemp, nor in an unidentified German cultivar. These varieties were assumed to have sex chromosome composition XX.[67] According to other researchers, no modern karyotype of Cannabis had been published as of 1996.[68] Proponents of the XY system state that Y chromosome is slightly larger than the X, but difficult to differentiate cytologically.[69]
More recently, Sakamoto and various co-authors[70][71] have used RAPD to isolate several genetic marker sequences that they name Male-Associated DNA in Cannabis (MADC), and which they interpret as indirect evidence of a male chromosome. Several other research groups have reported identification of male-associated markers using RAPD and AFLP.[20][44][72] Ainsworth commented on these findings, stating,

It is not surprising that male-associated markers are relatively abundant. In dioecious plants where sex chromosomes have not been identified, markers for maleness indicate either the presence of sex chromosomes which have not been distinguished by cytological methods or that the marker is tightly linked to a gene involved in sex determination.[56]

Environmental sex determination is known to occur in a variety of species.[73] Many researchers have suggested that sex in Cannabis is determined or strongly influenced by environmental factors.[62] Ainsworth reviews that treatment with auxin and ethylene have feminizing effects, and that treatment with cytokinins and gibberellins have masculinizing effects.[56] It has been reported that sex can be reversed in Cannabis using chemical treatment.[74] A PCR-based method for the detection of female-associated DNA polymorphisms by genotyping has been developed.[75]

(underlined and bolded the important parts)

[Wharfrat74]

the parts in bold are from 1931 on a study on hemp ( ruderalis)


but if what you are saying is true ..dont you think some of the old hands around here would be getting 100 percent females...no matter what seeds they used?

[growinbudz]

Originally Posted by Wharfrat74

the parts in bold are from 1931 on a study on hemp ( ruderalis)


but if what you are saying is true ..dont you think some of the old hands around here would be getting 100 percent females...no matter what seeds they used?

Good point

[skiidub]

you dont need the nutes yet
but that is a nice plant you got there.

[dutc2006]

Thanks for that info growinbudz it really gives credence to the concept. I'm less skeptical and won't rule out the idea just because it is not mainstream. I'm sure there is a lot to cannabis cultivation that has yet to be understood fully. Again my roommate tried this with 6 seedlings and all of them turned female and they were from bagseed, 3 different types. Of course it could have been coincidentally hermie pollenated buds so the seeds were feminized without our knowledge, or it was a total coincidence. But the odds of that if it were a 50% chance of getting a female from an unknown seed would be 1 out of 2 to the 6th power = 1 out of 64. Now if the other article I read was correct and triggering flowering early induces another X chromosome about 80% of the time then the odds of us getting 6 out of 6 females is .8 to the 6th power or about 1 out of 4. Much better odds and better explanation to how we got so "lucky". and thanks whatuthinkin if she shows to be female I'm gonna either reveg her so I can make cuttings and then LST them or who knows what. I might even try to LST it while in the flower box since it is still going to be trying to veg for the first several weeks. I'll be right back I'm gonna update some new pics of her in the flower box, she has new growth coming in now.

[dutc2006]

Ok, here are some more pics of the new growth, just to prove I'm keeping it alive. Of course its' sibling is much further ahead of it now but the sibling also is still in the veg box on 24/0 light. This little girl was a runt for sure but it seems she is doing okay, and I'm gonna force another X chromosome her way! I want to see three bud points per node so bad it will be AWESOME .

[whatuthinkin]

yep looks like you have the exact thing that i have going on!!!! yay!!! good to see someone else.

however on my plant only the main stem is doing the triploid thing. all the other stems that are comming from those 3 nodes are normal 2 leaf growth but it does make the plant so much more bushy by having the extra 50% of growth. im at 1 week exactly of flowering. hoping it shows its sex very soon. keep an eye on my thread for updates and i will deffinatelly let you know if mine goes female.

either way i want to harvest the pollen if it is a male and try to get one to be female by breeding.

unfortunatelly i dont think this trait can be cloned. the only way i think it could be cloned is if tou top the plant and are able to clone that but you only get one shot. and if it dies your sol on the triploid. just a theory. im in no position to test that so if you can it would be awesome or if you have any links to someone that has done that i would love to read about it.

[dutc2006]

Okay, I have been wanting to update but have been stalling because I keep forgetting to get batteries for my camera and hate to not putup pics. Anyways the plant is still healthy enough, albeit a runt but its growth has changed. It doesn't have the same growth pattern after putting it into the flowerbox. On one of its sets of new growth it pushed two of the three fan leaves up above the third. Kinda weird looking. Pics to come tomorow.

[dutc2006]

Okay here are some more pics of my plant which I believe has "grown out" of its' triploid state. In the first pic I am trying to show the change in growth from three sets of leaves per node to two (sort of). Basically what happened was on the 2nd node one of the 3 leaves grew normally and the other two sort of grew together, like siamese twins if you will, sharing the same stem. These were the leaves that would normally have 3 leaves, in the 1st pic hopefully you can see how one leaf grew normally with 3 leaves and the 2 others that shared a stem grew 2 leafs each and shared a mutual 3rd. The siamese leaf is the one at the top of the 1st pic being pulled back by the dental floss. The 3rd leaf which they share as the 3rd is behind these and not visible in the pic. Yes I know this is strange and convoluted I hope you are following me, the pics may help. In the 2nd pic I try to show that there were in fact 3 leaves growing out of the first node's new growth. However, in between the "siamese twin" leaves' stem and the 3rd one which grew normal is new growth which I am focusing light on through LST, and seems to be normal 2 way growth, not 3 way. The other top seems to be growing 2 way instead of 3 way as well. It may be too early to tell but it seems like this one is not a true triploid, or perhaps putting it in the flower cycle prematurely altered it in some way. Or is this whorled phyllotaxy? ...maybe somebody more familiar with these could ID it for me, I hear both triploids and phyllotaxys tend to be male... Anyways this one is still a runt, its' sibling is about twice as tall now and has is working on its' 4th set of 7 leaves, the "triploid" is still pushing out its' 1st set of 7 leaves.

[whatuthinkin]

wow man thats some crazy shit lol. i think we should switch titles!!!! hahaha

anyways maybe it could be the stress from the 12/12 doing it. it looked identical to mine at the beginning.

if you check out my thread i found a triploid chute comming from the plant that i am about to clone. it was the only one that grew the 3 leaf. all the others were normal 2 leaf. very odd. but the top has continued with the 3 leaf, triploid feature.

and i think i have a female which if i do it might be a rare plant. i dont know. but deff wanting to breed it out if at all possible. even if i take a regular clone im sure it would eventually give me another 3 leaf stem since i got one from a node on this one. it would have the exact dna as this one.

[dutc2006]

yea man i just got finished catching up on your thread, your plant looks sweet, I cannot believe how much it has shot up since it seemed like it was growing so slow at first like mine. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you have a girl, good luck with it. Nice work on the fans BTW and I would wait to pump more nitrogen into your plant, most of the leaves look too forest green to be a nitrogen deficiency IMO.

[LBH]

Now that we've gotten past the life threatening, ultra primary concern of whether to call it a weed, an herb or whatever......

Cool plant. I've seen a few of those on here. They grow normally, produce normally, etc. Some babies are born with 6 fingers,....genetic stuff, they're still normal kids. Same with your plant.

Good luck with it!!

[Phoggy]

Originally Posted by RcX1215

Society coins phrases NOT the government you ignorant fool. Saying marijauna isn't a weed because it flowers has got to be by far one of the dumbest statements I've EVER heard. The definition of a weed classifies it by it's use not how it looks. I'm sitting on my porch and right now I see at LEAST 10 different flowering "herbs". We have use for the plant, but those that don't smoke it have all the right in the world to call it a weed. Do you know what it's called when you try to state something with absolutely no prior knowledge on the subject? It's called an idiot's opinion and so far most of the people that have posted here show no facts just plain ignorance. At least look the word up before you try acting intelligent.

The government doesn't coin phrases?????? Then you follow that up with ignorant fool???? Oh ya what classifies a plant as a weed is determined by its genetic makeup. The tissue that constructs the plant. Weeds have generally a base structure that is composed of a 4 carbon link base chain. So where is this definition of weed that your reading? I would also like to know the names of these 10 different flowering "herbs" because right now I smell a flowering plant of hot steamy bullshit. Do you know what it's called when you try to state something with absolutely no prior knowledge on the subject? I think I do, its called... Wait let me think..... oh ya ACTING LIKE YOU!!

[dutc2006]

Anyways, it appears that my plant is still pushing out triploid growth. some of the new growth got big enough to realize that it is still doing it. It's weird though because the top growth quit doing it and the place where triploid growth is coming out now is at a node point, pics to come soon...

[whatuthinkin]

thats good. maybe the 12/12 stress did something to it. on mine only my main stem and one stem from one of the first nodes is tripoid. interesting that its like this. dont know why or how only one would go triploid and the rest not.

anyways fyi my plant is female! just seen it last night and posted pics. so theres hope for you too!!!!