Soil growers only topic.

[Studorspud]

This is something you dont see every day, a topic for soil growers only. On the pro's and con's list i did when i first started growing i didnt put in the cons side the waste soil that is produced nor did i think about how to get rid of this waste in large amounts . At the moment im paranoid about putting my used soil in the bins (for those in the uk, i dont trust the green bin scheme) and im even worse at taking it out of the house and taking it somewhere.

So i guess my long drawn out question is how do you guys get rid of your used soil?


Ciao.
Spud.

[Cannibalistixx]

I would:

A) put the soil in black trash bags and just throw it away.

B) find some forest and drive your soil there and dump it.

C) Bring it to your local nursery and ask them where to get rid of soil. I doubt u can tell what kind of plant was growing with just the root system and a small stalk.

[Anony]

Its soil, gotta be one of the easiest things to get rid of ever concidering this earth is in abundance of it. You could throw that crap in a stream and say "GAWN!" Like old james.

[UKCRONICGROWER]

LOL i think you got a bad case of the paranoia there lol

[-mu]

A better idea...

Instead of all this messing about with pots, construct a good sized flower bed (increased yields and potency, right off the bat), fill it, and then keep the soil alive. Don't throw it out, ammend it every season, instead. Keep on using it.

Do farmers throw away their top-soil every year? No.

-mu

[Studorspud]

Hey thanks to you lot that replied.

UKCHRONICGROWER, you must know the paranoia every uk growers going through at the moment, just the busts having been gettin closer and closer to my gaff. Paranoia will kill me one day if i continue to grow but i think im probably just a little on the cautious side at the mo and i keep meeting new hurdles that needs stealth action!

Cannabalistix and Anony, I will go for a drive tonight and throw my shit into the river, seems like a decent way of dumping my waste.

-Mu, id like to know more about the active soil shit you was rambling on about, Do you know any websites/threads with info?

Ill catch ya all soon.
Stud (i got laid last night so no way can i be spud today)lol

[-mu]

I gave a clue in my last post; the question about farmers and their topsoil is a paraphrase of a classic 3LB quote. I have a lot to say about soil, but rather than go off on one (again), here's a copy of a 3LB article originally posted on OG some years back, which y'all might find interesting...

Originally Posted by 3LB

soil heresy by the 3LB

We are about to commit heresy and tell people that we ALWAYS re-use our soil. No soil has left the garden's of the three_little_birds since before the turn of the millennium! Some growers will tell folks to throw out their soil after every grow, and we've known plenty of commercial growers that happily do that to make sure they do not have pest or nutrient problems. Maybe that even is the best solution for your grow, we can't say for sure, as always your mileage may vary. We are poor simple medical users (and aging hippies, etc.), and spending something like $20 for a bag of FoxFarm soil rubbed us wrong! With our container system it might take 2 full bags of that soil for 3 plants!

Now again . . . someone who is involved in commercial (rather than personal medical) production might not be so inclined to bother with making sure their soils stay healthy and all the work we go through to ensure our soil's health, but for us it is a labor of love and we feel our results speak for themselves.

Anyway, like we said, our soil never leaves our grow, it has all been recycled to the point that we could not even begin to tell you how many times it's been through our system! A good commercial potting mix has always been the base for our soil. We look for a product which is 100% organic, and recommend that you avoid ALL chemical salt ferts like the plague if you value your soil health. This especially includes timed-released chem ferts like osmocote! Depending on what we have found for soil, we go from there. Some cheap organic soil mixes contain little more than peat, pearlite, and dolomite lime. These absolutely need amending to start off. Some organic soil mixes are much more complete and need little or no amending for starters.

Organic mushroom compost is certainly one of the hot soil mediums these days, and we've certainly had great success mixing it in with our soil remixes to add fresh organic matter. We can't however comment on it's longer terms effects in soil remixes. Since we found a cheap source of mushroom compost, we have also been top-dressing our plants with it almost exclusively, so we imagine that we will soon discover if remixing the ‘shroom compost will have any detrimental effects.

Once through it's first grow (the plants fed 100% organic with earth juice, teas, fish ferts, and liquid kelp) our container of soil has it's root balls pulled and it is dumped into a very large rubbermaid container w/ a lid (50 gallon container) These container's are longer than our 2x3 growing containers, so with 2 people lifting and dumping, it's not too hard to keep this step neat. Each bin can actually hold more than the contents from a single grow-container (2 grow-containers of soil will actually fit, but this makes mixing in amendments very difficult and messy.) Now we proceed to give back to our soil mix what our plants have taken (and then some.) We get out our kelp meal, bone meal, blood meal, greensand, rock phosphate, diatomaceous earth, and dolomite lime and get mixing. Depending on the soil's condition this is also where we might add a little more perlite if soil compaction looks to be a potential problem.

Folks are going to ask us how much of these different supplements we add, and the only honest answer we can give is - it depends! If the plants we'd raised previously in that particular container had shown any signs of being short on a major nutrient N–P-K - it's not too hard to throw in an extra cup or two of the appropriate organic supplement (Blood meal / Alfalfa meal for N - Bone meal / rock phosphate for P - kelp meal / greensand for K and other micro nutrients.) A nice full 16 oz plastic cup of each of the prior mentioned ingredients would be our baseline for supplementing this round of soil re-mix. We will generally double this amount if any nutrient shortage has shown. . .

The greensand and rock phosphate are very slow to dissolve and be absorbed by plants, and are not normally used by many indoor container gardeners. Their slow release is what helps to make our system work! They will still be in our soil for the next couple of grows, doing their part for our soil health. This is the point where we would also add some of our own compost (assuming there is some finished and ready - if not some mushroom compost has proven to work.) Our compost is made from the usual standards, household veggie food scraps and such, with the addition of all our used grow scraps. Fan leaf, chopped stems, and the "leftover's" from processing by bubble bag or tumbling are all composted and returned to our soil.

Now we will wet this whole mix down lightly and let it "cook" for a spell. We have three large bins like this for soil remixing and composting. Folks always want us to be specific on amounts and times, and we do a lot of this by feel, so when we say we let the soil cook for a "spell" - how long depends on feel and need! The minimum time our soil sits is two weeks, and it's sat waiting for use for a couple months like this during slower times in our grow. This time gives soil bacteria a chance to work and make the various organic amendments more quickly and easily available for our plants. We use this soil again for another grow, watering with our usual array of teas, Earth Juice, etc. If needed, containers are top-dressed with compost (our own or mushroom compost depending on availability) as any soil settling occurs.
Upon yet another successful harvest, the soil is reconditioned again. Once we reached our third mix of soil, we cut back on the soil amendments. The greensand and rock phosphate are still working from the last re-mix so we don't need to add any more of them for sure. What remains in your soil at this point in terms of nitrogen and such may depend on your strain, some strains are much more greedy for some nutrients. So if our plants haven't shown any signs of yellowing as they mature, we figure there is nitrogen enough in the soil for the next round (at least to get started - we can add more N on the fly with fish ferts and teas if needed) and no blood meal is added. If yellowing has occurred then blood meal is added again. Kelp meal is usually added again since many of the major liquid organic ferts seem a little short on potassium, and also because we like the micro nutrients kelp meal provides to our plants. Dolomite lime will probably be necessary again too, and it's possible your soil will need even more this time than last. Any peat in the soil adds acidity as it decomposes, and the lime balances this as well as providing magnesium. After the standard 15 - 30 days of standing moistened waiting for use this soil is used still another time. Now our soil has grown 4 crops of herbs and is still going and growing strong. At this point, we have started plants in our soil remixes directly alongside plants in fresh potting soil, just to make sure our mix wasn't subtly stunting our plants.

The plants grown in our 4th and 5th generation soil remix did far better than those directly alongside grown in fresh from the bag FoxFarm OceanForest potting soil! Because our garden is a continuous harvest setup, once we are to our 4th or 5th remix, it's starting to get hard to keep track of exactly what soil has been remixed where, since half used bins of remixes are often dumped together to make room for another round of used soil coming from the garden. So we simply continue adding amendments by feel as needed.

This is how the three little birds use soil. We know we break the rule we have all been told to follow - to never reuse soil. Even those "radicals" we have seen reusing soil, have always described letting their soil go out to their veggie gardens or flower beds after 3 or 4 grows. We decided to push the envelope and see how far we could take it . . .
We still haven't found a limit for the number of times we remix our soil, and our harvests and plant vigor keep improving.

Oh, just to add another bit of heresy, you may have noticed our container grows suspended above the floor on wheeled furniture movers. It's a very convenient way to keep the plants in larger containers mobile. . . but you also must realize then (if you think about it) that out grow containers have NO drainage. Our soil mix, which is now has been remixed double digit times, has NEVER been flushed! We warned you all at the start of this post that some might consider it heresy . . . And we can’t even begin to tell you how we can break these rules and get better results than average - but it works for us and we wanted to let folks judge for themselves. (Eds note: 3LB claimed to regularly get above 2g/watt as well as reaching high marks of 4g/watt!, and they posted the photos to back it up. If anyone has any of these photos or posts please add them to this thread)

one thing we might add - we certainly would not remix soil from any containers where we'd had a bug or disease problem - even getting bud mold would be enough for us to say - no thanks to a soil remix

we were discussing this among "the birds" the other nite - and one line that a little bird said comes to mind . . . "Farmer's don't strip their topsoil after a harvest - or even a few - in fact their soil is their most precious commodity - why should it be different for indoor gardening as long as proper care is taken to build healthy soil?"

When I decided to move my growing indoors, I found the 3LB stuff to be both informative and inspirational, and bang-on-the-nail, imho.

I've spoken to a lot of growers and farmers about this over the last few months, and everything 3LB says rings true. Soil is ALIVE. Spending all that time and care building a powerful, diverse micro-herd and then throwing it all away, looks like insanty to me.

And anyway, if I chucked my soil in the river, all the worms would drown!

-mu

[Cap-N-Krunch]

I know this is way late, but I've been reading up on organic grows and Mu you've got me interested. You said in another post you have approx 200L for an indoor flower bed to grow. This allows you to have a miniature ecosystem with instects and fungus galore. I like the sound of this. My question is this: I'm working out of a closet. Can I do this in a closet? Just one ginormous tub o' stuff? Also, how do you flush your plants at the end of flowering? Do you have some sort of an overfill drainage system or something?

That's about 50 gallons or so? How many plants do you grow in there and how big of a space is that? Thanks for your help!

Cap

[-mu]

And this is way later! ...

Cap-N-Krunch, kudos for reading and referring to my "other posts", good work! I probably wouldn't have dug this up after so long if you hadn't gone to such trouble. Though, I might have.

I'm working out of a closet. Can I do this in a closet? Just one ginormous tub o' stuff?

You could do it anywhere. A closet sounds great. So long as you have, say 7.5" of soil in there, yjust make it as big as possible.

Also, how do you flush your plants at the end of flowering? Do you have some sort of an overfill drainage system or something?

Nope. I have no drainage whatsoever. After a while you get a pretty good handle on the volume of water the thing takes (15-22L/week), and I also recently got a moisture meter - very handy.

I also don't "flush" at the end of flowering. Though the compost teas get more diluted towards the end, and perhaps the final watering might be just water. Bottom line is, if you are growing 100% deep organic, there's nothing to wash out; the soil is a storehouse of *potential* nutrition, not a "medium filled with nutrients". When the plants don't need any more stuff, they'll stop asking the soil for it (i.e. stop sending complex sugar messages to the soil bacteria).

Anyway, the taste is so good, I'm not about to start messing with that.

That's about 50 gallons or so? How many plants do you grow in there and how big of a space is that? Thanks for your help!

Size-wise, my flower bed is just over three feet, by two and a half. Number of plants depends on how long you veg them. The first time around, I had six plants in there, the recent harvest (last night!) was just three plants, but the screen was well filled - they had been vegging for almost six weeks.

You could put a dozen smaller plants in there easily, or fill the screen with just one plant. Everything I do is timed around harvesting for the correct Moon phase, so I judge the number of plants to put in there, by how long before I switch them to flower. My next batch will go ten weeks in flower, so I'm looking to switch them at the next new moon. But as that's less than 11 days away, I'll likely plant only two or three plants, and let them veg for five weeks, catch the next new moon.

If I was in a hurry, I could drop six clones in there tomorrow, veg them for 9 days, and then go 12/12 on the 11th, but I'm not.

-mu