Flowering: CFL vs HPS Dilemma

[muzzie]

Ok I've read enough to know that most growers prefer HPS over CFL's for flowering. But with that said I still have a question.
I plan on doing a small grow (2-4 plants) in a 6 sq ft grow box. I will have a total of 16 cfl's for the grow and will have a minimum of 25,600 lumen for vegging and flowering (I may throw in some higher wattage bulbs if I have the money) . I plan on using daylight bulbs during vegging and replacing them with the appropriate kelvin rating for flowering.
With that said do the experts out there still think I would be better off going with HPS bulbs or will I have plenty of light using cfl's for such a small grow?
Thanks in advance for your help.

[dosboot]

metal halide for vegging, and hps for flowering stage is the way to go. many say that you can use an hps throughout if you can't afford a mh. there are mh lamps available that are sold with hps conversion bulbs at htg supply. i got one, and it is wonderful.

cfls don't penetrate the foliage as far, but many people use them with some success. this i know about cfls: never pay attention to equivalent watts. actual watts is what is important when growing mj with cfls. actual watts, and kelvin rating.

good luck to you.


P.S.
Luv your handle.

[TexarkanaTim]

HPS or MH is ideal, but can cause heat issues if you have a small area, like yours. If you have 16 CFLS, you should be fine. They will run a lot cooler and will be cheaper too.

[MrSmokesalot]

Originally Posted by dosboot

metal halide for vegging, and hps for flowering stage is the way to go. many say that you can use an hps throughout if you can't afford a mh. there are mh lamps available that are sold with hps conversion bulbs at htg supply. i got one, and it is wonderful.

cfls don't penetrate the foliage as far, but many people use them with some success. this i know about cfls: never pay attention to equivalent watts. actual watts is what is important when growing mj with cfls. actual watts, and kelvin rating.

good luck to you.


P.S.
Luv your handle.

sorry but who cares about the watts? the LUMENS is what is important and the kelvin rating. yes they don't penertrate but thats why u LST

CFL's save money and cause no heat :] thts just my two cents

[badger]

I have had great success with CFL's on my first grow. Lumens are what determines the overall yield and potency of the plant but CFL's are very customizable. You can really see great buds form on the lower nodes. Check my grow out. I have 11x42 watt 2700k CFL'S puttin out 31000 lumens. My buds are looking real good for week 3 12/12.

CFL's do run very hot though and they can burn the plants b/c you have to get them close. They take a lot more attention than an HPS and are less efficient (Lumens/watt) than HID lights (MH/HPS). They also have vary in temp throughout the day so you gotta be able to watch ur temps. You can also shut off only a few lights durring the day if your temps get too high whereas HPS you only have 1 bulb. CFL's=cutomizable HPS=easier to use and more efficient. Both can produce great buds. Good luck

[dosboot]

Um...wow.

Actual watts do matter. I'm not saying that lumens don't. Neither am I saying that a decent small grow can't be had with cfls.

Lots of beginning growers start off counting 13 watt cfl bulbs as 60 watts, because the package says they are equivalent to it in terms of light output. The actual watts, according to every expert I've read on the subject, count more than anything else claimed by the manufacturer, except for kelvin rating. That was more what I was addressing.

As far as LST'ing, I personally do that to get more colas and keep the canopy lower.


But hey, as you like it. Live and learn. I did, and it's good for you.


Peace, out.

[MrSmokesalot]

Originally Posted by dosboot

Um...wow.

Actual watts do matter. I'm not saying that lumens don't. Neither am I saying that a decent small grow can't be had with cfls.

Lots of beginning growers start off counting 13 watt cfl bulbs as 60 watts, because the package says they are equivalent to it in terms of light output. The actual watts, according to every expert I've read on the subject, count more than anything else claimed by the manufacturer, except for kelvin rating. That was more what I was addressing.

As you like it. Live and learn. I did, and it's good for you.


Peace, out.

lol well i knw tht its the actual wattage tht matters..
and i would say lumen output is by far more important than wattage anyday.

[badger]

Ill set the record strait between wattage and lumens.

Wattage is the energy drawn by the bulb. This is the amount of electricity the bulb is carrying from the wall outlet. This is how you electric company determines how much to charge you. It is directly related to how strong the bulb is. CFL's get confusing because they're whole purpose is an energy saving alternative. They will put two different wattage's on the package. The higher one represents the equivalent wattage used by a standard incandescent bulb to produce the same light intensity as the CFL in question. The lower wattage is the actual wattage the CFL is using from the wall outlet it is plugged into. This is why CFL's are the "eco friendly alternative" to incandescents because they can produce the same amount of light energy as a comparable incandescent bulb using much less energy and thus eco friendly

Wattage although related to bulb strength is not the measure of how much energy it is producing.

Lumens on the other hand are a measure of light output by the bulb. This number will indicate how strong the bulb's light is. This is the value that is important when considering how much light is feeding your plants. HID are very popular because they can produce large amounts of lumens using relatively low wattage. Thus for less electricity (wattage) you can get more energy output (lumens).

In conclusion LUMENS are what determine how much light energy (food) your plants are getting. Wattage is simply a measure of the electricity being drawn from the bulb to produce that light energy.

These two values are directly related so saying that more watts will make higher yields is a true statement. This is because the more watts you have, the more lumens will be produced. This is also the reasoning behind why the efficiency reading of a grow is determined in Grams/Watt. This is because the Watts are what cost money and you want to determine how much bud you're getting for how much money you are paying in electricity.

[MrSmokesalot]

thanks + rep

[dosboot]

Badger, you didn't say one thing that I didn't already know. Like I said, actual watts and kelvin rating matter more than any other claim made by the manufacturer when it comes to cfls and growing bud, including what they claim about lumens. With actual watts (speaking of cfls here) come the associated number of lumens, that is obvious. But manufacturers (and the marketers they hire) sometimes play free with math.

Now if you were addressing someone else, then by all means. My apologies.

Now I'm really off to bed. Peace.

[DankNStanky420]

Originally Posted by muzzie

Ok I've read enough to know that most growers prefer HPS over CFL's for flowering. But with that said I still have a question.
I plan on doing a small grow (2-4 plants) in a 6 sq ft grow box. I will have a total of 16 cfl's for the grow and will have a minimum of 25,600 lumen for vegging and flowering (I may throw in some higher wattage bulbs if I have the money) . I plan on using daylight bulbs during vegging and replacing them with the appropriate kelvin rating for flowering.
With that said do the experts out there still think I would be better off going with HPS bulbs or will I have plenty of light using cfl's for such a small grow?
Thanks in advance for your help.

One 1000 watt HPS puts off somwhere around 145,000 lumens. so id say go with it

[toastybiz]

Originally Posted by badger

HID are very popular because they can produce large amounts of lumens using relatively low wattage. Thus for less electricity (wattage) you can get more energy output (lumens).

Very true. So why are you using CFLs that produce 31,000 lumens for 462 watts, when a HPS will deliver 50,000 lumens for 400 watts?

Originally Posted by badger

In conclusion LUMENS are what determine how much light energy (food) your plants are getting. Wattage is simply a measure of the electricity being drawn from the bulb to produce that light energy.

This is where your logic makes an unfounded leap. Unfortunately, lumens is not a measure of the light energy your plants are getting. Lumens actually is a standardized measurement designed for comparing one bulb to another. Specifically, lumens is the amount of light that covers a one square foot area at a distance of one foot. So your statement is true IF you keep all bulbs you are comparing the same distance away from the plants. But actual light intensity reaching an object is a function of both the light output and the distance to the object (plants). So you have to factor in distance to be able to evaluate which grow light is right for your setup, with distance being limited largely by heat management.

[toastybiz]

To the OP, your plan is not bad, but I would recommend you look to HID with CFL supplements. I have a grow box nearly the same size (2.5x2.5 footprint) and run a 250w MH/HPS and supplement with 8x23w CFLs, works great. Comparing your idea to mine, we both have 8 CFLs, from there I would much prefer adding that HID than the 8 additional CFLs you are thinking about.