White Widow Grow- Generic Potting Soil vs. Miricle Grow

SmknVTEC · #1 (**permalink**) 09-24-2007, 08:04 AM

High Folks.

Those of you who know me know that I am against Miricle Grow Soil with time release ferts because my first two grows were ruined by that and similar soils [see PGAMG in my sig]. Many people argue and say that inexperienced growers screw up their own grows and MG is just an innocent bystander.

Well, I now have almost five years of indoor soil growing experience so, I figure I should give it another try to prove what I already know.

I will be starting off with four White Widow seeds from Gypsy Nirvana. There will be three in my generic potting soil that I have used ever since the initial disasters and one of the beloved $10 seeds will be wasted ahem used in the name of science, in MG vegetable and flower soil that "feeds up to three months".

First thing I noticed was how clumpy and heavy the MG Soil is compared to the other soil. This is why drainage is often a problem and I have opted to NOT use additional perlite because a lot of peeps starting off don't know or want to use it.

Secondly, by doing a run-off test from the initial watering prior to putting in the seed, I noticed that the three pots with generic soil gave a run-off pH between 6.5-6.8. That was with nothing added to my tap water which by the way is at about 7.15 pH. The MG pot however was giving me a reading of 7.2. This was strange and counter-intuitive to me because chemical nutes should lower the pH not raise it; at least in theory.

So right off the bat, before I even put the seed in, I had to add the pH downer to get it to 6.5. It actually took me a few pitchers of water to lower it because the shit would just not lower. So, it basically accomplished a flush before I even got the seed in which was admittedly frustrating because it would just not lower. The last pitcher of water I gave it was pH at about 6.0.

Third thing was I only saw a few tiny little fert balls so picking them out in an attempt to stop over fertilizing I think would be a waste. The soil itself must have fertilizer as well.

Other stats:
8" pots to start followed by three gallon pots to finish.
400 watt MH for veg 400 watt Hortilux HPS for flower
About one month for veg 18/6 [no 24/7 to start because using MH instead of CFL]
Topping/tipping
Fox Farm three pack [organic] for food
One female will be dedicated as a cloning mother

As we all know WW is probably the most sensitive strain to fertilizer so if this soil works on these it will work for anything. As a footnote, I had a few WW's that got hungry at week two of life so I fed them then and they were fine. This is also early for feeding and I never have needed to feed that early. Maybe it was the MH light I used for the first time?

Anyway, I won't feed the one in MG until it needs it which will probably between mid flowering to never.

Stay tuned for pictures and I will put them in the soil after clicking this reply button.

SmknVTEC · #2 (**permalink**) 09-27-2007, 06:36 AM

Germination complete.
400 watt MH fired up 18/6.

gonejah17 · #3 (**permalink**) 10-03-2007, 06:01 AM

Im watching

SmknVTEC · #4 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 06:31 AM

Cool welcome gonejah17.
I think today would be about day 7 and interestingly the seedlings seem a little stretched. I wonder if it is the MH. I usually just start with the hortilux hps which is 55,000 lumens vs. the 400 mh's 36,000 lumens. I wonder if the HPS is better for them especially with the extra blue that the hortuilux bulb has.

No matter I will keep them under the MH for now and get pics up tomorrow of the plants.

I also have some basil and peppers rooting in my aeroponic cloner which is a pain because the pH does fluctuate some.

Oh and the Miricle grow plant still looks normal. I give it another two weeks before it gets burnt. Maybe me watching and adjusting the pH will keep her green. We will see.

gonejah17 · #5 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 03:54 PM

yeah I bet that HPS will be better, especially one with some blue . . .

Ive been wondering the same thing, I.E. if I should switch to HPS for veg. its a tricky think lol this color spetrum vs lumen output situation

Sloppy G · #6 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 10:37 PM

Yo, smknv, I say that you posted something about WW being real sensitive to soil.

Well, I got a 3 week WW seedling that just recently started turning really yellow, but it still looks healthy otherwise. It is in Ocean Forest soil, and it's under a 400W HPS set on 24-0. I'll switch to 18-6 this weekend, I just dont have my grow area light proof enough yet, so it would be pointless to have the light switching off every night.

Do you have any expert ideas of what it could be? or should I just sit tight and wait?

---

Sorry for the off-topic question tho, I've read the thread, and it should be real interesting to see what happens. I'm kinda running that experiment right now too :-), not with my WW plant tho.

SmknVTEC · #7 (**permalink**) 10-05-2007, 01:18 AM

Hey sloppy. Hard to tell just yet. It's either starting N deficiency [unlikely with that soil] or nute toxicity [more likely with the soil]. Lets wait a bit and see if any necrosis starts on the leaves.

The MG soil I have does not have those yellow fert balls. Just thought I would mention that.

SmknVTEC · #8 (**permalink**) 10-06-2007, 11:50 PM

Almost 2 weeks old here and they look pretty good.
The MG plant was off on pH at 7.2 run-off and 7.15 soil. I adjusted it back into range.
All other three in generic soil hold pH of about 6.8 w/no adjustments.
MG soil plant is the one in foreground [front].

gonejah17 · #9 (**permalink**) 10-07-2007, 11:07 AM

lookin good vtec

yo can u post a pic of the ph tester u use man I just got this BUNK ass one and I need to get one that works now

big_milsy · #10 (**permalink**) 10-07-2007, 11:47 AM

This is a good experiment

Im very interested to see how the MG soil will affect the grow as I have heard alot about how it shouldnt be used in soil grows. Seeing the result of this test with my own eyes is something I look forward too

Keep it up bro!

-Milsy

calichakra · #11 (**permalink**) 10-07-2007, 03:30 PM

ya, I've always been warned to steer clear of mg likes its the narcos. But I've never seen why, thanks for dedicating a brave solider V.

smalltimetoker · #12 (**permalink**) 10-07-2007, 05:37 PM

i'm growing in mg time release potting soil whats wrong with it. my plants are all a nice healthy green. i just started flowering

mt308 · #13 (**permalink**) 10-07-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smalltimetoker

i'm growing in mg time release potting soil whats wrong with it. my plants are all a nice healthy green. i just started flowering

some will say that the amount of nutrients released from time-release fert. will burn or even kill a pot plant, especially when it's very young. Once a plant gets older I would think its less susceptible to this. SmknVTECH says that HID lights will make the time-release release over a very short time periods, killing plants. But it has been successfully used before, it WILL work, just maybe with poorer results.

gonejah17 · #14 (**permalink**) 10-08-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smalltimetoker

i'm growing in mg time release potting soil whats wrong with it. my plants are all a nice healthy green. i just started flowering

got any pics of ur MG plants man????

Segue · #15 (**permalink**) 10-09-2007, 04:21 AM

Smkn, I'm happy to see a side-by-side from a knowledgeable grower. I'm curious what the results will be.

There are a lot of horror stories about MG time-release, but there are a lot of horror stories about EVERY aspect of growing. It's like an MJ-episode of Myth Busters!

I'll definitely keep an eye on this.

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#1 (permalink) 09-24-2007, 08:04 AM
SmknVTEC Moderator Extraordinaire Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 8,076	White Widow Grow- Generic Potting Soil vs. Miricle Grow High Folks. Those of you who know me know that I am against Miricle Grow Soil with time release ferts because my first two grows were ruined by that and similar soils [see PGAMG in my sig]. Many people argue and say that inexperienced growers screw up their own grows and MG is just an innocent bystander. Well, I now have almost five years of indoor soil growing experience so, I figure I should give it another try to prove what I already know. I will be starting off with four White Widow seeds from Gypsy Nirvana. There will be three in my generic potting soil that I have used ever since the initial disasters and one of the beloved $10 seeds will be wasted ahem used in the name of science, in MG vegetable and flower soil that "feeds up to three months". First thing I noticed was how clumpy and heavy the MG Soil is compared to the other soil. This is why drainage is often a problem and I have opted to NOT use additional perlite because a lot of peeps starting off don't know or want to use it. Secondly, by doing a run-off test from the initial watering prior to putting in the seed, I noticed that the three pots with generic soil gave a run-off pH between 6.5-6.8. That was with nothing added to my tap water which by the way is at about 7.15 pH. The MG pot however was giving me a reading of 7.2. This was strange and counter-intuitive to me because chemical nutes should lower the pH not raise it; at least in theory. So right off the bat, before I even put the seed in, I had to add the pH downer to get it to 6.5. It actually took me a few pitchers of water to lower it because the shit would just not lower. So, it basically accomplished a flush before I even got the seed in which was admittedly frustrating because it would just not lower. The last pitcher of water I gave it was pH at about 6.0. Third thing was I only saw a few tiny little fert balls so picking them out in an attempt to stop over fertilizing I think would be a waste. The soil itself must have fertilizer as well. Other stats: 8" pots to start followed by three gallon pots to finish. 400 watt MH for veg 400 watt Hortilux HPS for flower About one month for veg 18/6 [no 24/7 to start because using MH instead of CFL] Topping/tipping Fox Farm three pack [organic] for food One female will be dedicated as a cloning mother As we all know WW is probably the most sensitive strain to fertilizer so if this soil works on these it will work for anything. As a footnote, I had a few WW's that got hungry at week two of life so I fed them then and they were fine. This is also early for feeding and I never have needed to feed that early. Maybe it was the MH light I used for the first time? Anyway, I won't feed the one in MG until it needs it which will probably between mid flowering to never. Stay tuned for pictures and I will put them in the soil after clicking this reply button. __________________ "I build cars for young men that only old men can afford"- Enzo Ferrari (1898-1988) LED Thread PGAMG Thread MG vs. Generic Soil Current and Legit Seedbanks GC Forum Rules

#2 (permalink) 09-27-2007, 06:36 AM
SmknVTEC Moderator Extraordinaire Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 8,076	Germination complete. 400 watt MH fired up 18/6. __________________ "I build cars for young men that only old men can afford"- Enzo Ferrari (1898-1988) LED Thread PGAMG Thread MG vs. Generic Soil Current and Legit Seedbanks GC Forum Rules

#3 (permalink) 10-03-2007, 06:01 AM
gonejah17 Certified Blunt Doctor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Outside of the Box Posts: 4,067	Im watching __________________ 1st , 2nd ,STASH , DIY HEAVEN , LUCAS THREAD

#4 (permalink) 10-04-2007, 06:31 AM
SmknVTEC Moderator Extraordinaire Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 8,076	Cool welcome gonejah17. I think today would be about day 7 and interestingly the seedlings seem a little stretched. I wonder if it is the MH. I usually just start with the hortilux hps which is 55,000 lumens vs. the 400 mh's 36,000 lumens. I wonder if the HPS is better for them especially with the extra blue that the hortuilux bulb has. No matter I will keep them under the MH for now and get pics up tomorrow of the plants. I also have some basil and peppers rooting in my aeroponic cloner which is a pain because the pH does fluctuate some. Oh and the Miricle grow plant still looks normal. I give it another two weeks before it gets burnt. Maybe me watching and adjusting the pH will keep her green. We will see. __________________ "I build cars for young men that only old men can afford"- Enzo Ferrari (1898-1988) LED Thread PGAMG Thread MG vs. Generic Soil Current and Legit Seedbanks GC Forum Rules

#5 (permalink) 10-04-2007, 03:54 PM
gonejah17 Certified Blunt Doctor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Outside of the Box Posts: 4,067	yeah I bet that HPS will be better, especially one with some blue . . . Ive been wondering the same thing, I.E. if I should switch to HPS for veg. its a tricky think lol this color spetrum vs lumen output situation __________________ 1st , 2nd ,STASH , DIY HEAVEN , LUCAS THREAD

#6 (permalink) 10-04-2007, 10:37 PM
Sloppy G A REAL G Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 308	Yo, smknv, I say that you posted something about WW being real sensitive to soil. Well, I got a 3 week WW seedling that just recently started turning really yellow, but it still looks healthy otherwise. It is in Ocean Forest soil, and it's under a 400W HPS set on 24-0. I'll switch to 18-6 this weekend, I just dont have my grow area light proof enough yet, so it would be pointless to have the light switching off every night. Do you have any expert ideas of what it could be? or should I just sit tight and wait? --- Sorry for the off-topic question tho, I've read the thread, and it should be real interesting to see what happens. I'm kinda running that experiment right now too :-), not with my WW plant tho. __________________ SLOPPY G'S SOPHOMORE GROW JORNAL CannabisSeeds.com Review Last edited by Sloppy G; 10-04-2007 at 10:47 PM.

#7 (permalink) 10-05-2007, 01:18 AM
SmknVTEC Moderator Extraordinaire Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 8,076	Hey sloppy. Hard to tell just yet. It's either starting N deficiency [unlikely with that soil] or nute toxicity [more likely with the soil]. Lets wait a bit and see if any necrosis starts on the leaves. The MG soil I have does not have those yellow fert balls. Just thought I would mention that. __________________ "I build cars for young men that only old men can afford"- Enzo Ferrari (1898-1988) LED Thread PGAMG Thread MG vs. Generic Soil Current and Legit Seedbanks GC Forum Rules

#9 (permalink) 10-07-2007, 11:07 AM
gonejah17 Certified Blunt Doctor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Outside of the Box Posts: 4,067	lookin good vtec yo can u post a pic of the ph tester u use man I just got this BUNK ass one and I need to get one that works now __________________ 1st , 2nd ,STASH , DIY HEAVEN , LUCAS THREAD

#10 (permalink) 10-07-2007, 11:47 AM
big_milsy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 78	This is a good experiment Im very interested to see how the MG soil will affect the grow as I have heard alot about how it shouldnt be used in soil grows. Seeing the result of this test with my own eyes is something I look forward too Keep it up bro! -Milsy

#11 (permalink) 10-07-2007, 03:30 PM
calichakra The Stoned Fox. Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 69	ya, I've always been warned to steer clear of mg likes its the narcos. But I've never seen why, thanks for dedicating a brave solider V.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

#12 (permalink) 10-07-2007, 05:37 PM
smalltimetoker Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 55	i'm growing in mg time release potting soil whats wrong with it. my plants are all a nice healthy green. i just started flowering

#15 (permalink) 10-09-2007, 04:21 AM
Segue Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 173	Smkn, I'm happy to see a side-by-side from a knowledgeable grower. I'm curious what the results will be. There are a lot of horror stories about MG time-release, but there are a lot of horror stories about EVERY aspect of growing. It's like an MJ-episode of Myth Busters! I'll definitely keep an eye on this.